Any converts from Eastern Orthodoxy?

[josie_L]

Thank you for that post, josie. So then, would you consider that equally true with regard to the Western-Rite Orthodox?

Are you asking me if the Western rite Orthodox are fully accepted as Orthodox? I would assume that they are.

 

[Peter_J]

Are you asking me if the Western rite Orthodox are fully accepted as Orthodox? I would assume that they are.

Yes they are, but that wasn’t my question. My point was that it is equally true (however that might be exactly) that, if the Catholic spouse converted to Orthodoxy, the Orthodox spouse could “meet him/her halfway” by going Western-Rite Orthodox.

 

[josie_L]

Yes they are, but that wasn’t my question. My point was that it is equally true that, if the Catholic spouse converted to Orthodoxy, the Orthodox spouse could “meet him/her halfway” by going Western-Rite Orthodox.

I’m missing something here which I don’t believe is similar to the situation posted by Ryan. As I said earlier Gary did not mean to say that Eastern Catholics were less than Catholic by his comments of “meeting you halfway”. Ryan’s wife is Catholic and she wanted to remain Catholic, the only thing she could do for her husband was go to a Byzantine liturgical mass which is identical to the Eastern Orthodox mass.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m missing something here which I don’t believe is similar to the situation posted by Ryan. As I said earlier Gary did not mean to say that Eastern Catholics were less than Catholic by his comments of “meeting you halfway”. Ryan’s wife is Catholic and she wanted to remain Catholic, the only thing she could do for her husband was go to a Byzantine liturgical mass which is identical to the Eastern Orthodox mass.

I don’t think you’re missing anything. Or at least, if you are I can’t imagine what it is, because what your last sentence hit the nail on the head … the flip-side of that would be precisely what I mentioned in my last post, i.e. a Catholic spouse becoming Orthodox, with the Orthodox spouse going WRO.

Edit: If you are missing something, I guess it’s the fact that I never questioned whether the WRO are fully Orthodox.

 

[GaryTaylor]

If you change let it only be out of firm conviction that the religion you’re considering is absolutely true.

And then consider how this effects your husband/wife, your children, and the rest of both families. Who apparently believe absolutely what they believe, and clearly vocalized and agree’d upon this “before” you in fact changed “your” mind. And are you in fact sure you have the “absolute truth” to disrupt this union with all its complexities that you agree’d upon with those also believe they have the absolute truth?

I believe that was indeed the point. These conversations are “common” before marriage when daughters and sons bring this to their family and then they proceed forward as we see. And they “also” believe they are following the “:absolute truth” and as we see by the children’s conviction expressed here.

The fact one is struggling in faith as we see doesn’t indicate absolute truth and is a “bad” reason to disrupt union and bring on a family dilemma which then could indeed create all kinds of issues.

This is the third and last time I’ll say this. Talk to you husband and wife “communicate” and if there’s an issue and this isn’t working you need another to intervene be it a priest, counselor etc.

 

[Peter_J]

Glad to see something we agree on, Gary (I’m trying to be positive here and not argue with you about some of your other posts on thread, other than the first one and the last one ):

And then consider how this effects your husband/wife, your children, and the rest of both families.

Definitely. Switching sides (or whatever we want to call it) isn’t something to be done without careful consideration.

 

[AbideWithMe]

And then consider how this effects your husband/wife, your children, and the rest of both families. Who apparently believe absolutely what they believe, and clearly vocalized and agree’d upon this “before” you in fact changed “your” mind. And are you in fact sure you have the “absolute truth” to disrupt this union with all its complexities that you agree’d upon with those also believe they have the absolute truth?

I believe that was indeed the point. These conversations are “common” before marriage when daughters and sons bring this to their family and then they proceed forward as we see. And they “also” believe they are following the “:absolute truth” and as we see by the children’s conviction expressed here.

The fact one is struggling in faith as we see doesn’t indicate absolute truth and is a “bad” reason to disrupt union and bring on a family dilemma which then could indeed create all kinds of issues.

This is the third and last time I’ll say this. Talk to you husband and wife “communicate” and if there’s an issue and this isn’t working you need another to intervene be it a priest, counselor etc.

Gary, you make some very good points here, IMO. I think Ryan is abiding by that consideration for his wife, despite his own doubts.

