any former mormons out there?

[JonathanKinsman]

Let me assure you that I don’t intend to continue with this thread

if your strategy is to play stupid and hope that nobody will find out. I can find more useful tings to preoccupy my brains with.

zerinus

Please, for the love of St Peter, for once Zerinus, practice what you preach!

I would rather hear from other Mormons and exMormons who have the decency to answer questions and not give boilerplate, stock-in-trade, eyes-glazed-over answers like you and your minions do. (we know Zerinus, your name is legion!)

Go pray for guidance, toss out all Mormon propaganda, read some study Bibles (it will help you focus your mind) and then for icing on the cake, go see that new movie, September Dawn (it should do wonders for recruiting for the LDS sect).

Peace of the Lord be with you, Zerinus

 

[JonathanKinsman]

In the primitive church infants were not baptized. That false sacrament became popular after the apostasy had gotten its hold. In those days baptism was performed exclusively by immersion; and if you immerse an infant most likely you will kill him. An infant doesn’t know how to hold its breath while being immersed in water. He will try to breathe, and fill his lungs with water, and end up being dead!

zerinus

Z: Here you say in the primitive (early) Church infants were not baptized.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Sure I will. These are from the link that Christianly had given:Elsewhere Origen wrote in his Homily on Luke 14: “Infants are to be baptized for the remission of sins. . . .”

Augustine (354 - 430), writing about this time in De Genesi Ad Literam, X: 39, declares, . . .

He further states, “If you wish to be a Christian, do not believe, nor say, nor teach, that infants who die before baptism can obtain the remission of original sin.” And again, “Whoever says that even infants are vivified in Christ when they depart this life without participation in His sacrament (Baptism), both opposes the Apostolic preaching and condemns the whole church which hastens to baptize infants, because it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they cannot possibly be vivified in Christ.”

zerinus

When Nan asks you to back up your goofy assertion: This is what you come back with.

NOTICE that it does NOT support your contention that “*n the primitive church infants were not baptized.”

READ THE QUOTE, Zerinus, READ THE QUOTE.

“Infants are to be baptized.” Origen

And St Augustine is taking it for granted that infants are baptized: his words are discussing ANOTHER issue entirely different: the remission of sins via the Sacrament of Baptism, NOT whether the Church baptized infants or not!

Gee, why don’t you read things before posting them, you would save yourself and us a lot of time pointing out your omissions over and over and over and over.

Ay carumba!*

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Let’s close this thread: Zerinus can not answer anyone’s inquiries.

Keep praying for him and his handlers: these are good people who are truly lost in the literal and spiritual sense of the Word.

Pax Christi everyone

Someone start a thread about a recent Catholic book which he or she has read. (How about Garry Will’s What Paul Really Meant?)

 

[artist3189]

Let’s close this thread: Zerinus can not answer anyone’s inquiries.

Keep praying for him and his handlers: these are good people who are truly lost in the literal and spiritual sense of the Word.

Pax Christi everyone

Someone start a thread about a recent Catholic book which he or she has read. (How about Garry Will’s What Paul Really Meant?)

Close it…

 

[Allweather]

And the winner is…

mwashabaugh

Congratulations!

 

[Catholic_miles]

