Any Catholic please help

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My brother is baptist and he always tells me that Romans 10:9 is proof of OSAS and that you don’t need a priest (confession) a “cracker” (the Eucharist) or any of the other sacrements which he says are unbiblical. He says that Romans 10:9 is proof of everything he says. Please help.
 
My brother is baptist and he always tells me that Romans 10:9 is proof of OSAS and that you don’t need a priest (confession) a “cracker” (the Eucharist) or any of the other sacrements which he says are unbiblical. He says that Romans 10:9 is proof of everything he says. Please help.
Ask him about what the rest of the Bible says.
Is Romans 10:9 the only verse in the Bible?

Try out…Matthew 10:22
"“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.”

Clearly…that is in contradiction to saying just “Jesus is Lord”

Belief and Faith are different.

Faith is a dynamic term which includes an entire lifestyle choice.

Faith is a way of life…not an intellectual thing.

A faith of just belief is…as James says…dead…

Jesus tells us to carry our cross…does that sound like Jesus told us to proclaim that He is Lord and we are good to go?

(By the way…being a little scrupulous…but this might be fitting under a different forum heading)

Pray for him…any time you think about him!!!
 
From here: drbo.org/chapter/52010.htm

**9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

Defined below:

9 “Thou shalt be saved”… To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord (ver. 13) is not barely the professing a belief in the person of Christ; but moreover, implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which, the calling him Lord will save no man. St. Matt. 7. 21. **
 
My brother is baptist and he always tells me that Romans 10:9 is proof of OSAS and that you don’t need a priest (confession) a “cracker” (the Eucharist) or any of the other sacrements which he says are unbiblical. He says that Romans 10:9 is proof of everything he says. Please help.
Romans 10:9

“for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Your brother is cherry picking. The verse is only understood in its whole context, the whole chapter 10 of Romans:

*"Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God on their behalf is for salvation.
I testify with regard to them that they have zeal for God, but it is not discerning.
For, in their unawareness of the righteousness that comes from God and their attempt to establish their own (righteousness), they did not submit to the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for the justification of everyone who has faith.
Moses writes about the righteousness that comes from (the) law, “The one who does these things will live by them.”
But the righteousness that comes from faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down) or ‘Who will go down into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach), for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.
For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone to preach?
And how can people preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring (the) good news!”
But not everyone has heeded the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what was heard from us?”
Thus faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.
But I ask, did they not hear? Certainly they did; for “Their voice has gone forth to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.”
But I ask, did not Israel understand? First Moses says: “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a senseless nation I will make you angry.”
Then Isaiah speaks boldly and says: “I was found (by) those who were not seeking me; I revealed myself to those who were not asking for me.”
But regarding Israel he says, “All day long I stretched out my hands to a disobedient and contentious people.” *

Despite Israel’s lack of faith in God’s act in Christ, Paul does not abandon hope for her salvation. However, Israel must recognize that the Messiah’s arrival in the person of Jesus Christ means the termination of the Mosaic law as the criterion for understanding oneself in a valid relationship to God. Faith in God’s saving action in Jesus Christ takes precedence over any such legal claim.

The Mosaic legislation has been superseded by God’s action in Jesus Christ. Christ is the goal of the law, i.e., the true meaning of the Mosaic law, which cannot be correctly understood apart from him.

To confess Jesus as Lord was frequently quite hazardous in the first century. For a Jew it could mean disruption of normal familial and other social relationships, including great economic sacrifice. In the face of penalties imposed by the secular world, Christians are assured that no one who believes in Jesus will be put to shame.

The gospel has been sufficiently proclaimed to Israel, and Israel has adequately understood God’s plan for the messianic age, which would see the gospel brought to the uttermost parts of the earth. As often in the past, Israel has not accepted the prophetic message.

Source: vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PYY.HTM
 
From here: drbo.org/chapter/52010.htm

**9 For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

Defined below:

9 “Thou shalt be saved”… To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord (ver. 13) is not barely the professing a belief in the person of Christ; but moreover, implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which, the calling him Lord will save no man. St. Matt. 7. 21.**
The problem with this is that my brother will say “if you do the evil deeds described through out the bible, when you confessed by mouth you didn’t really mean it and were never really saved.”
 