I’m wondering, though, if you and most of the people here at CAF would give the same consideration in a case where two Protestant spouses met and married in their Protestant church, giving each other every reason to expect they’d stay together as a family in that kind of church. And then one later wants to convert to Catholicism or Orthodoxy because they become convinced they’ve discovered the truth, while other partner firmly does not want to convert.

What I see on this forum is that people encourage one partner in a marriage to convert to Catholicism, despite all the problems for the marriage and children it causes.

 

[Peter_J]

What I see on this forum is that people encourage one partner in a marriage to convert to Catholicism, despite all the problems for the marriage and children it causes.

Do you have any particular threads in mind? I don’t recall discussions like that.

Anyhow, wrt this current thread I think the bigger issue is whether this thread is “Any converts from Eastern Orthodoxy?” or “Let’s analyse Ryan.” (I guess it goes without saying that the correct answer is the former but I’m afraid that some of Gary’s posts might make people think the latter.)

 

[AbideWithMe]

Do you have any particular threads in mind? I don’t recall discussions like that.

Anyhow, wrt this current thread I think the bigger issue is whether this thread is “Any converts from Eastern Orthodoxy?” or “Let’s analyse Ryan.” (I guess it goes without saying that the correct answer is the former but I’m afraid that some of Gary’s post might make people think the latter.)

Peter, I don’t have time to track one down, but there have been many in the time I’ve been here. Most are on other CAF sub-forums, such as Family Life.

We do need to stay with the OP’s question. I was hoping Gary could answer me as a brief aside, rather than an ongoing derailment. I’ve actually wanted to pose my question many times before as its own thread, because I’m really troubled by this encouragement of one spouse to conversion. I don’t have enough time to respond to a dedicated thread about this, though.

 

[Randy_Carson]

After leaving the Catholic Church I went to two Orthodox parishes near me for about six months. I stopped just short of asking to be a catechumens in a Russian church.

Part of the reason I stopped short is because the Orthodox parishes had essentially become social clubs for the particular ethnic group (Greek and Russian respectively). The Greek parish was icy. There were about three or four converts that kept to themselves, and they were never fully incorporated into the parish. I mentioned this issue to the priest and he actually apologized for the racism and clanish behavior of his flock. I came down to ask the question “Why would I ever want to join a parish that I could never fully be a part of?” He said good question and he didn’t blame me. The Greek parishes only “outreach” was an annual Greek festival that was more about getting hammered and less about Jesus. I went to the Russian parish which was much more welcoming. A large amount of converts who were more or less fully vested in the parish. I couldn’t get past some things in Orthodox theology and thought though.

One could extrapolate from this that by remaining insular, the EO have NOT fulfilled the Great Commission and are thereby disqualified from consideration as being the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church they claim to be.

Heaven help the forum member who dares to connect THOSE dots, however…

 

[GaryTaylor]

Anyhow, wrt this current thread I think the bigger issue is whether this thread is “Any converts from Eastern Orthodoxy?” or “Let’s analyse Ryan.” (I guess it goes without saying that the correct answer is the former but I’m afraid that some of Gary’s posts might make people think the latter.)

These are difficult situation’s which you know yourself being raised Catholic. They are the same in the EO and also the protestant realm.

The thread and its intentions are clear in the OP. Personal conversations within them may or not stick to the OP and may drift. The bigger issue to me is the conflicts within these marriages and any similar marriage.

The worst situation I seen was with my brother who married a protestant. I assure you before that marriage I think my mother all but crucified him about being married in the Church and the children being raised Catholic. The idea that she had to convert wasn’t an issue, in fact none of us ever pressured her in any way including my brother. .

My niece then being raised Catholic all the way through school and college interacted with my sister in law on this family learning level. Needless to say she converted to Catholicism and frankly astonished us since she become clearly a very devote practicing Catholic.

Well this didn’t go over well with her family. In fact they never spoke to her again and they will not speak to the children either.

Yea, I would say my sister in laws parents believe the found the absolute truth also and are unwilling to compromise on it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I’m really trying to leave this thread but there’s another point I feel “very” strongly about.

This one…

“Part of the reason I stopped short is because the Orthodox parishes had essentially become social clubs for the particular ethnic group (Greek and Russian respectively).”