Even if this debate is over, I want to put in my two cents. I am currently a catholic, but have decided to become LDS. Why? Because I have looked for the fullness of the gospel and I have found it in the LDS church. Why is that? I used to go to the oldest Catholic Church in my city, say the rosary almost daily, go to Mass at least 2x’s a week, praying Marian devotions morning, the Angelus at noon, and I also prayed with traditional images. I was an altar server, because there was hardly anyone who ever went to that beautiful church. I fully believed history was totally on the side of the Catholic Church, the 1 billion+ hammer of the Faith smashing the false religions of the world, and I even believed that Mormons were damnable heretics. But then my eyes were opened. I saw the South Park episode “All About Mormons” (dum dum dum dum dum) (Also, I know it’s a vulgar show but my roommate was watching it & since I am at college it was kind of hard not to, having just a dorm room). I thought, “How could Mormons believe this stuff? Joseph Smith must have been the best con ever!” Well, boy, did God have a surprise in store for me. I was in the library over the weekend looking for writings by the Church fathers in Latin (classics major to read, and as I was walking down the shelves a copy of the Book of Mormon caught my eye. I picked it up, expecting to start howling with laughter. Instead, I was shocked. This wasn’t a silly little frontiersman piece of Injun literature. This was a strange book. Before I looked at my watch again I’d gotten to 2 Nephi. I was shaking. Could this church, the Mormons, those crazy smiling Mormons, actually be right? So I checked out the copy and read, read, and researched. I had no idea that the Trinity was not taught in the Apostolic Age, but only in the mid-Ante-Nicene period. I thought the Bible supported original sin, not that Augustine, who allegorized and de-vitalized the Bible with his Manichaeism, had. I was scared. Was this the true Church? So I went to the Newman center, to ask some theological questions. I did not want the LDS church to be true. I hoped it was the silly false cult I’d thought it was. But when the Catholic brother who I was talking to learned what I had been reading, he really let it all out. He told me that I didn’t need to think whether this was true or not, that this book and that the LDS church was so false, it defied all description. His face was almost contorted when he talked about how twisted, how sick the Mormons and their beliefs were. Well, with that display of pure, holy, apostolic Christianity, I was really impressed. And then as I thought about Church history, I realized how violent Catholic/Orthodox history was. Those great ecumenical councils, filled with riots in the streets incited by Bishops, those revered Saints of “true” trinitarian belief attacking one another, scheming, name calling, using political intrigue. If that was the Church that Jesus ran and had decided was his Church, well then screw Jesus. But maybe not. Maybe there was a peace, a middle church, a church that led its members to plateaus of spirituality with the voice of the Good Shepherd calling His lost sheep unto Him. And so the next week I went to a Mormon ward. I was shaking as I walked in the door, scared to death. And guess what? It was a general meeting. No one was there, but these two nice guys, one a recent convert from the Catholic church and another a guy from Finland, were there to gather some materials to take to the meeting. I talked to them for a couple of minutes, and gave them my phone number to give to the missionaries. Really, the kindness LDS show is so genuine and heartfelt. I remembered once when I went to a summer science program one of the grad students helping us was the nicest guy, and he was LDS. I remember that me and three other guys drove to RI on the last day of the program when all the students went to the beach, and we had a great discussion about religion and science and I didn’t realize he was Mormon until one of the guys asked what LDS meant. He never pushed his beliefs on us, never bashed our beliefs (2 catholics, 1 atheist jew). So, I’ve been meeting with the missionaries for about three months now, but my parents have been really upset about it. The family issue has been tough. Study the Book of Mormon. You’ll be amazed at what it contains.

 

[Catholic_miles]

But what really brought me to realize this is the right church is perhaps the strangest thing in the world: my class comparing the Tanakh with other Ancient Near Eastern texts. I was astounded to learn that there is a large consensus among scholars that the original Hebrew religion was monolatry (worshipping one god but not denying the existence of others, “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Cor. 8:5-6) that God had a wife in their original belief system, that God was most definitely anthropomorphic, that the Greco-“Christian” concept of a God was totally un-imaginable to the anicent Hebrews (just read the Old and New Testament, yeah, that’s a God who has no passion or parts), that creation ex nihilo was never a part of Judaism or Christianity until they were hellenicized, and then also through my own independent study of the Disciplina arcani, I realized that these scholarly arguments, grounded in real history and not neo-platonic theology (or “orthodox” theology, there the same thing) that these facts about the real beliefs of the Israelite nation would KILL the Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Methodists, Orthodox, etc. These are real conclusions formed through real research by real scholars. But do they make a dent on the LDS church? Not a bit. In the 13th article of Faith, Joseph Smith wrote, " If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praisworthy, we seek after these things." I’d say 150 years of solid scholarly research would be “of good report.” And to think an ignorant New York frontiersman, with a 3rd grade education, came forth and brought these truths to light before all these things were known, now, if that doesn’t make him a prophet, I don’t know what does. But then, I did what the missionaries told me to, to go and ask if these things were true, and guess what, I did. And now I bear my solemn testimony that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith brought in the Restoration and is a true prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is a true record of the ancient inhabitants of America, and that Heavenly Father does have a plan for all of us. I do say this, in the name of the one and only, living Son of God, Jesus the Christ. I didn’t have a burning in the bosom. The Holy Ghost told me the truth of all things by opening my mind and making me receptive of the truth. Mormonism makes it all fit. This is my testimony. I’m not a member yet, and I’m not telling you to listen to me. Ask your Father about these things, don’t appeal to anyone else but him. Blessings,
Lawrence ( I go to an unaffiliated college (Boston U.) and the class has as its working assumption that religion is a social construct, not any religion presented there.)

