Anxiety at the Ordinary Form

[TrueLight]

Pardon my ignorance, and please understand that this is an honest question- I would appreciate it if the answers to this might be polite.

Is it really “illicit” for the congregation to hold their hands in the “orans” position during the Our Father? Do the rubrics actually say not to? It helps me to make gestures like this and like gently beating my breast during the Kyrie. I appreciate being able to use my body in ways that our discreet to enter into the prayer. I seriously doubt anyone should be watching me closely enough to be bothered by it.

Not at all. From the answers I’ve seen on this forum, there is nothing that dictates how the laity should position their hands.

It’s just that it’s not really done in the traditional latin mass. At least not that I have seen.

Others, feel free to chime in – especially our liturgical experts.

 

[adstrinity]

The orans position is reserved for the priest BECAUSE, he is an Alter Christus and looking at him should remind the parishoners of Jesus. Looking at the priest praying using this posture calls to mind Jesus on the Cross. By the congregation doing this, it is bluring the lines between priest and laity.

Answer from The Reverend Know-It-All. I suggest the read: rev-know-it-all.com/2008/2008—06-08.html

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Thanks for the answers!

What about the priestly office of all the baptized? I am not trying to be argumentative, just thinking that I am part of the Body of Christ too and His Spirit animates me also and I am supposed to offer my body as a living sacrifice too…not at all that I can forgive sins or do other specifically ministerial priestly acts…but praying with my palms raised hardly seems a step in that direction…

 

[TrueLight]

Thanks for the answers!

What about the priestly office of all the baptized? I am not trying to be argumentative, just thinking that I am part of the Body of Christ too and His Spirit animates me also and I am supposed to offer my body as a living sacrifice too…not at all that I can forgive sins or do other specifically ministerial priestly acts…but praying with my palms raised hardly seems a step in that direction…

Elizabeth, you will find there are different opinions on the Orans position.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

The orans position is reserved for the priest BECAUSE, he is an Alter Christus and looking at him should remind the parishoners of Jesus. Looking at the priest praying using this posture calls to mind Jesus on the Cross. By the congregation doing this, it is bluring the lines between priest and laity.

Exactly. The problem with current thinking is that if something is not explicitly forbidden people see it as an invitation to change it and mess around.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It has been a while since I’ve attended an OF, but I remember specifically thinking about this forum because the congregation does the Orans position for the Pater Noster.
So I find myself very aware of my being one of a few or maybe the only one not doing the orans.

Same for me. I think it is normal to become increasingly aware of such things because they really stand out. I’ve come to see the TLM as the norm and stuff that goes on at NO as variations of what Mass should be like.

 

[laszlo]

Your anxiety comes from listening to people other than the people you should be listening to. They affect your emotions on the matter. See what the Church says on the matter and follow that. Only the Church can give you proper guidance.

I was 40 years old, when I was first in a disco (nightclub for dancing). The vibrating light, the almost unbearable decibels made me anxious.

The modern suburban churches and masses resemble me this set. It may be acceptable for those who feel themselves comfortable in a disco, but for the others this is unnatural.

The problem is not with the Form itself, but with the distorted form.

 

[ProVobis]

I was 40 years old, when I was first in a disco (nightclub for dancing). The vibrating light, the almost unbearable decibels made me anxious.

When you have microphones and encourage the congregation to “participate,” it’s just a matter of time before the decibel level becomes intolerable. It becomes difficult to go back to silence. Just saying.

Ever been to a fireworks show? It seems that the loudest, not the prettiest, usually get the most and loudest applause.

 

[Stylites]

Just keep in mind that there is ONLY One God, One Faith and One TRUE Church of Christ on your tongue. Receive ONLY from the priest or a Deacon and do not take the Blood of Christ except from a Priest or Deacon.

NOT doing so is NOT sinful but it is less pious.

Or, better advice is to follow the Holy Spirit rather than anyone on the internet telling you what is pious and what isn’t. The pharisees liked to be seen as pious men, too, and made a big show of their external actions, and they received their rewards here on earth, not in heaven.

Pray that the changes our Holy Father advocates take hold.

Praying for changes our Holy Father advocates take hold is commendable, such as allowing Communion in the hand. To only want changes to take hold which we personally agree with is not to be in communion with Christ’s wishes, plans and desires. And to imperiously dictate that others should only follow their own personal preferences is beyond reasonable.

.

