Any Catholic *Apologists* Left?

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mark_a said:
Who is James White?
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James White is a Reformed Baptist apologist who has made a name for himself in the Catholic community through a number of oral debates. He is an elder in his church and the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, as well as a prolific author.

He distinguishes himself from other Protestant apologists by actually attempting to address Church documents and Church history, although he has a tendency to slyly misrepresent the Church’s position (documented) and grossly misrepresent the Early Church Fathers.

An example, you ask? Sure. Here, James White states the following:
James White:
…if you read Athanasius’ letter, he argues solely from the Scriptures as the rule of faith against the Arians. He argues that this is what defines what Christians are to believe.
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He continues along that vein to demonstrate that Athanasius was a Sola Scriptura believer. Persuasive? Possibly, unless you’re familiar with Athanasius’ writings about Mary…

Athanasius said:
“O noble Virgin… O dwelling place of God the Word… You are greater than them all, O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
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Now James White says that Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant is an absurdly un-Biblical idea, and out of the other side of his mouth says that Athanasius was a Bible Alone believer. Misrepresentation? It would seem so.

IMO, part of the reason he brings so much negative attention on himself is (1) his refusal to admit his errors, (2) the ad hominem attacks he engages in (while insisting that he does not and decrying the ad hominem attacks of others), and (3) the usage of words like “papist”, “shallow”, “knowing deception”, “Romish”, etc. in conjunction with unflattering comments decrying the unscholarly responses of any opposition. It strikes most readers (from my anecdotal experience) as haughty and prideful.

But that’s just my opinion.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
Cool Ryan! I did not know that about Athanasius and the Mary/Ark connection. I have heard several Scott Hahn detractors claim that Hahn pulled the Mary/Ark connection out of his behind and that it was unheard of before him. Sometimes you just have to stop listening to people with an axe to grind. 🙂
 
Scottgun said:
…I have heard several Scott Hahn detractors claim that Hahn pulled the Mary/Ark connection out of his behind and that it was unheard of before him…
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If the Early Church Fathers (ECF) and Mary is a topic which interests you, you might like to see this.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
Machen said:
What is the deal with all the hit threads about James White here and on the Envoy forums?

When you look at what people are actually saying, one thing is clear: None of you know what apologetics is. Is there a thoughtful Catholic apologist left anywhere who can actually mount an argument without attacking James White’s character? My goodness.

Where are the codre of Catholic voices rebuking people like RyanL, Artsippo, Jerry-Jet, Prejean, and all the rest of them? If I were a thoughtful Catholic (and not just a hot-head behind a keyboard), such behavior was utterly humiliate me and I would call those people to the carpet.

Sadly, the responses to this will probably only prove my point.

Machen
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I don’t need to attack his character. He was wrong. Simple as that. This theological base was misplaced and so every conclusion he drew from it has already been overwhelmingly proven to be wrong by the Church. We proved him wrong way back when White was still alive. I don’t see why we have to keep having the same arguements over and over again just because his modern day disciples didn’t listen the first time. The disciples of Jesus will win every time because we have the Holy Spirit guiding us.
 
I make no apology for defending the Catholic Church against James White.

I pray that he will one day be converted to it and will also defend the Fullness of Truth.
 
I would like to reply for a moment to the OP’s original idea about not addressing/attacking the character of James White, or others with whom debate is taking place.

Why is it so wrong to point out that the character of someone is not reflecting of the Lord whom they profess?
 
Well, Dr. White is not innocent in “mud slinging” as well. I’ve noticed that he has been just as rude torward the “opposition” as he proposes they are. Some of his response letters to RC attacks are not polite, but he doesn’t call names either.

James White is a great theologian/apologist for the reformed side, but he stands to the Calvinist viewpoint. I don’t agree with Calvinism, even though I grew up a 5 point Calvinist (Now I’m a 5 pint Lutheran, get it?).

Dr. White can make the Reformed/Calvinist view to seem just as important as the gospel itself, but that’s HIS view. Recently, through prayer, as well as watching debates between White and Sungenis, or Matatics… and even Mitch Pacwa (He’s great), I’ve changed my mind on ALOT of what I thought was heretical in the Catholic church.