 

[wademann]

Awsome!!! It Only Gets Better!!!

 

[zerinus]

But what really brought me to realize this is the right church is perhaps the strangest thing in the world: my class comparing the Tanakh with other Ancient Near Eastern texts. I was astounded to learn that there is a large consensus among scholars that the original Hebrew religion was monolatry (worshipping one god but not denying the existence of others, “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Cor. 8:5-6) that God had a wife in their original belief system, that God was most definitely anthropomorphic, that the Greco-“Christian” concept of a God was totally un-imaginable to the anicent Hebrews (just read the Old and New Testament, yeah, that’s a God who has no passion or parts), that creation ex nihilo was never a part of Judaism or Christianity until they were hellenicized, and then also through my own independent study of the Disciplina arcani, I realized that these scholarly arguments, grounded in real history and not neo-platonic theology (or “orthodox” theology, there the same thing) that these facts about the real beliefs of the Israelite nation would KILL the Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Methodists, Orthodox, etc. These are real conclusions formed through real research by real scholars. But do they make a dent on the LDS church? Not a bit. In the 13th article of Faith, Joseph Smith wrote, " If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praisworthy, we seek after these things." I’d say 150 years of solid scholarly research would be “of good report.” And to think an ignorant New York frontiersman, with a 3rd grade education, came forth and brought these truths to light before all these things were known, now, if that doesn’t make him a prophet, I don’t know what does. But then, I did what the missionaries told me to, to go and ask if these things were true, and guess what, I did. And now I bear my solemn testimony that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith brought in the Restoration and is a true prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is a true record of the ancient inhabitants of America, and that Heavenly Father does have a plan for all of us. I do say this, in the name of the one and only, living Son of God, Jesus the Christ. I didn’t have a burning in the bosom. The Holy Ghost told me the truth of all things by opening my mind and making me receptive of the truth. Mormonism makes it all fit. This is my testimony. I’m not a member yet, and I’m not telling you to listen to me. Ask your Father about these things, don’t appeal to anyone else but him. Blessings,
Lawrence ( I go to an unaffiliated college (Boston U.) and the class has as its working assumption that religion is a social construct, not any religion presented there.)

A great testimony; and congratulations on finding the truth. As they say, we win some and we lose some—except that we win a lot more than we lose! It just doesn’t look like that from here.

zerinus

 

[christianley]

But what really brought me to realize this is the right church is perhaps the strangest thing in the world: my class comparing the Tanakh with other Ancient Near Eastern texts. I was astounded to learn that there is a large consensus among scholars that the original Hebrew religion was monolatry (worshipping one god but not denying the existence of others, “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Cor. 8:5-6) that God had a wife in their original belief system, that God was most definitely anthropomorphic, that the Greco-“Christian” concept of a God was totally un-imaginable to the anicent Hebrews (just read the Old and New Testament, yeah, that’s a God who has no passion or parts), that creation ex nihilo was never a part of Judaism or Christianity until they were hellenicized, and then also through my own independent study of the Disciplina arcani, I realized that these scholarly arguments, grounded in real history and not neo-platonic theology (or “orthodox” theology, there the same thing) that these facts about the real beliefs of the Israelite nation would KILL the Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Methodists, Orthodox, etc. These are real conclusions formed through real research by real scholars. But do they make a dent on the LDS church? Not a bit. In the 13th article of Faith, Joseph Smith wrote, " If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praisworthy, we seek after these things." I’d say 150 years of solid scholarly research would be “of good report.” And to think an ignorant New York frontiersman, with a 3rd grade education, came forth and brought these truths to light before all these things were known, now, if that doesn’t make him a prophet, I don’t know what does. But then, I did what the missionaries told me to, to go and ask if these things were true, and guess what, I did. And now I bear my solemn testimony that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith brought in the Restoration and is a true prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is a true record of the ancient inhabitants of America, and that Heavenly Father does have a plan for all of us. I do say this, in the name of the one and only, living Son of God, Jesus the Christ. I didn’t have a burning in the bosom. The Holy Ghost told me the truth of all things by opening my mind and making me receptive of the truth. Mormonism makes it all fit. This is my testimony. I’m not a member yet, and I’m not telling you to listen to me. Ask your Father about these things, don’t appeal to anyone else but him. Blessings,
Lawrence ( I go to an unaffiliated college (Boston U.) and the class has as its working assumption that religion is a social construct, not any religion presented there.)

