any former mormons out there?

[Jerusha]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

well named.

Give it up, dude, you will not convert any of us. You only help us understand better why NOT to convert.

 

[truthsilence]

Joseph Smith was a heritic who claimed God was once a man just like Zerinus.

Of couse Zerinus doesn’t want to deal with that heresy, because deep down inside he knows that’s exactly what it is. By ignoring the question, Zerinus himself is fighting againt the Holy Spirit whom he claims the rest of us here don’t know anything about.

I’d call that blasphemy.

 

[Allweather]

Whew!

Thank God for Zerinus!

We couldn’t have invented better arguments against Mormonism if he’d have been a CA plant.

Surely, Zerinus is some sort of angel from Heaven, sent to witness the fallaciousness of Mormonism before a wondering world.

 

[Nan_S]

I wouldn’t dream of “hoping” for any such a thing. I don’t believe for a moment that you do know for certain that any of those miraculous events really took place. The only way that you could know for certain that they happened would be by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost; and I don’t believe that you have that. If you did, you would also know by the same means that the Book of Mormon is true.

So now we see the new standard of belief: “Because the Holy Ghost told me so.” Yet although Jesus blessed those who believed without evidence, he also offered evidence for those who needed it, and ensured we had eye-witness testimony carefully recorded, safeguarded, and accurately transmitted through the ages.

Jn 13:19 Jesus said, “From now on I am telling you before it happens, so that when it happens you may believe that I AM.”
Jn 19:35 He who saw it has borne witness–his testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth–that you also may believe.
Jn 20:30-31 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

Now you are telling me that all the corroborating evidence Jesus gave is worthless, but if I switch off the brain God gave me and rely solely on a “warm fuzzy” all things will be revealed. I might consider that if the brain was from Satan, but God was the one who gave it to me.

How do you know that those miraculous events described in the Bible are not fables? If you have such compelling evidence for them, why don’t you go and tell the atheists?They think that these are all old fables. That is why they don’t believe. If your evidence is so convincing, why don’t you go and convert them all?

I won’t because atheism isn’t really about analyzing proof of God at all. Atheism is about authority and self. The atheist decalers the proof of God to be fables and refuses to believe because he ultimately wants to be accountable only to himself. If the atheist were to acknowledge God’s existence, he would also have to acknowledge God’s authority. Therefore, the atheist sets a moving-target standard of proof so extreme that no person and no god could meet it.

All I am asking for from the Mormons is some corroborating evidence that the “warm fuzzy” you wish I would accept is from the warmth of heaven and not the fires of Gehenna. You have answered by saying that I have to receive the “warm fuzzy” first. The reason I won’t is not because I won’t accept God’s authority, but because I fear for the security of my immortal soul.

Do you know how much opposition Joseph Smith faced when he began translating the Book of Mormon? Do you know what strenuous efforts were made to destroy his work and prevent him from accomplishing what God had commanded him to do? Did you know that he lost the first 116 pages of the translated manuscript of the Book of Mormon because he was naive enough to trust others whom God had not commended? It was only through the miraculous intervention and preservation of God that he was able to face the opposition, and accomplish the work of the Lord at all.

Miraculous intervention, or random chance and human effort? It is no miracle for a man to stand up in the face of opposition and persuade others to follow him. What are the details of this miracle you now proclaim to me?

Other ancient books were also stolen and had pages ripped out. The 9th century midieval Irish book of the gospels called The Book of Kells, which is now housed at Trinity University in Dublin, Ireland, is one of them; its thieves tried to ensure its destruction by burying it in a peat bog. Although we thank God that the remnants were eventually recovered mostly intact, there was nothing supernaturatural about its preservation.

(continued)

 

[Nan_S]

(continued)

But God did not leave His work without witnesses. First, there were three witnesses to whom the plates and other artefacts were shown by the miraculous power of God, whose testimonies are printed in the Book of Mormon. After that there were eight other witnesses to whom Joseph Smith showed the plates, who have likewise testified of them.