First of all, does your brother acknowlege that the bible is divinely inspired and is the unfalliable word of God?
If yes,
Is he familliar with John Chapter 6?

John 6
51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

If your brother has never eaten Jesus in the form of Bread and Wine, then he cannot possibly be “saved”. Please let him know this. Jesus, in his mercy and love, provides us with His own Body and Blood as nourishment. It is not as simple as praying a prayer. Jesus said that we MUST do this.

I hope this helps, and I’m praying for your brother and for you. If you need more help, you’re definitely in the right place. I’m sure someone else can help also! 👍
 
My brother is baptist and he always tells me that Romans 10:9 is proof of OSAS and that you don’t need a priest (confession) a “cracker” (the Eucharist) or any of the other sacrements which he says are unbiblical. He says that Romans 10:9 is proof of everything he says. Please help.
What a tremendous burden not going to confession must be for him.
 
First of all, does your brother acknowlege that the bible is divinely inspired and is the unfalliable word of God?
If yes,
Is he familliar with John Chapter 6?

John 6
51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

If your brother has never eaten Jesus in the form of Bread and Wine, then he cannot possibly be “saved”. Please let him know this. Jesus, in his mercy and love, provides us with His own Body and Blood as nourishment. It is not as simple as praying a prayer. Jesus said that we MUST do this.

I hope this helps, and I’m praying for your brother and for you. If you need more help, you’re definitely in the right place. I’m sure someone else can help also! 👍
The problem with this is that he will say " To eat his flesh and drink his blood is symbolic of living a Christian life to the best of your ability and taking in and proclaiming the word of Christ."
 
The problem with this is that he will say " To eat his flesh and drink his blood is symbolic of living a Christian life to the best of your ability and taking in and proclaiming the word of Christ."
Sounds like he wishes to pick and choose what should be read as litteral. The words are verry clear “Take, eat; this is my body.” ST. Matthew 26:26, and “Drink ye al of it; for this is my blood ot the new testament which, is poured out for you for the remission of sins.” ST Matthew 26:27-28. (see also mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-20, and 1 cirubtguabs 11:23-25).

One can not pick and choose spots that are litteral and others not. When one comes to relize that one starts to relize the full truth of the Catholic church. (That which I am trying to rediscover.)
That which hopfuly you brother will understand also.
 
He is taking the verse out of context. You cannot pick a verse here and there and say “That’s it, that’s all I have to do to be saved!”. For example, the bible says, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”. Is that true? Just call out his name and he will save you? No it is not true. Elsewhere it also says “NOT everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved but he who does the will of my Father”. So that is what your brother is doing, taking the first verse and ignoring what the rest of the bible says. Everyone wants to get to heaven but not everyone wants to do what God requires to get there.
 
My brother is baptist and he always tells me that Romans 10:9 is proof of OSAS and that you don’t need a priest (confession) a “cracker” (the Eucharist) or any of the other sacrements which he says are unbiblical. He says that Romans 10:9 is proof of everything he says. Please help.
I would ask him if the Bible is lying when it makes the following claims:

Matt 7:21

**"Noteveryone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who DOES the will of my Father in heaven. **

**Matt 24:11-13 11 **
***Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold. ***
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

Philippians 2:12
**So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling. **

John 6:53
**Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. **

1 Peter 3:21-22
**This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. **

Acts 2:38-39
**Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. **
For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call."
 
You can’t force someone to accept or believe anything you want them too. Even if you could “PROVE” to their satisfaction. People draw lines in the sand all the time over varioius isses. Even faithful Catholics. We all fall short of the glory of God. What most people in general don’t understand [and I’m just really beginning to get this myself] is that we don’t have the background of the first Christians who were Jewish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Seder

Scott Hahn has a few CDs out there that you ought to listen to while driving to work/school. Also, get hold of several books…
The Lambs Supper
Swear to God
Hail Holy Queen
First Comes Love

just to name a few. Scott Hahn has a gift of explaining long standing Church teachings and ties it into sacred traditions of the Jews…and explains the Catholic Traditions [note the capital “T”]. In order to understand salvation one must come to understand God…by leaning about His chosen people. Now I’m qualifying my statement by simply saying that your brother just doesn’t get the basic simple truths. He may never get it. Most likely he will never get it. He may be like the cafateria Catholics that pick and choose what they want to believe. He will have to answer to the Lord one day for that. But that is on him, not you.

