Anxiety over 6th and 9th Commandments

[clarkpm2]

Friends,

I do not know what to do to help this problem I am having. For the past few days I have been anxious, stressed, and terrified over consenting to impure feelings. Even walking, sitting, and lying down become moments of anxiety (And forget breathing deeply to relieve stress, all this does is terrify me that I am consenting to some kind of carnal lust). I am reluctant to scratch itches, stretch, or sit comfortably. I am becoming lethargic and reclusive. It’s like my days are dreams and I cannot wake up. I have been going to see a counselor about this (A Protestant, but with a traditional moral standard) and have talked to priests who have just told me to ignore the sensations and move on, but I am still terrified.

Has anyone else gone through this? I’ve asked God over and over to help me, calling on the Name of Jesus almost every few minutes when I encounter these almost paralyzing fears. I only became a Catholic last year and this scrupulosity is driving me mad.

 

[david_friol_1]

Friends,

I do not know what to do to help this problem I am having. For the past few days I have been anxious, stressed, and terrified over consenting to impure feelings. Even walking, sitting, and lying down become moments of anxiety (And forget breathing deeply to relieve stress, all this does is terrify me that I am consenting to some kind of carnal lust). I am reluctant to scratch itches, stretch, or sit comfortably. I am becoming lethargic and reclusive. It’s like my days are dreams and I cannot wake up. I have been going to see a counselor about this (A Protestant, but with a traditional moral standard) and have talked to priests who have just told me to ignore the sensations and move on, but I am still terrified.

Has anyone else gone through this? I’ve asked God over and over to help me, calling on the Name of Jesus almost every few minutes when I encounter these almost paralyzing fears. I only became a Catholic last year and this scrupulosity is driving me mad.

Hello clarkpm2
I am pretty familiar with scrupulosity in the area of lust. It is not easy to ignore those feelings that we get. I am not sure if there are words that will have any lasting effect for you because in my own life the only real help came from the sacraments(confession and the Eucharist) I would suggest that you recieve the sacraments as often as you can. For me it was a slow process to learn to remove all trust in my own abilities and place all trust in Jesus and in the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Look at every fall back as a gift, yes a GIFT staight from the hands of Jesus into your heart. What kind of gift is it? It is the most precious gift of humility which we need to over come our pride which is the real culprit behind the scenes of all our sins. Pride is that self-love that wars against our love for God and neighbor. Begin to destroy that pride with humility and you will see real and amazing changes inside of you.

I regards to the scrupulosity though is:
1-remember that jesus loves you even in you sins.
2-find a priest who listens well and do exactly as he says as if from the mouth of Jesus himself.
3-Jesus knows you are weak and he sees that you are trying avoid fear and depression like the plague that they are
4-try to eat healthy, exercise some and go to bed at a reasonable time(it will help you stay alert to the temptations instead of being weak minded and collapsing so easily)
5-pray for God’s glory in you life(become more diligent in prayer and victory is within your sight)
6-Mary, Mary, Mary, That most beautiful Mother of God, How awesome are her prayers for her children. Do you trust in her prayers? You should!

I hope this helps a little.
God bless you and you family!

 

[Bookcat]

Friends,

I do not know what to do to help this problem I am having. For the past few days I have been anxious, stressed, and terrified over consenting to impure feelings. Even walking, sitting, and lying down become moments of anxiety (And forget breathing deeply to relieve stress, all this does is terrify me that I am consenting to some kind of carnal lust). I am reluctant to scratch itches, stretch, or sit comfortably. I am becoming lethargic and reclusive. It’s like my days are dreams and I cannot wake up. I have been going to see a counselor about this (A Protestant, but with a traditional moral standard) and have talked to priests who have just told me to ignore the sensations and move on, but I am still terrified.

Has anyone else gone through this? I’ve asked God over and over to help me, calling on the Name of Jesus almost every few minutes when I encounter these almost paralyzing fears. I only became a Catholic last year and this scrupulosity is driving me mad.

You need a regular confessor. Such is the age old advice for those with any kind of scruples.

And you need to “relax” …the more you stress about such…the more difficult it will become…

 

[Bookcat]

(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)

---

Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business

 

[Bookcat]

Remember too:

The classic stages of temptation when we are tempted are:

1. Suggestion (the evil is proposed to us in some way) this can be quite attractive …can be thoughts that happen, ideas etc.
2. Pleasure (a kind of automatic pleasure can happen from the suggestion) this pleasure can just happen…one is not “trying to have it” not wanting it…this is just a reaction.

3…then one either consents or does not consent.

(one can either consent fully and thus engage in things willingly …or not consent and perhaps thus grow in virtue…following Christ!)

Now it can often happen that one begins to “partially consent” but then rejects it and thus does not give full consent.

When one is tempted…

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only “partial consent”:

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure …we do not want it…we are unhappy or horrified about the evil…or struggle to not be overcome …we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage…and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person…and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc…no matter how much they come back…if one does not consent at all…there is no sin…but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted…one does resist but it is weak or slow…but in the end one rejects it…such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

Of course if one then gives in and gives full consent…then such can be mortal…remember…partial consent or half consent is not full consent…and thus not mortal.

(Based on A Tanquery… he bases things on S. Augustine…but much of this is simply repeated in various places…for it is the basics in judging such)

 

[Bookcat]

It is important for you to get that regular confessor…and then lay this before him…

then with his help…learn what is sin and what is not…

and what is unreasonable fears…and with his help…learn to act against them.

 

[Bookcat]

This may be of some help too from the senior apologist at CA…it may be OCD or similar…(scrupulosity does not = per se OCD…but some may have both…and there can be similarities too)

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/04/a_crown_of_thor.html

 

[david_friol_1]

(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)

---

Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business

Great advice!