If you want to learn more, I suggest you view the videos at this site:

lhvm.org/index2.htm#

They can be viewed on your computer.

And have you heard about the Book of Abraham yet? That’s another bogus LDS scripture. You can find out about it here:

irr.org/MIT/Books/BHOH/bhoh1.html

You can try to destroy orthodox Christian doctrine all you want, but you won’t find the truth in Mormonism. The Mormon scriptures have been proven false. Look at the materials above and you will see that is so. But then you are 19. That’s how old I was when I was fooled into Mormonism. It took me over 30 years to finally get out of it. Good luck with your research, but be warned that you are tossing away real Christianity for something false. I hope it doesn’t take you 30 years to find that out.

 

[zerinus]

If you want to learn more, I suggest you view the videos at this site:

lhvm.org/index2.htm#

They can be viewed on your computer.

And have you heard about the Book of Abraham yet? That’s another bogus LDS scripture. You can find out about it here:

irr.org/MIT/Books/BHOH/bhoh1.html

You can try to destroy orthodox Christian doctrine all you want, but you won’t find the truth in Mormonism. The Mormon scriptures have been proven false. Look at the materials above and you will see that is so. But then you are 19. That’s how old I was when I was fooled into Mormonism. It took me over 30 years to finally get out of it. Good luck with your research, but be warned that you are tossing away real Christianity for something false. I hope it doesn’t take you 30 years to find that out.

What you are ignoring is that when the Holy Spirit testifies to someone of the truth of something, then he “knows,” and cannot be shaken.

zerinus

 

[christianley]

What you are ignoring is that when the Holy Spirit testifies to someone of the truth of something, then he “knows,” and cannot be shaken.

zerinus

That’s simply bull. Dependence upon our feelings often leads us on the wrong path. Of course I can also offer to you lots of Catholics who have said the same thing about Catholicism. I was listening to “Kresta in the Afternoon” yesterday on EWTN Radio and Catholic by the name of Ralph Martin related his experience of attending a Cursillo weekend at Notre Dame. He had gone in having lost his Catholic faith because of his reading of philosophy, but while attending the weekend had a strong experience which convinced him that Jesus is the Son of God and that the Catholic Church is true. These testimonies are helpful, but in the end the only thing that matters are the facts. The videos I suggested as well as the book I linked to have the facts. The facts show that Mormon scriptures are completely unreliable.

 

[zerinus]

That’s simply bull. Dependence upon our feelings often leads us on the wrong path. . . .

All that that proves is that you do not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost, have never experienced it, do not believe in and have no faith in it, and therefore cannot understand how anybody else can. You call it “feelings” because you have never experienced it, and have no other way to describe it. But those who have experienced it know that it reveals to them the truth, and cannot be shaken.

zeirnus

 

[christianley]

All that that proves is that you do not have the testimony of the Holy Ghost, have never experienced it, do not believe in and have no faith in it, and therefore cannot understand how anybody else can. You call it “feelings” because you have never experienced it, and have no other way to describe it. But those who have experienced it know that it reveals to them the truth, and cannot be shaken.

zeirnus

So you really believe that Native Americans are descendents of Hebrews even though the DNA evidence, the archaeological evidence, and the linguistic evidence all prove they didn’t come from the Middle East just because of your feelings? You really believe the Book of Abraham is an ancient document about Abraham even though the modern translations prove that it is simply an Egyptian funerary text? Have you watched the videos I suggested or read the books? Yes or no on all three questions.