The miracles of God performed by Jesus and through Moses and Elijah, and the miracles performed by the original Apostles in Jesus’ name, were done publicly for all to see. The eye-witness testimony carefully recorded in writing was affirmed by thousands of other contemporary eye-witnesses who reacted, not by writing against it or trying to destroy it, but by copying it and distributing it.

Your testimony of three witnesses and eight witnesses was of private witness, and is uncorroborated outside of the three and the eight. The three said they knew the translation to be accurate, not because they independently verified the translation, but because “his voice hath declared it unto us.” The eight were members of two families, three of whom were named “Smith” (Joseph’s kin?) who merely said they handled plates appearing to be gold, which appeared to be ancient and had curious workmanship.

That’s not the least bit convincing.

[Joseph Smith was shot in a gunbattle. He may have been praying.] Peter was crucified upside down. Jesus was crucified right side up. And Paul was beheaded. They may have been praying.
Joseph Smith’s followers eventually started a food bank.] And the disciples of Jesus had “all things in common” (Acts 2:44; 4:32).
[Jesus was and is God.] How do you know?

My point here, which you seem to have missed, is that Jesus, Moses, and Elijah prayed and performed miracles over food, the elements of nature, and life and death itself. Joseph Smith merely said, “Here, I have this book.”

You are now asking me to prove to you the truth of Mormonism by miracles! Actually, there are many recorded instances of Joseph Smith and the early saints and Apostles performing miracles; but I am not going to relate them here for the following reason:
The unbelieving Jews asked Jesus exactly the same question, and got this answer from Him:
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

You’re going to try to answer me with Jesus’ Bread of Life discourse? Jesus answered that He is the Bread of Life, and one year later handed it to them in a form they could literally chew and digest. No help for you here.

I’ve come to believe that you’re not going to relate Joseph Smith’s miracles here, not because you think I’d sneer at them, but because you don’t know what they are. You’ve been told there are miracles, and you believe it because you have a “warm fuzzy” about it. But you don’t really have any details to offer. Declaring me “apostate,” “unbeliever” and comparing me to the “wicked and adulterous generation” does absolutely nothing to reinforce your unsubstantiated claims.

(continued)

 

[Nan_S]

(continued)

Zerinus:

Matthew 16:
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
zerinus

Oh ye of oversimplicity. This happened immediately after Jesus fed the four thousand, which was itself after Jesus fed the five thousand. And the Pharisees and Sadducees were saying even that was not good enough. They wanted a custom-made miracle just for them. Yet even here Jesus proclaimed that another sign would be given to them, and it was.

All you have been able to offer me is a book and “warm fuzzy,” coupled with threats that I refuse to believe at my own peril. I assure you, I am extremely serious about the holiness of my immortal soul and my resurrection. Jesus warned us strenuously about deceivers and false prophets. This is why I treat uncorroborated claims with serious skepticism. How do I know that your “warm fuzzy” is warm from the warmth of heaven, and not the fires of Gehenna?

You have no evidence of miracles. You have no testimony of archaeology. You have no verifiable ancient documents. You have no carefully recorded and preserved eyewitness accounts. You have no corroborating testimony that what was proclaimed or translated is accurate and true. The Catholic church does have all of these evidences, and they have already been offered to you for examination.

Yet despite this lack of evidence for Mormonism, you want me throw out everything Catholic then pray and ask for “a quiet assurance… through feelings, thoughts, and impressions” (Mormon tract, “The Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ”, page 16). Sorry, not interested.

Mt 24:9-13 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. But he who endures to the end will be saved.”

Nan

 

[zerinus]

You have written a lot and said very little—just rehashing the same old things. You seem to be of the persuasion that you shall be “heard for your much speaking” (Matt 6:7). The weaker your arguments get, the longer your posts become! Well, I am not going to respond in kind, otherwise I should be writing a “term paper” every time. But I will briefly highlight the main points—which are not many:

So now we see the new standard of belief: “Because the Holy Ghost told me so.” Yet although Jesus blessed those who believed without evidence, he also offered evidence for those who needed it, and ensured we had eye-witness testimony carefully recorded, safeguarded, and accurately transmitted through the ages.