 

[Love_Divine]

Hi,

So here’s my story: I returned to the Catholic Church last year and several months ago discovered the Latin Mass (FSSP).

…]

Now here’s my problem. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I have to go to an OF Mass most of the time. But since I’ve been going to the TLM, I’ve had a nagging feeling of anxiety inside me whenever I see anybody do something that is associated with the new liturgy (holding hands during the Our Father, armies of Eucharistic ministers, applause during Mass, and especially priests ad libbing parts of the Mass, and the choir changing, adding, or deleting words from the Gloria, the Sanctus, the Angus Dei, etc.)

I used to not have this feeling anxiety when I was at the OF, but now it’s upsetting me so much that I don’t want to go to Mass anymore unless it’s the EF . (although I will of course, because not doing so would be a mortal sin). The Eucharist is one of the things that attracted me to returning to the Church too.

So, since this is the Traditional Catholic forum, I ask this: How do you, when at an OF Mass, try disregard the actions of the people around you and focus on the Eucharist? How can you make spiritually fulfilling for the next week an OF Mass when you have to attend?

.

I’m in the exact same boat as you for the next two months until I move back to the city I was attending.

My parish has really deteriorated in the five years that our current priest moved there. Reverence is at an all time low and the priest turns Mass into a joke, especially when the deacon is up there with him and they start telling jokes off each other. I felt like I was having a heart attack when the priest invited a kid wearing a Canuck’s jersey up to the Sanctuary steps so everyone could laugh at him for being a Canuck’s fan, and last week I knelt down and cried after Mass because the priest actually instructed the families wearing Bruins jerseys by name to stand up so we could all “acknowledge their Stanley Cup win.” I literally start shaking in anxiety during communion because I receive COTT, and it’s such an uncommon practice in our church that the EMHC doesn’t know what to do most times and tries to “bless” instead .

What makes it worse was that while I was attending the FSSP parish, the priest explained what Mass actually was, the Paschal Sacrifice, and why we’re there every Sunday, (No one ever taught me this in my 13 years of Catholic education.)

What I do right now is attend as many of the bishop’s Masses as I can to help keep me grounded. Our bishop spent 7 years in Rome working at the Vatican and has a very good grasp of reverence. He also sticks to the rubrics, and uses the first Eucharistic Prayer, rather than the more than prominent short second Eucharistic Prayer. He also gives good edifying homilies. Basically he says the black, and does the red, and doesn’t impose himself onto the Mass.

When I attend Mass I pray for the priest prior to Mass (although, it seems the harder I pray, the worse it gets ), as well as myself to stay focused and not to have uncharitble thoughts, the Pope, our Bishop, the Church, and all the other priests. When the deacon is preaching and gets out his guitar to lead us in a sing-along of one of his songs, I close my eyes sing Asperges Me in my head until the congregation is finished their sing-along (It helps drown out the crooning). I don’t join in the orans or the one-arm blessing, nor do I clap for people with the exception of Ordinations and Baptisms (where it’s permitted as a sign of welcoming).

That said, last week was the last straw for me, and now that the newly ordained priests are starting in their new parishes, I’m leaving my parish and moving to one their parishes. One of the new priest exuded an exceptionally strong sense of reverence and orthodoxy during his ordination.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Love Divine,

stories like yours make me really angry. I mean, what right to these people have to turn something holy into a joke? Who do they think they are? It is beyond shameful.
In my old parish the priest would always give us updates of football (soccer for Americans) scores during mass. I’m all for moving to another parish when it comes to such things.

 

[Love_Divine]

Love Divine,

stories like yours make me really angry. I mean, what right to these people have to turn something holy into a joke? Who do they think they are? It is beyond shameful.
In my old parish the priest would always give us updates of football (soccer for Americans) scores during mass. I’m all for moving to another parish when it comes to such things.

Yeah, I was so happy when the hockey season ended, but then I remembered CFL football is starting, and it’s a pretty big deal in my province. I don’t want to stick around for that. I love football and all, and I have no problem in wearing a watermelon helmet on my head and sporting my Riders Jersey, but Mass is not the place.

 

[ConstantineTG]

When you have microphones and encourage the congregation to “participate,” it’s just a matter of time before the decibel level becomes intolerable. It becomes difficult to go back to silence. Just saying.

Ever been to a fireworks show? It seems that the loudest, not the prettiest, usually get the most and loudest applause.