If you want to really kick around some ideas then ask him where does the Bible come from. Show him this link of ancient texts earlychristianwritings.com/ [it was down when I posted this] and ask him to pick and choose which documents should be in the bible. Ask him if he prefers the King James Version and then if he says yes, ask him if he knows that the original KJV contained all of the books of the bible that are in the Catholic bible. Then as Why? You can kick this around until you’re blue in the face. If he really wants to know truth and is truly in love with the Lord then he will want to get to know the Lord better.

The entire bible must either be received or rejected. You can’t just decide to believe in one part. I accept that Christ was born, but I don’t believe he died… for example.

Remind him of what Peter tells us…

2 Peter 1:20
2 Peter 3:16-17

And also read these.
John 10:16
Math 16:18

I could put more but the point would be? If this doesn’t convince him to at least ask more questions to himself at least then he’s not really seeking truth…not really. He’s trying to have his own way… It’s part of the “church of what’s happening now” theology. “me and my big brother Jesus”. He forgets that the Church isn’t an individual, it’s Christ body made up of those who are added to the Church…by what…Baptism…not a prayer in my heart. Sure that becomes part of it in the fullness of time in our lives… I personalized Christ…in other words…“got it”. I realized my offensiveness to God by my sins. I personally called out to Christ to be my Lord and Savior… I owned up to the promises my parents made for me at my baptism. Sure, I got dunked later, but there is “only one baptism”. My infant baptism sufficed. I grew weary of it in my young adult life and tripped because of people like your brother constantly disordered in their thinking and trying to show us they know better… non-Catholic churches are full of popes…people speaking with their OWN authority, not Gods. Christ established a Church and told the Jews of his time to obey the Tradition, in spite of the bad examples. Matt. 23:2–3

Also evangelicals tend to see Tradition as tradition. Not so. Tradition as noted above is sacred authority if it is supposed to be followed…'seat of Moses"… denotes the authority. Like wise Christ established a Church, not a bible. This could be elaborated on too. But then we’d be writing a book.

I’d take care of myself and just pray for your brother. He is a brother in Christ, just not in the fullness of the sense. He is part of the separated bretheren. Just try to set a good example for him. “Pillar of Truth Pillar of Fire” is a good track [if I remembered the name right]. I gave mine away. It can be obtained online on the CAF website www.catholic.com.

Pax

edited to add: look at my signature. That is a statement made by Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrneans. In this same document he refers to the Church as “KATHOLIKOS”…Catholic. This was written on his way to be killed in about 107 A.D. This is only the tip of the iceberg that most Protestants miss. If more Catholics would read these documents their faith would be strengthened and they tend to laugh when people say these sorts of things against the Church. The bible is truly Catholic. I always say…READ IT. YOU WILL FIND NO CONFLICTS WITH CATHOLIC TEACHING. WHY? BECAUSE IT IS A CATHOLIC COLLECTION OF DOCUMENTS. Look up the 1611 Edition ofthe King James Version. I have a copy of it. $30 from Barnes and Nobles. Worth every penny to watch Protestant jaws drop.
 
Sounds like he wishes to pick and choose what should be read as litteral. The words are verry clear “Take, eat; this is my body.” ST. Matthew 26:26, and “Drink ye al of it; for this is my blood ot the new testament which, is poured out for you for the remission of sins.” ST Matthew 26:27-28. (see also mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-20, and 1 cirubtguabs 11:23-25).

One can not pick and choose spots that are litteral and others not. When one comes to relize that one starts to relize the full truth of the Catholic church. (That which I am trying to rediscover.)
That which hopfuly you brother will understand also.
The problem is he says he “KNOWS” he’s right because he’s led by the Holy Spirit whereas Catholics are led by the devil.
 
The problem is he says he “KNOWS” he’s right because he’s led by the Holy Spirit whereas Catholics are led by the devil.
Ask him to prove that he is led by the Holy Spirit. Ask him to also prove the Catholic Church is led by a different spirit.