He performed His miracles for the benefit of those who believed, not those that believed not. When he was among those that believed not, He performed no or few miracles; and He only did it for the benefit of the few among them that did believe:

Mark 6:

4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

This has now become your new mantra—demanding signs to believe! I am not going to fulfil that demand for you, because it is actually a sin to demand signs to believe. It is a sin for those who demand it, and an even bigger sin for anyone who tries to supply it. As I told you before, there were miracles; and if you are genuinely interested, you can study the early history of the Church, and life of Joseph Smith, and find that for yourself. But the Lord has commanded us not to seek signs to believe:

D&C 63:

7 And he that seeketh signs shall see signs, but not unto salvation.

8 Verily, I say unto you, there are those among you who seek signs, and there have been such even from the beginning;

9 But, behold, faith cometh not by signs, but signs follow those that believe.

10 Yea, signs come by faith, not by the will of men, nor as they please, but by the will of God.

11 Yea, signs come by faith, unto mighty works, for without faith no man pleaseth God; and with whom God is angry he is not well pleased; wherefore, unto such he showeth no signs, only in wrath unto their condemnation.

12 Wherefore, I, the Lord, am not pleased with those among you who have sought after signs and wonders for faith, and not for the good of men unto my glory.

All I am asking for from the Mormons is some corroborating evidence that the “warm fuzzy” you wish I would accept is from the warmth of heaven and not the fires of Gehenna. You have answered by saying that I have to receive the “warm fuzzy” first. The reason I won’t is not because I won’t accept God’s authority, but because I fear for the security of my immortal soul.

You call it a “warm fuzzy,” I call it the testimony of the Holy Ghost. It is another sin to deny the efficacy of the Holy Ghost, and call it a “warm fuzzy”. The scriptures testify to us that it is by the Holy Spirit of God that we can know the truth:

John 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 14:

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 12:

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

By the last clause I understand to mean that no one can know that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost; because anybody can say that Jesus is Lord, even if he is an unbeliever. Knowledge that Jesus is the Christ can only come by the Holy Ghost, and in no other way:

Acts 1:

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Divine truth can only be known by the power of the Spirit of God:

Hebrews 10:

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: . . .

zerinus

 

[truthsilence]

It is another sin to deny the efficacy of the Holy Ghost

Then QUIT doing it!

Was God once a man or not? What does the Holy Spirit tell YOU?

 

[Nan_S]

This has now become your new mantra—demanding signs to believe! I am not going to fulfil that demand for you, because it is actually a sin to demand signs to believe. It is a sin for those who demand it, and an even bigger sin for anyone who tries to supply it. As I told you before, there were miracles; and if you are genuinely interested, you can study the early history of the Church, and life of Joseph Smith, and find that for yourself. But the Lord has commanded us not to seek signs to believe:

I see you’ve quoted out of the D&C which backs up your assertion that we first need to accept with blind faith, then other things will be revealed. If that were truly the intent of the Holy Ghost, then as I encountered and blindly accepted previously unlearned “truths” I would have spent the last 30 years bouncing from Catholic to Baptist, to Episcopal, to Mormon, to Pentecostal, to Church of Christ, back to Catholic, to Baptist again… My immortal soul would not only be hopelessly confused, but in dire peril of damnation.

Your new twist is to condemn any approach other than blind acceptance as a “sin.” No, my friend, genuine truth is open to inspection and unafraid of questions. It does not demand blind acceptance before understanding.

You tell me to study the history of your church, but you make no recommendations as to which accurate histories would be beneficial reading, nor as to which biased histories should be avoided. I get the impression you don’t know the history of your church well enough to make any such recommendations. I’ve spent enough time doing your research for you, and see no point in continuing.

I asked for non-miraculous, historical evidence. You had none to offer. I asked for evidence of signs, not with the intent of God granting me my own personal miracle (which would be a sinful request), but rather with the intent of learning from the miraculous evidence already provided that testified to the truth of the revelations through Joseph Smith and his successors. You say it exists but again had none to offer, and now tell me that if you even tried you yourself would be sinning.

If this is the way your ward and stake handle questioners, and if your are comfortable with that answer, then so be it. Someone who shuts down questions in this way often has something to hide, or has no basis for his position, or is just on a power-trip. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are masters at this tactic.

