Any ex-pro-life staunchly pro-choicers out there?

[mark_a]

If so, tell us your story and how you became pro-choice.

Believe it or not, I’m not baiting. I’ve just wondered if the door swings both ways.

 

[laura_kathleen]

Depending on what you mean by pro-choice, I am. When I say pro-choice I mean that I think every baby that is conceived should be treated like a human being and notkilled, but I cannot imagine what it is to be pregnant with a rapists child, and I think pro-life has to go farther than the birth if a child will simply die of starvation or be neglected or worse abused then is it truly a service to that child to bring them into the world? So in some cases, more than the Catholic Church, I am understanding of an abortion. When it comes to laws of the United States, I do not support anti-abortion laws, because even though I truly believe it is a life and it is murder I also think that there are extenuating circumstances and I think that outlawing abortion will not olve the problem, women will still have abortions ut instead of going to a doctor in a sterile environment they will do with coat hangers or other dangerous and scary things. So if that is what you consider pro-choice then I am a Catholic who is also pro-choice. As far as ex-pro-life, I am that but only in the sense that I was pro-life because the Church is so sure it is the right way and I had not developed my fully informed conscionce (sorry for the spelling).

 

[jtoth]

Depending on what you mean by pro-choice, I am. When I say pro-choice I mean that I think every baby that is conceived should be treated like a human being and notkilled, but I cannot imagine what it is to be pregnant with a rapists child, and I think pro-life has to go farther than the birth if a child will simply die of starvation or be neglected or worse abused then is it truly a service to that child to bring them into the world? So in some cases, more than the Catholic Church, I am understanding of an abortion. When it comes to laws of the United States, I do not support anti-abortion laws, because even though I truly believe it is a life and it is murder I also think that there are extenuating circumstances and I think that outlawing abortion will not olve the problem, women will still have abortions ut instead of going to a doctor in a sterile environment they will do with coat hangers or other dangerous and scary things. So if that is what you consider pro-choice then I am a Catholic who is also pro-choice. As far as ex-pro-life, I am that but only in the sense that I was pro-life because the Church is so sure it is the right way and I had not developed my fully informed conscionce (sorry for the spelling).

Ditto…I couldn’t have said it better. That is exactly how I feel. As much as I would hate to think of a living child being killed there are certain extreme circumstances.

 

[OraLabora]

I also think that there are extenuating circumstances

Caveat: I was adopted in infancy, so my objectivity may be suspect.

That out of the way, all I can say is there are no extenuating circumstances outside of, say an ectopic pregnancy, or another condition that directly affects the woman’s ability to survive gestation and childbirth.

In North America there is a shortage of infants to adopt. Unlike myself in 1958 when abortion was illegal and considered immoral, most unwanted infants today end up as pathological waste. I was lucky to have been conceived when I was.

I think that outlawing abortion will not olve the problem, women will still have abortions ut instead of going to a doctor in a sterile environment they will do with coat hangers or other dangerous and scary things.

What are the actual statistics on “coat hangar” abortions? In any case two wrongs don’t make a right. Human rights are for all humans, and humanity starts at conception when the fetus possesses the entire genetic material of an individual.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

With respect, Laura, aren’t you only factoring in the ‘health and welfare’ of only one of the two people involved?

Doesn’t the innocent unborn (whether the child of a ‘rapist’ or not) have some right to be born? Why is he–or she–condemned to death not for any personal sin but because of the actions of another person?

Adoption is an alternative, and God knows people are waiting.

I guess I’m just an old fogy but I can’t see that killing an innocent child is going to ‘relieve’ the mother (or the father.) Does killing the child ‘wipe out’ the rape? Does killing the child suddenly make the woman’s future life one of endless joyful possibility? Have we women especially so lost sight of who we are --those privileged to bring children into the world to love and care for–that we can --with a crocodile tear or two–be willing to snuff out that life by tearing a child into pieces, or burning them alive with saline–because we feel that this child’s mere existence would cause another person so much ‘emotional pain’ that the child’s life just isn’t worth it???

 

[jtoth]

Looking back on my response…I did not think of adoption.

 

[MoonChild02]

The reasons you all give for being pro-“choice” are things that we have to work on in order to eliminate the “need” for abortion. Read what pro-life feminist Serrin Foster has written in her essay “Women Deserve Better Than Abortion”: feministsforlife.org/news/WDBSMF150.pdf

There are even things that you can do for ectopic pregnancies: cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=57

64% of abortions are forced. 80% of women who have had an abortion didn’t know that there was another choice. They were never helped. They were never offered help. They didn’t know that there are people willing to help them, house them, give them jobs, money, food, items for the child, babysitting, people willing to help them get through school and achieve their dreams.