Before, I thought that if I converted to the RC faith, that I would be sinning against God and my conscience, but now I’m more of the opinion that I really know less than I thought I did. Now, I’m letting my path be led by the Lord. What He want’s me to do, I will do it, even if that’s converting to the RC faith. It’s THY will be done, not MY will be done. Dominus Tecum. Amen.:signofcross:
 
5pintLutheran said:
Before, I thought that if I converted to the RC faith, that I would be sinning against God and my conscience, but now I’m more of the opinion that I really know less than I thought I did. Now, I’m letting my path be led by the Lord. What He want’s me to do, I will do it, even if that’s converting to the RC faith. It’s THY will be done, not MY will be done. Dominus Tecum. Amen.:signofcross:
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And then you can be a 5 pint Catholic.👍
 
Machen said:
What is the deal with all the hit threads about James White here and on the Envoy forums?

When you look at what people are actually saying, one thing is clear: None of you know what apologetics is. Is there a thoughtful Catholic apologist left anywhere who can actually mount an argument without attacking James White’s character?
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Phil and Ryan have already answered you sufficiently (James’ favorite word, by the way 🙂 ) I happened to refute him on substance on Sola Scriptura myself in another thread too.
 
So the answer to the OP is, “Yes”.

Now for a followup question:

Why would anyone follow James White, as opposed to Christ or his Vicar on Earth?

What authority does White have?
 
5pintLutheran said:
Well, Dr. White is not innocent in “mud slinging” as well. I’ve noticed that he has been just as rude torward the “opposition” as he proposes they are. Some of his response letters to RC attacks are not polite, but he doesn’t call names either.

James White is a great theologian/apologist for the reformed side, but he stands to the Calvinist viewpoint. I don’t agree with Calvinism, even though I grew up a 5 point Calvinist (Now I’m a 5 pint Lutheran, get it?).

Dr. White can make the Reformed/Calvinist view to seem just as important as the gospel itself, but that’s HIS view. Recently, through prayer, as well as watching debates between White and Sungenis, or Matatics… and even Mitch Pacwa (He’s great), I’ve changed my mind on ALOT of what I thought was heretical in the Catholic church.

Before, I thought that if I converted to the RC faith, that I would be sinning against God and my conscience, but now I’m more of the opinion that I really know less than I thought I did. Now, I’m letting my path be led by the Lord. What He want’s me to do, I will do it, even if that’s converting to the RC faith. It’s THY will be done, not MY will be done. Dominus Tecum. Amen.:signofcross:
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SO GLAD you are thinking of converting to RC. If you have not read it, pick up " Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic. by David Currie. I know there are hundreds of apologetics books-- but you will really like this one. Also see Michael Cumbie’s books and tapes at www.mikecumbie.org and have a pint for me.

Best wishes from the Jersey Shore.
 
5pintLutheran said:
Well, Dr. White is not innocent in “mud slinging” as well. I’ve noticed that he has been just as rude torward the “opposition” as he proposes they are. Some of his response letters to RC attacks are not polite, but he doesn’t call names either.

James White is a great theologian/apologist for the reformed side, but he stands to the Calvinist viewpoint. I don’t agree with Calvinism, even though I grew up a 5 point Calvinist (Now I’m a 5 pint Lutheran, get it?).

Dr. White can make the Reformed/Calvinist view to seem just as important as the gospel itself, but that’s HIS view. Recently, through prayer, as well as watching debates between White and Sungenis, or Matatics… and even Mitch Pacwa (He’s great), I’ve changed my mind on ALOT of what I thought was heretical in the Catholic church.

Before, I thought that if I converted to the RC faith, that I would be sinning against God and my conscience, but now I’m more of the opinion that I really know less than I thought I did. Now, I’m letting my path be led by the Lord. What He want’s me to do, I will do it, even if that’s converting to the RC faith. It’s THY will be done, not MY will be done. Dominus Tecum. Amen.:signofcross:
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Keep at it, the Holy Spirit will guide you.
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
<< Who is James White? >>

He’s the brother of convert to Catholicism, Patti Bonds:D
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He overturned the fundamentalist apple cart several years ago with a book on the ‘King James Only’ movement. Believe me, his worst enemies are on his side of the Tiber. I read the book several years ago, it was pretty informative…and rather dull. Not bedtime reading.
 
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