Rest assured that I do not wish to prod you into sin, but rather to awaken you to genuine truth. The Catholic church has no fear of questions.

You call it a “warm fuzzy,” I call it the testimony of the Holy Ghost. It is another sin to deny the efficacy of the Holy Ghost, and call it a “warm fuzzy”. The scriptures testify to us that it is by the Holy Spirit of God that we can know the truth:

zerinus
I absolutely do not deny the testimony of the Holy Ghost. I never have. What I see is that the testimony and teachings of the Mormons are very, very different from any monotheistic or Christian teaching recorded and preserved from of old. I’m referring to teachings like gods instead of God, man being able to become a god, and being sealed in marriage for all eternity, among others.

Therefore, I question whether this “quiet assurance… through feelings, thoughts, and impressions” truly is the testimony of the Holy Ghost, or is of some more malevolent source that would imperil my immortal soul.

And so again I ask, how do I know? Absent any corroborative evidence, I fear the “burning” reassurance of blind faith in the Mormon church is simply my first taste of the fires of Gehenna.

Unless you have something more to offer, there’s not much point in continuing.

Nan

 

[GIMJ]

I don’t want to talk about the wrongness of Mormonism. I’ve been there and it’s a horrible and bitter place to be. I’d rather instead talk about the rightness of Christianity.

I’m not sure what kind of Mormon I am to be considered. I still have my LDS membership, I still go to meetings each Sunday and perform an active role…but I believe in Christianity and feel that the Catholic Church fills the role of Christ’s Church that we read about in the Bible.

If there is any reason to fear the Mormons, it’s because they are doing some things better than the Catholics, and one thing in particular: The Mormons have an evangelical program second to none of which I am aware. Whereas the Mormons work very hard (nonstop, in fact) to share their beliefs, I have been trying for a very long time to join the Catholic Church and have not been successful. I can guarantee you that if someone walked into a Mormon church and said, “I’m not a member of your Church, but I have read its history, I’ve read your scriptures and studied your doctrines, and I believe that I ought to be baptized,” that person would be dunked in water by week’s end. I, on the other hand, go to four parishes and tell the priest, “I’ve read and continue to study the Bible in great depth, I’ve read the Didache and other early Christian writings, I’ve studied the theology and history, engaged the apologists, have prayed and feel that God wants me to become a Catholic,” and I’m no closer to my baptism than I was before I even considered the Catholic Church! If the Catholic Church were still obeying Christ’s Great Commission, they would have an evangelical force that would put the Mormon elders to shame. Until then, I’ll settle for a Catholic Church that tries to keep its own and will at least welcome in the people who beg them too.

 

[nd_smc_02]

Why do my Mormon friends call themselves Christians when they do not believe that Jesus is/was God?

 

[nd_smc_02]

Another question: How do Mormons explain the contradictions found between the Book of Mormon and King Follet’s Discourse regarding the divinity and exisitence of God?

 

[truthsilence]

I don’t want to talk about the wrongness of Mormonism. I’ve been there and it’s a horrible and bitter place to be. I’d rather instead talk about the rightness of Christianity.

I’m not sure what kind of Mormon I am to be considered. I still have my LDS membership, I still go to meetings each Sunday and perform an active role…but I believe in Christianity and feel that the Catholic Church fills the role of Christ’s Church that we read about in the Bible.

If there is any reason to fear the Mormons, it’s because they are doing some things better than the Catholics, and one thing in particular: The Mormons have an evangelical program second to none of which I am aware. Whereas the Mormons work very hard (nonstop, in fact) to share their beliefs, I have been trying for a very long time to join the Catholic Church and have not been successful. I can guarantee you that if someone walked into a Mormon church and said, “I’m not a member of your Church, but I have read its history, I’ve read your scriptures and studied your doctrines, and I believe that I ought to be baptized,” that person would be dunked in water by week’s end. I, on the other hand, go to four parishes and tell the priest, “I’ve read and continue to study the Bible in great depth, I’ve read the Didache and other early Christian writings, I’ve studied the theology and history, engaged the apologists, have prayed and feel that God wants me to become a Catholic,” and I’m no closer to my baptism than I was before I even considered the Catholic Church! If the Catholic Church were still obeying Christ’s Great Commission, they would have an evangelical force that would put the Mormon elders to shame. Until then, I’ll settle for a Catholic Church that tries to keep its own and will at least welcome in the people who beg them too.