This occurs within the Catholic Church also. I’ve felt this way within the different area’s of the Catholic Church since they too could be very ethnic, priest, flock etc. From here the personal ignorance varies with millage.

I tend to overlook this narrow minded thinking and refuse to cooperate with it. I’d like to think many of us in the county have put our best foot forward to continuously address this also. However I notice I still find myself commenting on this ignorance now and again. In fact I’ve done this “in” Church, probably embossed everyone around as things become “very” silent at that moment.

This has “also” been my experience with the EF and OF mass since that too was mentioned along with the Divine Liturgy. That particular conversation is “banned” in my home. Gods ministers save souls through the sacraments and in a “dungeon” if and when need be, along with everywhere else in this land of the shadow. And frankly I could care less if there’s a pipe organ, the Philharmonic Orchestra, or what appears to be angel personally singing. Also while it may be beautiful in these different buildings and so forth, I am convinced if they were reduced to ruble the eternal city of God would still exist and His ministers will continue to save.

Amen, May He be Blessed Forever.

I have little use for that conversation, and certainly reject that insinuation within my own home about my salvation. “After” you waked a mile in my shoes “then” you can come back in my home and we’ll revisit the conversation about “where” Christ saves and what is physically required for Him to do so. . No-one has nothing ever to say at that point for “clearly” I am speaking “humility” and they are speaking “vanity” So frankly that conversation falls sloppy dead with me, and see no sense in myself being upset in my own home.

So tell me. what absolute truth did you find?

 

[Peter_J]

I’m really trying to leave this thread

FWIW (which I admit may not be much) I personally am glad you haven’t left. After everything you posted in the first couple pages of this thread, it would strike me as a little bit hit-and-run-ish if you left now.

but there’s another point I feel “very” strongly about.

This one…

“Part of the reason I stopped short is because the Orthodox parishes had essentially become social clubs for the particular ethnic group (Greek and Russian respectively).”

This occurs within the Catholic Church also. I’ve felt this way within the different area’s of the Catholic Church since they too could be very ethnic, priest, flock etc. From here the personal ignorance varies with millage.

I tend to overlook this narrow minded thinking and refuse to cooperate with it. I’d like to think many of us in the county have put our best foot forward to continuously address this also. However I notice I still find myself commenting on this ignorance now and again. In fact I’ve done this “in” Church, probably embossed everyone around as things become “very” silent at that moment.

This has “also” been my experience with the EF and OF mass since that too was mentioned along with the Divine Liturgy. That particular conversation is “banned” in my home. Gods ministers save souls through the sacraments and in a “dungeon” if and when need be, along with everywhere else in this land of the shadow. And frankly I could care less if there’s a pipe organ, the Philharmonic Orchestra, or what appears to be angel personally singing. Also while it may be beautiful in these different buildings and so forth, I am convinced if they were reduced to ruble the eternal city of God would still exist and His ministers will continue to save.

Amen, May He be Blessed Forever.

I quite agree that ethnicity can be an issue (based on my own experiences as well as what I’ve heard from others).

However, you lost me in your last two paragraphs:

I have little use for that conversation, and certainly reject that insinuation within my own home about my salvation. “After” you waked a mile in my shoes “then” you can come back in my home and we’ll revisit the conversation about “where” Christ saves and what is physically required for Him to do so. . No-one has nothing ever to say at that point for “clearly” I am speaking “humility” and they are speaking “vanity” So frankly that conversation falls sloppy dead with me, and see no sense in myself being upset in my own home.

So tell me. what absolute truth did you find?

 

[GaryTaylor]

What’s the question my brother in Christ? I have to leave very shortly but I will try to address your concern. I don’t want to type 100 words which miss the mark and then leave the question unanswered?

 

[Peter_J]

What’s the question my brother in Christ? I have to leave very shortly but I will try to address your concern. I don’t want to type 100 words which miss the mark and then leave the question unanswered?

I appreciate that. Unfortunately, though, I can’t ask a specific question b/c I just have no idea what you were talking about in those last two paragraphs I quoted. (Perhaps it doesn’t matter.)

 

[truthseeker32]

One could extrapolate from this that by remaining insular, the EO have NOT fulfilled the Great Commission and are thereby disqualified from consideration as being the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church they claim to be.

