Antiquity confers solemnity in shape of Latin mass

[JKirkLVNV]

You’re right. It was Vatican II which asked/insisted/required that Latin be retained in the liturgy. But the document also had time bombs.

Pope John XXIII, who called the council, wrote this beautiful encyclical on Latin.

But the Council did not and does not have final authority over the Liturgy. The Holy Father does and the use of the local languages or their exclusion is within his competence. The Mass in the language of the locale exists leigitimately, on the Pope’s authority.

 

[ibkc]

That’s the way I personally think it ought to be. “Participation” doesn’t mean everyone has a job (I get impatient sometimes with Offeratory Procession, though I understand what it’s suppposed to represent), but we ought to be able to make the response instead of an altar server making it for us.

But even in a high mass which is not formally a dialogue mass, there’s nothing to stop you from saying the responses along with the servers.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

But even in a high mass which is not formally a dialogue mass, there’s nothing to stop you from saying the responses along with the servers.

Really? I didn’t know that. Audibly? Or would one get dirty looks? Seriously, I don’t know.

 

[brotherhrolf]

All of the responses which are correct for a congregation today, I grew up with and was perfectly able to respond to in Latin - when I was out in the congregation which wasn’t often since I was an altar boy until 1968.

There were no Low Masses at my Catholic boy’s high school. All of our school Masses were high Masses and all of us responded in Latin.

There are way too many misconceptions about the folks “out in the pews” and the TLM. Way too many. I do not buy into the myth that “we didn’t know what was going on” or “we said our rosary” or any of the other myths which have been perpetuated by people my age who, for whatever reasons, “picked up the ball and ran with it” in 1967.

We submitted to the magesterium. My class held its 40th reunion last May. The same three guys who were responsible for the guitars and Simon and Garfunkle at our graduation Mass are still playing guitars at alumni Masses. I did not agree with them in 1969 and I do not agree with them today.

I am not alone in my feelings.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Nonsense. We are all part of the Church, aren’t we? God never told us that we couldn’t do some studying on our own. Where there’s a difference of opinion, we can discuss those differences without harming our faith or integrity with other humans, one would hope.

Nonesense nothing. There is the the teaching Church and the taught Church, the Church who shepherds and the Church who is shepherded. We’re entitled to our opinions on matters of discipline, surely, but in the end, we either obey or we don’t.
My point that it is the Church’s interpretation of Quo Primum or the documents of Trent that is what matters is self-evident from a classic (indeed, a “traditional”) Catholic mindset and understanding. That interpretation differs from that proposed by some “traditionalists.”

 

[ibkc]

Really? I didn’t know that. Audibly? Or would one get dirty looks? Seriously, I don’t know.

Well I wouldn’t adivse being so loud about it that it’s disruptive or show-offy, but as long as some discretion is exercised, I can’t imagine why it would be a problem.

 

[ProVobis]

There is the the teaching Church and the taught Church, the Church who shepherds and the Church who is shepherded. We’re entitled to our opinions on matters of discipline, surely, but in the end, we either obey or we don’t.

In the end, we stand before God without the shepherds, the bishops, the priests, our parents, (other) traditionalists, or the Pope at our side. We owe it to ourselves to make sure what is presented us as Truth is in fact the Truth. We don’t want our obedience to be blind obedience.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Well I wouldn’t adivse being so loud about it that it’s disruptive or show-offy, but as long as some discretion is exercised, I can’t imagine why it would be a problem.

I hate that anyway. I find myself harboring rebellious thoughts when, as has happened on occasion, the priest makes a “funny” and says,“I can’t hear you” or “Boy, that wasn’t very enthusiastic!” I prefer a quiet response, I just think that WE should make it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

In the end, we stand before God without the shepherds, the bishops, the priests, our parents, (other) traditionalists, or the Pope at our side. We owe it to ourselves to make sure what is presented us as Truth is in fact the Truth. We don’t want our obedience to be blind obedience.

No, but we are called to think with the mind of the Church (and yes, the whole of the Church’s mind, not just the bit illuminated by Vatican II) and to submit to Her will. Various saints to whom the Holy One or the Blessed Mother have appeared and been given certain tasks by Them often did not accomplish Their Will with the alacrity one might expect, because the Church cautiously directed them to do otherwise or to do nothing at all for the time being, while She weighed the directive. Those saints were praise by Our Lord and Lady for their obedience.

Saint Augustine said that he would not believe the Gospel save the authority of the Catholic Church moved him to do so.

No Pope and no Council can bind future popes or councils on matters of discipline.