There is no reason to be pro-choice, other than to eliminate a child coming into this world. Abortion is anti-women, anti-life, pro-cancer, pro-eugenics, pro-slavery, racist, masculist, etc.

No child should be unwanted. No woman should be forced into a choice they don’t want to make. Abortion backs women into a corner. Abortion is not the answer. Support, love, and care are the answer.

 

[grace_singh]

With respect, Laura, aren’t you only factoring in the ‘health and welfare’ of only one of the two people involved?

Doesn’t the innocent unborn (whether the child of a ‘rapist’ or not) have some right to be born? Why is he–or she–condemned to death not for any personal sin but because of the actions of another person?

Adoption is an alternative, and God knows people are waiting.

I guess I’m just an old fogy but I can’t see that killing an innocent child is going to ‘relieve’ the mother (or the father.) Does killing the child ‘wipe out’ the rape? Does killing the child suddenly make the woman’s future life one of endless joyful possibility? Have we women especially so lost sight of who we are --those privileged to bring children into the world to love and care for–that we can --with a crocodile tear or two–be willing to snuff out that life by tearing a child into pieces, or burning them alive with saline–because we feel that this child’s mere existence would cause another person so much ‘emotional pain’ that the child’s life just isn’t worth it???

very, very well said.

 

[budgie2]

I can’t see why anybody would be pro-choice as everybody has been an unborn child and I could have also been aborted when I grew inside my mother’s womb. I’ve got a close family member who had a mother who was a back street abortionist and he was stabbed with pitchforks, child raped and child abused, there was incest in the family and he was also forced to beg for food. She aborted two of his siblings and sold another two and he was the only one left in their hands. He’s still suffering from trauma and he’s in his late fifties. The woman in question should have been banged up for life.

 

[stringbeanduck]

and I think pro-life has to go farther than the birth if a child will simply die of starvation or be neglected or worse abused then is it truly a service to that child to bring them into the world?

Translation: Give the child a gruesome death before it enters the world so it doesn’t have to deal with a bad environment even though adoption is possible for the kid after it is born.

I’m sorry but this is still gravely contradictory to value of human life. God has plan for all His children, thus it is an insult to God and try to kill them.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Sad that you call yourself Catholic and your informed conscience…turns out, really isn’t all that informed.

. As far as ex-pro-life, I am that but only in the sense that I was pro-life because the Church is so sure it is the right way and I had not developed my fully informed conscionce (sorry for the spelling).

 

[mark_a]

Depending on what you mean by pro-choice, I am. When I say pro-choice I mean that I think every baby that is conceived should be treated like a human being and notkilled, but I cannot imagine what it is to be pregnant with a rapists child, and I think pro-life has to go farther than the birth if a child will simply die of starvation or be neglected or worse abused then is it truly a service to that child to bring them into the world? So in some cases, more than the Catholic Church, I am understanding of an abortion. When it comes to laws of the United States, I do not support anti-abortion laws, because even though I truly believe it is a life and it is murder I also think that there are extenuating circumstances and I think that outlawing abortion will not olve the problem, women will still have abortions ut instead of going to a doctor in a sterile environment they will do with coat hangers or other dangerous and scary things. So if that is what you consider pro-choice then I am a Catholic who is also pro-choice.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

As far as ex-pro-life, I am that but only in the sense that I was pro-life because the Church is so sure it is the right way and I had not developed my fully informed conscionce (sorry for the spelling)

I’m not sure I understand the above.

 

[OraLabora]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Any response on the abortion issue that does not even remotely consider the possibility of adoption is not “thoughtful”.

It is rather, poorly thought out.

 

[Rence]

Depending on what you mean by pro-choice, I am. When I say pro-choice I mean that I think every baby that is conceived should be treated like a human being and notkilled, but I cannot imagine what it is to be pregnant with a rapists child,

**Neither can I, and I Thank God every day that I can’t. IMOHO, It takes a special person to try not to prevent a pregnacy in the case of rape. To me it seems like that would a reflexive form of self-defense in which the urge would be hard to overcome. And I certainly am not arrogant enough to claim to know what I would do in someone else’s life and situation. I truly don’t know what I would do in that situation, but I do know it could go either way for me. I know how I feel about it today. But I’ve been known to change my mind in the moment, for better or worse. I just pray every day I that I don’t have to go through that horror. **

and I think pro-life has to go farther than the birth if a child will simply die of starvation or be neglected or worse abused then is it truly a service to that child to bring them into the world? So in some cases, more than the Catholic Church, I am understanding of an abortion.