 

[majick275]

so speaks the heretic who blatantly follows the serpent in the garden in his rush to become a God. I don’t know what seminary class you found “catholic_miles” in but the story (like Joseph smiths) falls apart when the facts are examined.

I had no idea that the Trinity was not taught in the Apostolic Age, but only in the mid-Ante-Nicene period. I thought the Bible supported original sin, not that Augustine, who allegorized and de-vitalized the Bible with his Manichaeism, had.

this was “discovered” while reading the BoM? please. this is blatantly false as evidenced by any reading of the ECF’s. note the lack of references here.

Well, with that display of pure, holy, apostolic Christianity, I was really impressed. And then as I thought about Church history, I realized how violent Catholic/Orthodox history was. Those great ecumenical councils, filled with riots in the streets incited by Bishops, those revered Saints of “true” trinitarian belief attacking one another, scheming, name calling, using political intrigue. If that was the Church that Jesus ran and had decided was his Church, well then screw Jesus.

so the actions of one individual with no authority determines that the Catholic faith is false? and specifically because they condemn mormons? what logic is that? aaahhh the “violent history”. SO that means it can’t be Gods church? read the Old testament and see what God commanded and what his people did in his name. I find it telling that you compare this to mormonism with it’s own violent history. The battles with settlers and federal troops while blatantly violating federal law. The bank fraud, the polygamy with it’s adulterous affairs and violent beatings and even castrations. that’s peaceful right?

 

[majick275]

(continued)

I was astounded to learn that there is a large consensus among scholars that the original Hebrew religion was monolatry (worshipping one god but not denying the existence of others, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, and you learned this from mormons? exactly what “scholars” are in consensus on this? That is wrong!!!

my own independent study of the Disciplina arcani, I realized that these scholarly arguments, grounded in real history and not neo-platonic theology (or “orthodox” theology, there the same thing) that these facts about the real beliefs of the Israelite nation would KILL the Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Methodists, Orthodox, etc. These are real conclusions formed through real research by real scholars. now we see the “scholars” it’s one persons independent study of an obviously misunderstood practice of “not casting pearls before swine” in the early church. The ACTUAL events do NOT support gnosticism. (newadvent.org/cathen/05032a.htm)
once again what scholars? what research? please. you looked up a relatively modern term in the encyclopedia and would have us believe that it’s an authoritative book and that because you “studied” this one day “scholars” have “researched” it and are in “consensus” as to your conclusions.

And to think an ignorant New York frontiersman, with a 3rd grade education, came forth and brought these truths to light before all these things were known, now, if that doesn’t make him a prophet, I don’t know what does study the history of the LDS church and you can quickly dispel these myths. Joseph smith was more educated than that, especially when he published the BoM. (which he did with the help of other more educated people)
If I applied your logic here then Mohamed is a true prophet because he had no formal education and was illiterate. yet he gave us the Koran. WoW!!! Joseph Smith was a con man who was in cahoots with a number of crafty folks when he finally published the BoM. Look at Oliver Cowdery (and his part in the bank scandal), Sidney Rigdon, Emma Smith, The Whitmers (and their later cults) Martin Harris (and his following after every “magical” church until he ran out of money and had to go back the LDS for charity). The ojnly truths in the BoM are the ones plagiarized form the Bible.

then we get standard mormon testimony number 4 which should dispel ALL doubt about Catholic miles being anything other than a plant. Go back to your institute class and tell them no one here was fooled.

Let me tell you about the REAL Holy Spirit, you know the ONE God? As Acatholic I do what no Mormon is allowed to, I pray TO The Holy Spirit for guidance, I pray TO Jesus Christ in thanks and WORSHIP!. God has revealed to me through scripture, tradition, common sense AND the revelation of the Holy Spirit that JESUS established the CATHOLIC church. it never left the earth. Jesus NEVER abandoned the world. He has been with us always just like said he would. therefore there never was a “great apostasy”. Joseph smith lived his life in direct violation of the commandments of God. His “prophecies” are false. LDS doctrine is made up and the practices have at times fallen to the level of diabolical. I testify in the name of the ONE God, the Father, The Son AND the Holy Spirit that the Catholic church is the only one on earth with the divine authority to act as Gods church. I testify that Joseph Smith and his followers are wrong and that mormonism leads souls to hell. May almighty God bless you that your eyes may be opened and your sins forgiven. May he take you to his abode in heaven forever.
Now stop with the play acting trolls and let’s get real. repent and be baptized!