The Mormons make the same claim your brother makes. They say that they are convicted of the truth of the Book of Mormon by the Holy Spirit by a “burning in the bosom.” Does your brother feel the same burning? Are their doctrines all to be taken as true based merely on subjective responses, or should it be conceded that personal feelings (no matter how sincere they may be felt) are no basis upon which to accept or reject religious doctrines.

Peace,
-Robert
 
My brother is baptist and he always tells me that Romans 10:9 is proof of OSAS and that you don’t need a priest (confession) a “cracker” (the Eucharist) or any of the other sacrements which he says are unbiblical. He says that Romans 10:9 is proof of everything he says. Please help.
The Bible isn’t just Romans 10:9. There’s more to it than that and your brother should know that too, being a Baptist.
I don’t have a Bible handy but thumb through the gospels and find the part about the Last Supper: “Do this in remembrance of me”. There’s the answer and it came straight from the mouth of Jesus and what has kept me Catholic all these years. 😉
 
The problem with this is that he will say " To eat his flesh and drink his blood is symbolic of living a Christian life to the best of your ability and taking in and proclaiming the word of Christ."
Ask him if the ENTIRE Bible is symbolic to him. I would tend to question him more and ask him HOW he knows that he is being led by the Holy Spirit too because the devil is a powerful spirit too.
 
Ask him to prove that he is led by the Holy Spirit. Ask him to also prove the Catholic Church is led by a different spirit.

The Mormons make the same claim your brother makes. They say that they are convicted of the truth of the Book of Mormon by the Holy Spirit by a “burning in the bosom.” Does your brother feel the same burning? Are their doctrines all to be taken as true based merely on subjective responses, or should it be conceded that personal feelings (no matter how sincere they may be felt) are no basis upon which to accept or reject religious doctrines.

Peace,
-Robert
He makes all of the protestant claims as to why the Church is led by the devil; “revelation might as well be renamed the Catholic Church because it is the whore of babylon on seven hills, there is no mediator but Jesus, the Eucharist is a cannibalistic idea from the devil,” etc. etc. And no matter how many verses I show him or how many times I tell him about the 8 different versions of his “bible” his reply is always “you misinterpret or you don’t know what you’re talking about because the Catholic Church has got you brainwashed.” And it’s not just a feeling he KNOWS he’s led by the Holy Spirit.
 
Ask him if the ENTIRE Bible is symbolic to him. I would tend to question him more and ask him HOW he knows that he is being led by the Holy Spirit too because the devil is a powerful spirit too.
The funny thing is my brother will also say that the last supper is symbolic of Christ’s body and blood but he will also say that in Jn 6 vs 60-70 it is symbolic of Christ’s words and morals, to which I say, "wait a minute you just said that the last supper was symbolic of His body and blood not His words and teachings, which is it ? To which I get very watered down responses.
 
The funny thing is my brother will also say that the last supper is symbolic of Christ’s body and blood but he will also say that in Jn 6 vs 60-70 it is symbolic of Christ’s words and morals, to which I say, "wait a minute you just said that the last supper was symbolic of His body and blood not His words and teachings, which is it ? To which I get very watered down responses.
I would just get confused about what is symbolic and what is to be taken literally. My head is spinning already! lol :whacky: Does his minister guide him with his interpretations or does he believe he knows it all from the Holy Spirit?
 
I would just get confused about what is symbolic and what is to be taken literally. My head is spinning already! lol :whacky: Does his minister guide him with his interpretations or does he believe he knows it all from the Holy Spirit?
It’s very clear that he is very influenced by what his pastor says but he always tells me that if, for some reason, his pastor were to agree with Catholics someday on any of the "Catholic/protestant debates that he (his pastor) would be wrong but that this can’t happen as his pastor is led by (you guessed it) The Holy Spirit. The funny thing is, my brother comes out with different opions on many topics from week to week depending on his congregation’s opinion at the time which proves two things to me; 1. His “church” can’t be the one chosen by Christ because Christ doesn’t change His way of thinking, and 2 my brother does not think on his own.
 
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