** There are too many resources for pregnant women to count. Not only Catholic and non-Catholic Charity organizations, but even Medicaid. I know more people who paid nothing for prenatal care, the birth of their child, and their children’s after care until they were in their teens than I can count. In addition, they get food stamps and WIC forms for their child until their child goes to school. After that, they qualify for free lunches. And if the mother still qualifies, they can still get food stamps. There’s a lot of help out there for women who want their child, but think they can’t afford to have their baby. No one should be coerced into having an abortion. That said, it’s our job to educate them about the resources out there for them. And if they still don’t think they can do it, adoption is a great alternative.

But then again, (and I know this is just MOHO) I just don’t get why women are allowing themselves to get pregnant in the first place, if they know they don’t want them or think they can’t have them for whatever reason. I never did understand that. **

 

[flyingfish]

I was 100% pro-life, now I am pro-choice. I became pro-choice when I realized that I was pro-life only because I was supposed to be. I don’t think that embryos are persons, they don’t have thoughts or plans for the future, so feel the wishes of the woman are a far more important consideration for me.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I was 100% pro-life, now I am pro-choice. I became pro-choice when I realized that I was pro-life only because I was supposed to be. I don’t think that embryos are persons, they don’t have thoughts or plans for the future, so feel the wishes of the woman are a far more important consideration for me.

Neither do will you if you develop a mental illness. Should you not be considered a person at that point? What about baby that’s 1 min from being born. I assume it’s okay to abort it too?

Come to think of it a 6 month old ‘doesn’t have plans for the future’ too, so by your logic we can go ahead and kill it too if it become a nuisance right?

 

[Abu]

Feelings and imagination have no place in reasoning and in fidelity to Christ in His Church.

Since every embryo is a human person, not one may be killed for what ever reason – or lack thereof.

Since the West is dying for lack of children, we need stable marriages committed to procreation without the falsity of contraception, but knowledgeable about Natural Birth Regulation should there be sufficient reason for its use.

Instead of governments attacking families, we need adequate family allowances for each child in a marriage up to teenage, for mothers who choose to stay at home to care for their children.

 

[vera_dicere]

Ditto…I couldn’t have said it better. That is exactly how I feel. As much as I would hate to think of a living child being killed there are certain extreme circumstances.

This is the sort of logic that shows a short sightedness or inability to understand the ramifications of such logic.

Extreme circumstances can still exist after birth. What if a woman is married, with a husband and three other children, she has a job and is finanically stable. Then on their way back from the hospital they get into a car accident and the husband is killed, the baby injured so she will never walk again, and it is revealed one of the other children has a brain tumour.

The funeral for her husband is expensive, and his life insurance policy has lapsed. The child with the brain tumour, their cancer treatment will be expensive as well. The woman’s other two children have serious mental trauma and need expensive mental health intervention. And all the while the injured baby is taking time and valuable resources.

These are extreme circumstances, and your logic dictates that the newborn can be culled.

No child should be killed becuase of a circumstance, no matter how grave. Society can do better for women then offer to kill their children.

If you lot accept the unborn child is a life and killing it is wrong, why the heck are you supporting killing that child for circumstances that can be altered and dealt with?

To kill a child based on a circumstance is morally repugnant and an indication of a very sick society.

 

[vera_dicere]

I was 100% pro-life, now I am pro-choice. I became pro-choice when I realized that I was pro-life only because I was supposed to be. I don’t think that embryos are persons, they don’t have thoughts or plans for the future, so feel the wishes of the woman are a far more important consideration for me.

A new born baby does not have thoughts or plans for the future.

An intellectually disabled person is in teh same boat.

An individual with brain damage is in the same boat.

Should we disregard their lives? Should we script poorly written laws to kill them based on what we preceive as their lack of planning?

The embryo is a human being, the zygote is a human being, the foetus, baby, toddler, child, adolescent, adult, all human beings and all at different stages of development. No one should be allowed to be culled based on their stage of development, its dispicable.

 

[flyingfish]

Neither do will you if you develop a mental illness. Should you not be considered a person at that point? What about baby that’s 1 min from being born. I assume it’s okay to abort it too?

Come to think of it a 6 month old ‘doesn’t have plans for the future’ too, so by your logic we can go ahead and kill it too if it become a nuisance right?

A new born baby does not have thoughts or plans for the future.

An intellectually disabled person is in teh same boat.

An individual with brain damage is in the same boat.

Should we disregard their lives? Should we script poorly written laws to kill them based on what we preceive as their lack of planning?

The embryo is a human being, the zygote is a human being, the foetus, baby, toddler, child, adolescent, adult, all human beings and all at different stages of development. No one should be allowed to be culled based on their stage of development, its dispicable.

Mental illnesses and disabilities are not on the level of not having a consciousness at all.

If someone is brain dead, I think they are no longer a person. I am not sure at what age babies start to have thoughts/become self aware. My own earliest memories are from about 2 years old.

Until the self awareness is there, I wouldn’t call it a person, but that’s my personal opinion.