 

[christianley]

so speaks the heretic who blatantly follows the serpent in the garden in his rush to become a God. I don’t know what seminary class you found “catholic_miles” in but the story (like Joseph smiths) falls apart when the facts are examined.

I had no idea that the Trinity was not taught in the Apostolic Age, but only in the mid-Ante-Nicene period. I thought the Bible supported original sin, not that Augustine, who allegorized and de-vitalized the Bible with his Manichaeism, had.

this was “discovered” while reading the BoM? please. this is blatantly false as evidenced by any reading of the ECF’s. note the lack of references here.

Well, with that display of pure, holy, apostolic Christianity, I was really impressed. And then as I thought about Church history, I realized how violent Catholic/Orthodox history was. Those great ecumenical councils, filled with riots in the streets incited by Bishops, those revered Saints of “true” trinitarian belief attacking one another, scheming, name calling, using political intrigue. If that was the Church that Jesus ran and had decided was his Church, well then screw Jesus.

so the actions of one individual with no authority determines that the Catholic faith is false? and specifically because they condemn mormons? what logic is that? aaahhh the “violent history”. SO that means it can’t be Gods church? read the Old testament and see what God commanded and what his people did in his name. I find it telling that you compare this to mormonism with it’s own violent history. The battles with settlers and federal troops while blatantly violating federal law. The bank fraud, the polygamy with it’s adulterous affairs and violent beatings and even castrations. that’s peaceful right?

That was my first instinct – Catholic miles really doesn’t exist.
Is there a way to find out if Catholic miles, Wademann and Zerinius are all the same person?

 

[zerinus]

So you really believe that Native Americans are descendents of Hebrews even though the DNA evidence, the archaeological evidence, and the linguistic evidence all prove they didn’t come from the Middle East . . .

Of course I do. Those “evidences” are not conclusive. The enemies of the Church want to portray them as though they are conclusive; but they are not.

. . . just because of your feelings?

You can call it “feelings” all you want; but it won’t destroy the reality of the testimony of the Holy Ghost for me. It only makes me pity your lack of vision. It is like a blind man trying to prove by logical argument to someone who sees that the sun doesn’t shine, when he sees with his eyes that it does. That would only make him pity his blindness. It won’t prove to him anything

You really believe the Book of Abraham is an ancient document about Abraham even though the modern translations prove that it is simply an Egyptian funerary text?

Absolutely. The Spirit of the Lord confirms to me that it is true, therefore what the scholars and say about it to me must have a different explanation which they have not yet discovered or understood. That is my explanation of the thing.

Have you watched the videos I suggested or read the books? Yes or no on all three questions.

I have seen (and read) enough. Anti-Mormon literature and websites etc are legion. It would take a lifetime to study them all. I have seen enough of them to have a pretty good idea of what they are talking about.

zerinus

 

[christianley]

Of course I do. Those “evidences” are not conclusive. The enemies of the Church want to portray them as though they are conclusive; but they are not.

You can call it “feelings” all you want; but it won’t destroy the reality of the testimony of the Holy Ghost for me. It only makes me pity your lack of vision. It is like a blind man trying to prove by logical argument to someone who sees that the sun doesn’t shine, when he sees with his eyes that it does. That would only make him pity his blindness. It won’t prove to him anything

Absolutely. The Spirit of the Lord confirms to me that it is true, therefore what the scholars and say about it to me must have a different explanation which they have not yet discovered or understood. That is my explanation of the thing.

I have seen (and read) enough. Anti-Mormon literature and websites etc are legion. It would take a lifetime to study them all. I have seen enough of them to have a pretty good idea of what they are talking about.

zerinus

Then Zerinius, Wademann, Catholic-miles or whoever you are (was it Amgid?), I suggest you look at the videos about the DNA and the Book of Mormon vs. the Bible one last time. The facts are there. If you are willing to deny the facts I don’t know that you will have much defense in front of God in the last day.