GIMJ,

Are you in Utah? I’m only asking because you’re LDS and there are lots of them here! If so, I have a recommendation for you with regards to your interest in the Catholic church.

I was just discussing with a friend this evening, who said he likes the way the Catholic church is such a “personal” faith. How he hates it when he attends certain Protestant churches with his Dad, and they ask for all the new people to raise their hand and/or come up front for an introduction (or an altar call).

I’m sorry you’ve had such difficulty. Don’t give up.

God bless,
ts

 

[GIMJ]

GIMJ,

Are you in Utah? I’m only asking because you’re LDS and there are lots of them here! If so, I have a recommendation for you with regards to your interest in the Catholic church.

I was just discussing with a friend this evening, who said he likes the way the Catholic church is such a “personal” faith. How he hates it when he attends certain Protestant churches with his Dad, and they ask for all the new people to raise their hand and/or come up front for an introduction (or an altar call).

I’m sorry you’ve had such difficulty. Don’t give up.

God bless,
ts

No, I’m not in Utah, but sometimes I feel that I might as well be. I live in Utah’s Mexico, at least according to people I know in the “hills of Zion.”

Whatever…I just prefer to think of them as being my Canada

 

[Allweather]

I don’t want to talk about the wrongness of Mormonism. I’ve been there and it’s a horrible and bitter place to be. I’d rather instead talk about the rightness of Christianity.

I’m not sure what kind of Mormon I am to be considered. I still have my LDS membership, I still go to meetings each Sunday and perform an active role…but I believe in Christianity and feel that the Catholic Church fills the role of Christ’s Church that we read about in the Bible.

If there is any reason to fear the Mormons, it’s because they are doing some things better than the Catholics, and one thing in particular: The Mormons have an evangelical program second to none of which I am aware. Whereas the Mormons work very hard (nonstop, in fact) to share their beliefs, I have been trying for a very long time to join the Catholic Church and have not been successful. I can guarantee you that if someone walked into a Mormon church and said, “I’m not a member of your Church, but I have read its history, I’ve read your scriptures and studied your doctrines, and I believe that I ought to be baptized,” that person would be dunked in water by week’s end. I, on the other hand, go to four parishes and tell the priest, “I’ve read and continue to study the Bible in great depth, I’ve read the Didache and other early Christian writings, I’ve studied the theology and history, engaged the apologists, have prayed and feel that God wants me to become a Catholic,” and I’m no closer to my baptism than I was before I even considered the Catholic Church! If the Catholic Church were still obeying Christ’s Great Commission, they would have an evangelical force that would put the Mormon elders to shame. Until then, I’ll settle for a Catholic Church that tries to keep its own and will at least welcome in the people who beg them too.

I had much the same feelings back in the mid-80s when I came out of fundamentalist Protestantism. I was really shocked at how hard it was to become a Catholic. All I can say is, trust that the methods of the Catholic Church are perfect. The priests will tend to slow you down. You are in a hurry. You’re accustomed to a church that is far more interested in membership numbers and tithes than it is the destiny of your soul, let alone the quality of your faith life here on Earth. Just slow down. Pray. Pray. Then pray some more. Odds are, in spite of all your recent study and conviction, there are still things that you have not come to grips with. For me, even 20+ years down the Catholic road, I am STILL finding things that are unresolved from my days as a fundamentalist. People don’t come out of these cults and sects overnight. When the day comes that you are baptized, and then confirmed into the True Church, you will know that you haven’t just hopped into bed with another cult magician… you’re now in the Real Thing, and your patience will be well-rewarded with a good faith that leads to eternal life.

 

[Allweather]

Therefore, I question whether this “quiet assurance… through feelings, thoughts, and impressions” truly is the testimony of the Holy Ghost, or is of some more malevolent source that would imperil my immortal soul.