Heaven help the forum member who dares to connect THOSE dots, however…

1. The true Catholic Church will be the least insular church.
2. The Eastern Orthodox Church is not the least insular church.
3. Therefore, the Eastern Orthodox Church is not the true Catholic Church.
4. The true Catholic Church will be the least insular church.
5. Mormonism (or maybe Seventh-day Adventism) is the least insular church.
6. Therefore Mormons are the true Catholic Church.

 

[Randy_Carson]

1. The true Catholic Church will be the least insular church.
2. The Eastern Orthodox Church is not the least insular church.
3. Therefore, the Eastern Orthodox Church is not the true Catholic Church.
4. The true Catholic Church will be the least insular church.
5. Mormonism (or maybe Seventh-day Adventism) is the least insular church.
6. Therefore Mormons are the true Catholic Church.

Yes, they get my vote.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

This is the third and last time I’ll say this. Talk to you husband and wife “communicate” and if there’s an issue and this isn’t working you need another to intervene be it a priest, counselor etc.

This post was directed to me and it’s a little awkward as I’ve never been married. But thanks for the advice.

If you intended this advice the the Orthodox gentleman Ihad directed my post to, he Is married… to a Catholic who is Not practicing her own Faith, but doesn’t want to become Orthodox either but will attend Orthodox Divine Liturgy with her family. Her husband wants his wife to follow her Faith, but she doesn’t want to. Your advice to involve a priest seems a bit pointless since she’s not following her Faith why would she listen to a priest?

 

[josie_L]

This post was directed to me and it’s a little awkward as I’ve never been married. But thanks for the advice.

If you intended this advice the the Orthodox gentleman Ihad directed my post to, he Is married… to a Catholic who is Not practicing her own Faith, but doesn’t want to become Orthodox either but will attend Orthodox Divine Liturgy with her family. **Her husband wants his wife to follow her Faith, but she doesn’t want to. **Your advice to involve a priest seems a bit pointless since she’s not following her Faith why would she listen to a priest?

I don’t believe that is what DCointin said about his wife, i,e., “she doesn’t want to” follow her (Catholic) faith?

We seem to be in a similar situation. My wife is Catholic, and we’ve been married for about 15 months now. I was also Protestant (Lutheran) before converting to Orthodoxy in the Antiochian Church. We used to attend each other’s services on alternating Sundays until my wife heard some anti-Catholic comments by our priest and members of the parish, and she refused to go back. We joined a new Western Rite mission after that, and have been attending there most Sundays since I became an altar server. She has no interest in becoming Orthodox however, and I’ve never thought it necessary for her to. What concerns me is that she has an obligation to attend Mass each week that she isn’t fulfilling. She isn’t concerned about this, but I am since I have a responsibility for her spiritual wellbeing as her husband. I’m considering Catholicism because of this situation, and studying and dialoguing with a great group of Catholic theology majors. My biggest stumbling block is choosing a potential parish. We have many Catholic parishes here in St. Louis, and some are quite good. I would be most comfortable in an Extraordinary Form parish, and we have two, but my wife feels the Latin is a barrier for her. My other options would be a small Ruthenian mission, or a good Ordinary Form parish. I love western liturgy and patrimony, and I know she would be more comfortable at an Ordinary Form parish so I’m leaning that direction. I struggle with the Ordinary form however, even when it’s celebrated well, so I’m in a perplexing situation. I would never consider doing this if she were not in an apostolic church however. I think your decision was noble, and shows your primary concern for your wife, which is admirable.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

I posted this in the Eastern Catholicism forum as well, but it was suggested I try here too.
I’ve encountered a fair number of individuals who have converted from Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy, but met relatively few who left Eastern Orthodoxy (or Oriental Orthodoxy, for that matter) for Catholicism.
Are any of the Catholics here converts from Orthodoxy? What led you to Catholicism?
(Note, I am posting this because I am interested in hearing and discussing others’ reasons for conversion, not to start a debate of any sort).

I converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy, but I have a Facebook friend who was raised Orthodox, but never believed in it or practiced the Faith on his own but as an adult became caught up with porn, strip clubs & prostitutes who had a “spiritual” experience hearing the voice of Jesus calling him to leave that sinful life behind and because he felt that Orthodoxy couldn’t be the true Faith because he was technically Orthodox while he lived out his addiction to impurity he left the Orthodox Church and eventually joined the Catholic Church.