Heaven is hardly a quiet place where the angels and saints are constantly singing praises to God. Read Revelations

 

[Love_Divine]

Heaven is hardly a quiet place where the angels and saints are constantly singing praises to God. Read Revelations

There’s a difference between heavenly music and cacophony.

 

[ConstantineTG]

There’s a difference between heavenly music and cacophony.

True, but his point was Mass was to be in complete silence. I disagree in that aspect.

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

I remember when I first started going back to church after many years as a misguided youth. I was expecting Gregorian chant soaring throughout the building, organ being played somewhat simple. What I got was annoying piano melodies, horrible pop songs and circus organ. I really thought I was at an ecumenical service, because previously I had only saw COTH and holding hands/hand shake of peace done at a lutheran service when I was 8 (my god mother converted and my Catholic family went there to show support for some reason). Infact, I went to mass once at Don Bosco/Marian Shrine when I was 15 (a girl I liked promised her mother she’d go while the parents were out of town) and I had absolutely no idea it was a Catholic church, as the mass was pretty much identical to the Lutheran one and the building looked like a green house.

Anyway…after being very disappointed in myself for not being able to experience the joy and peace (did the other parishioners have this before or after the hand shake?) of the mass, I thought I should just give up or convert to Islam. After a little research I discovered the EF (and all the politics attached to it) and had to drive to a different church every week, as the EF was only offered by a single church once every 7th moon cycle when the ground hog casts the shadow of a rabbit. Even though I had to run around town without a home parish, I still consider myself lucky to even have that option. The EF led me back to the church, I joined a schola and I made my confirmation (but don’t get me started on that awful mass!).

 

[TrueLight]

I remember when I first started going back to church after many years as a misguided youth. I was expecting Gregorian chant soaring throughout the building, organ being played somewhat simple. What I got was annoying piano melodies, horrible pop songs and circus organ. I really thought I was at an ecumenical service, because previously I had only saw COTH and holding hands/hand shake of peace done at a lutheran service when I was 8 (my god mother converted and my Catholic family went there to show support for some reason). Infact, I went to mass once at Don Bosco/Marian Shrine when I was 15 (a girl I liked promised her mother she’d go while the parents were out of town) and I had absolutely no idea it was a Catholic church, as the mass was pretty much identical to the Lutheran one and the building looked like a green house.

Anyway…after being very disappointed in myself for not being able to experience the joy and peace (did the other parishioners have this before or after the hand shake?) of the mass, I thought I should just give up or convert to Islam. After a little research I discovered the EF (and all the politics attached to it) and had to drive to a different church every week, as the EF was only offered by a single church once every 7th moon cycle when the ground hog casts the shadow of a rabbit. Even though I had to run around town without a home parish, I still consider myself lucky to even have that option. The EF led me back to the church, I joined a schola and I made my confirmation (but don’t get me started on that awful mass!).

Just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed your post.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Morgan Hiver,

it is great that it all worked out in the end. I guess we just have to pray that things get better and that TLM stops having all this politics attached to it and again becomes a normal thing in the church. It will take time but I’m hoping for the best.

 

[laszlo]

When you have microphones and encourage the congregation to “participate,” it’s just a matter of time before the decibel level becomes intolerable. It becomes difficult to go back to silence. Just saying.

Ever been to a fireworks show? It seems that the loudest, not the prettiest, usually get the most and loudest applause.

I did not said that it is inherently wrong. I only say that it hurts me, and I am not alone. The Church should self everybody, even those who do not fit the ‘suburban standard’.

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

Truelight, I’m glad my anxiety was able to bring joy to part of your day. Nothing worse than trying to think of ways to avoid holding a strangers hand without appearing unchristian hahaha er…

As for as the case of the priestly office of the baptized/orans goes, I think that maybe someone stepped into church on a whim, had no idea as to what was expected of them…then animal instincts kicked in monkey see, monkey do, imitated the priest in the oran position, other confused parishioners caught a gaze and assumed it was so crazy it must’ve been right…joined in and it caught on. Then the whole WWJD question finally had an answer and that answer is ORANS POSITION!

Contra Mundum, I am very grateful that it did workout. I don’t know what to believe about the TLM becoming the norm again. Sometimes I think it might split the church, as has already been discussed by different blogs and forums. I remember calling around to find TLM and I received answers from the elder office staff like “why would you want mass in Latin?” Or “do you even know Latin? No one uses it anymore”, “we’re past those days”. I am most certain that I will never again attend the OF, though.