And so again I ask, how do I know? Absent any corroborative evidence, I fear the “burning” reassurance of blind faith in the Mormon church is simply my first taste of the fires of Gehenna.
Nan

To my simplistic way of thinking, the very best way to know which conviction of the Holy Spirit, yours, or a Mormon’s, is real, is to examine where that conviction leads. If it leads to union with the Universal Church, then it is more than likely real. If it leads into schism, heresy, cultism, then it cannot be real. No complicated arguments are necessary. The cults will always try to lead you down convoluted pathways, claiming apostasies and scriptural errors.

When we look at Mormons, among the other various cults, we find heresy upon heresy, disunion with the Universal Church, in fact, hatred for the Universal Church and its Holy Father, the Pope. We find obnoxious practices, like polygamy. And many other things, such as their ridiculous teachings concerning the evolution of God from man, Kolob, Celestial sex, etc. From these things, we can know for certain that the Mormon burning in the bosom is a false thing, either self-generated, or induced by evil spirits.

 

[Nan_S]

To my simplistic way of thinking, the very best way to know which conviction of the Holy Spirit, yours, or a Mormon’s, is real, is to examine where that conviction leads. If it leads to union with the Universal Church, then it is more than likely real. If it leads into schism, heresy, cultism, then it cannot be real. No complicated arguments are necessary. The cults will always try to lead you down convoluted pathways, claiming apostasies and scriptural errors.

When we look at Mormons, among the other various cults, we find heresy upon heresy, disunion with the Universal Church, in fact, hatred for the Universal Church and its Holy Father, the Pope. We find obnoxious practices, like polygamy. And many other things, such as their ridiculous teachings concerning the evolution of God from man, Kolob, Celestial sex, etc. From these things, we can know for certain that the Mormon burning in the bosom is a false thing, either self-generated, or induced by evil spirits.

You’ve made my point more eloquently than I did.

Nan

 

[zerinus]

You’ve made my point more eloquently than I did.

Nan

Admit it Nan; you have lost the argument against LDS. You have nothing further to say.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

Admit it Nan; you have lost the argument against LDS. You have nothing further to say.

zerinus

I, for one, disagree. Nan argues the works very well, and consistently outmaneuvers Zerinus.

Nan has spent literally hours patiently arguing with Zerinus, very lovingly trying to show him the way out of the hole he’s in. While some others, especially me, have been more pushy with Zerinus, Nan has consistently gone a kinder, gentler course with him, preferring to elevate his Mormon heresies onto a level playing field with orthodoxy, as a matter of politeness, even fairplay. And Zerinus has lost the arguments, except in his own fevered mind.

This is the same Zerinus who argued so passionately, if erroneously, in favor of polygamy, particularly Mormon polygamy as practiced by the Mormon patriarchs, and, he hopes, someday to be practiced by himself. (BTW I am assuming Zerinus to be a man, as it seems unlikely to my Christian mentality that any woman could be as enthusiastic about polygamy and adultery as a Mormon man might be).

I’ll give Zerinus credit: he doesn’t run away from Mormon doctrine the way rmcmullen does. Zerinus stands his ground. He’s a proud polygamist, and he intends to have his virgins in heaven. Or am I confusing Mormons with Islams? I guess, when you get right down to it, there probably isn’t all that much difference between them. False prophets and phony doctrines, polygamy, heavenly sex… maybe it isn’t so strange that some have called Joseph Smith the American Mohammed.

 

[Nan_S]

Admit it Nan; you have lost the argument against LDS. You have nothing further to say.

zerinus

I’m admitting nothing. You haven’t proven anything, just denied, denied, denied…

You go ahead and cling to your feelings, thoughts, and impressions. And by all means, don’t bother to do any research into your church’s history. It would be a sin.

As for me, I’ve got to rotate the tires on my car.

Now if you want to discuss a different topic than what we’ve already exhausted, by all means bring it up. On a JW thread you mentioned you had disagreements with what you read in the Catholic Answers tract, Forgiveness of Sins. That should be interesting…

Nan

(Side note to Allweather: Maybe rmcmullen is re-thinking his religious position and returning to his Catholic roots.)