Any Episcopalians in the house?

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commenter said:
If a TEC church can toss overboard such a basic part of Anglican Tradition, it’s hard to see how they would be much different from the non-denominational congregation that sprang up in 2010, which says they are going to start from scratch, no traditions to bind us.
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I don’t think it is quite that simple. I don’t think for a second that the Episcopal Church, the Church of England, or any other Anglican churches approve of divorce and just tossed marriage overboard. Like the Orthodox, Anglicans see divorce as sin, yet we acknowledge the reality of that sin and the reality that a marriage sometimes breaks down. That being the case, in TEC, a divorced parishioner seeking remarriage in TEC must consult with and seek permission for the bishop before the marriage can take place in a TEC parish. Even then, if the priest doesn’t want to marry the couple, then the priest doesn’t have to marry the couple.
 
Thorolfr said:
How can the indissolubility of marriage be a strong Anglican tradition considering that the Anglican church was founded precisely because of the desire of Henry VIII to dissolve his marriage to Catherine of Aragon?
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(a) No such thing as “the Anglican church”

(b) Church of England was not founded by Henry VIII but dates from the Roman occupation or from St Augustine of Canterbury, according to taste.

(c) Henry VIII didn’t seek a dissolution of his marriage but a decree of nullity.
 
SyroMalankara said:
:confused: anglican.org/church/ChurchHistory.html

So from Rome by occupation, or by Rome through delegation.

Which one?
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Even so, there is no singular entity that can properly be called the Anglican Church. The formal worldwide Anglican Communion is made up of 38 (last time I looked) auto-cephalous, totally independent Churches. None of which can be called The Anglican Church, anymore than any other. And that dos not exhaust the Anglican menagerie. Motley they are.

And which one what?

GKC
 
Thorolfr said:
How can the indissolubility of marriage be a strong Anglican tradition considering that the Anglican church was founded precisely because of the desire of Henry VIII to dissolve his marriage to Catherine of Aragon?
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Nope. Hank sought what was common in his day, a decree of nullity. A decree of nullity does nothing with respect to a valid marriage. It is a declaration that no valid sacramental marriage existed, due to impediments, either absolute, or undispensed diriment impediment(s), normally of consanguinity or affinity, or arising from a variety of technical issues. It is how the system worked, in the day, particularly before the Council of Trent did some minor reforming of it. Hank’s sister Margaret availed herself of that process the same year he submitted his own causa.

My, it’s been a while since I had to rehearse that basic point.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Nope. Hank sought what was common in his day, a decree of nullity. A decree of nullity does nothing with respect to a valid marriage. It is a declaration that no valid sacramental marriage existed, due to impediments, either absolute, or undispensed diriment impediment(s), normally of consanguinity or affinity, or arising from a variety of technical issues. It is how the system worked, in the day, particularly before the Council of Trent did some minor reforming of it. Hank’s sister Margaret availed herself of that process the same year he submitted his own causa.

My, it’s been a while since I had to rehearse that basic point.

GKC
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If Henry was seeking a decree of nullity, why didn’t he pursue it after establishing his own church, instead of murdering his later mistresses?
 
He didn’t establish his own church, but he did get his decree.
 
GKC said:
Figured that. But the question was a little opaque.

GKC
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I was answering SyroMalankara in Post #240. I made no assumption that you were not aware of this. I think you are the one that informed me of this a long time ago. 🙂
 
SyroMalankara said:
If Henry was seeking a decree of nullity, why didn’t he pursue it after establishing his own church, instead of murdering his later mistresses?
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My, your grasp of the relevant history is shaky.

Henry got a decree of nullity from his Archbishop of Canterbury, shortly before he formally broke with Rome, with respect to Katherine of Aragon.

While he had the occasional mistress (Elizabeth Blount in particular), none were murdered. Wife 2 and wife 5 were accused of treason, convicted and executed. #5 was more likely guilty than #2.

To round out the wives, #3 died following childbirth, #4 (a quicky) ended with another decree of nullity and Henry saw her no more. #6 (and #4) outlived him.
 
SteveVH said:
I was answering SyroMalankara in Post #240. I made no assumption that you were not aware of this. I think you are the one that informed me of this a long time ago. 🙂
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Likely I was. I’ve done a lot of Hank stuff, over the years. Hobby, sort of, it is.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Henry got a decree of nullity from his Archbishop of Canterbury, shortly before he formally broke with Rome, with respect to Katherine of Aragon…#4 (a quicky) ended with another decree of nullity
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So if people nowadays used the term “decree of nullity” instead of “divorce,” everything would be OK 😉
 
Thorolfr said:
So if people nowadays used the term “decree of nullity” instead of “divorce,” everything would be OK 😉
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But they do. The RC church issues tens of thousands of such decrees a year. A majority of them, I understand, in the United States.
 
Thorolfr said:
So if people nowadays used the term “decree of nullity” instead of “divorce,” everything would be OK 😉
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Would be better. Helps prevent confusion. Maintains terminological precision. Leads to a better grasp of what the whole system of impediments, dispensations, etc, etc, was, in the day, and how it operated

Though I know some very knowledgeable people who use the divorce term, after explaining what they are doing.

Decree of nullity.

GKC
 
Picky_Picky said:
But they do. The RC church issues tens of thousands of such decrees a year. A majority of them, I understand, in the United States.
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Yep. And they will revolve on a finding of some sort of impediment to the valid confecting of the matrimonial sacrament.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Yep. And they will revolve on a finding of some sort of impediment to the valid confecting of the matrimonial sacrament.

GKC
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Which, of course, was H8’s claim: that the dispensation with regard to his marriage to C of A (which offended the regulations regarding affinity, since she was his sister-in-law) had been improperly granted under constraint.
 
GKC said:
My, your grasp of the relevant history is shaky.

Henry got a decree of nullity from his Archbishop of Canterbury, shortly before he formally broke with Rome, with respect to Katherine of Aragon.

While he had the occasional mistress (Elizabeth Blount in particular), none were murdered. Wife 2 and wife 5 were accused of treason, convicted and executed. #5 was more likely guilty than #2.

To round out the wives, #3 died following childbirth, #4 (a quicky) ended with another decree of nullity and Henry saw her no more. #6 (and #4) outlived him.
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Why trump up charges against either #2 or #5 at all?
 
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