any former mormons out there?

[artist3189]

I had gained a lot of respect and understanding for the catholic church, by reading this forum. This thread is sad and reflects poorly on all catholics. If this is a reflection of most catholics, I would think that we will continue to have an easy time of converting more of them. The ex mormons seem to be the most venomous, which is sad. I’m glad, that in their current state of mind, they are not in my church anymore. With that kind of attitude I can see why they might not have fit in.

What a bunch of double-edged bunk…you can’t beat the former LDS members at ‘your game’ and it ‘GALLS’ you, that’s what this is really all about, they have your number. Don’t try to make like your hurt and disappointed, like you came for honest discussion. You guys never really answer any of the ex’s questions or criticisms, because you can’t, so now, since they think for themselves, have opened their hearts, are willing to investigate and be open to truth, now, “you can see why they might not have fit in”? Sure, so can I… they aren’t weak in faith anymore…Some of best Catholics seem to be the ones that came looking, and found the truth, and you ran into a whole bunch of them here.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Well, everybody, I waited for Catholic_miles to be on the Forum and I sent him a PM asking if I could converse with him via PM of course in Latin.

I miss teaching it (high school level) and since he mentioned that he reads Church documents in Latin, I thought, oh boy!

Well, he hasn’t responded. In fact, he got off line about 12 minutes after I sent him the note.

Maybe Zerinus will talk to me in that ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic script?? I got my seer stone ready, Z. How about it?

Did anyone else notice the contradictions in Catholic_miles’ initial postings?? Praying the Angelus?? Hhmm, I thought the Divine Office was for monks and sisters? “Praying Marian devotions?” What is up with that!

And that reference to the Tanakh like it was in existence prior to 90 AD! Ancient Near Eastern texts!

His “university” must be BYU.

 

[Ceil-1]

To the Catholic guy converting to Mormon:

Regarding that “feeling” that came over you reading the BOM.
Have you ruled out the possibility of supernatural influence?
This religion started in Palmyra, NY, my home region. This area of NY is known as the “psychic corridor”, and many of these late religious cults were born there. JW’s, spiritism, the shakers, the Seventh Day Adventits, even Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood was born there. Even the Indians cursed the area as they were being driven out of the Niagara Falls area. Is this a coincidence? I don’t beleive so. I, myself have fallen prey to some occult ideas. College kids your age are prime targets for these types of things. Try not to be so easy to sway.

Most Catholic converts I know have done so after years, even dedcades of careful thought, study, and prayer. Perhaps you should think twice about being so hasty with what these people are selling. You will be mentioned in my prayers before the Blessed Sacrament tonight. .

 

[Catholic_miles]

Well, to all those out there, that is why I feel like leaving the Catholic Church. By their fruits ye shall know them- and most of you have been pretty disparaging of me. I just mostly came to this forum by accident, I had a question to ask the apologists but they didn’t answer it so before I left I came to this forum just because it caught my eye. You all have cast dispersions on my identity, you have implied I’m a liar, and this is why I don’t like the Catholic Church anymore. Mormons wouldn’t do that. The Catholic Church is such a cold place. Everytime I’d go to confession to try to be a better person, the priest would say, you need to pray the rosary more, you need to constantly pray to the Blessed Virgin for your soul, you’re going to go to hell. I tried, but I felt so emotionally drained. No, I’m not going to answer everyone’s charges. My school is non-affiliated. If you want to know more about ANE parallels, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible has good citations of resources to other articles. by John J. Collins. I’ve gone through enough this first semester in college, the people at the Newman center were one big clique, I’ve had hardly anyone be nice to me, I’m in a new part of the country, I’ve been on medication for months, and of all people to be nice to me, to treat me fairly, to throw me a birthday party, it was the mormons. I tried volunteering at the newman center but everyone was rude to me. I just can’t take being in a church that doesn’t value me as an individual, that just says I need to pray and do better and not be the way I am in order to stay out of hell. Also, if JPII can kiss the Quran, a book that doesn’t testify that Jesus is the Savior, then what’s wrong with me believing in the BoM, one that most definitely does say Jesus is God?

 

[Brad_Haas]

 

[Nan_S]

Well, to all those out there, that is why I feel like leaving the Catholic Church. By their fruits ye shall know them- and most of you have been pretty disparaging of me. I just mostly came to this forum by accident, I had a question to ask the apologists but they didn’t answer it so before I left I came to this forum just because it caught my eye. You all have cast dispersions on my identity, you have implied I’m a liar, and this is why I don’t like the Catholic Church anymore. Mormons wouldn’t do that. The Catholic Church is such a cold place. Everytime I’d go to confession to try to be a better person, the priest would say, you need to pray the rosary more, you need to constantly pray to the Blessed Virgin for your soul, you’re going to go to hell. I tried, but I felt so emotionally drained. No, I’m not going to answer everyone’s charges. My school is non-affiliated. If you want to know more about ANE parallels, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible has good citations of resources to other articles. by John J. Collins. I’ve gone through enough this first semester in college, the people at the Newman center were one big clique, I’ve had hardly anyone be nice to me, I’m in a new part of the country, I’ve been on medication for months, and of all people to be nice to me, to treat me fairly, to throw me a birthday party, it was the mormons. I tried volunteering at the newman center but everyone was rude to me. I just can’t take being in a church that doesn’t value me as an individual, that just says I need to pray and do better and not be the way I am in order to stay out of hell. Also, if JPII can kiss the Quran, a book that doesn’t testify that Jesus is the Savior, then what’s wrong with me believing in the BoM, one that most definitely does say Jesus is God?

Well, I for one would like to sincerely wish you well. I hope you find the peace of Christ.

You had the misfortune to come across a thread where we’d already had our fill (and more) of someone who has done a poor job of explaining Mormonism by dodging questions. Several of the ex-Mormon participants had their hackles up, and I’m afraid you wound up catching the brunt of it.

Honestly, I read your post when you first put it up, thought about it today, and logged on to ask you what sources your instructors used. I’m somewhat skeptical because at my age (pushing 50) I have discovered that much in philosophical and theological teachings at secular universities is, putting it nicely, questionable. The Jesus Seminar is a prime example of this. But that’s when I discovered you’d been figured for a troll.

You have made some interesting statements: that the Jews believed in monolatry, that they originally believed God had a wife and was anthropomorphic, and that creation ex nihilo was never a part of Judaism or Christianity until they were hellenicized. However, without knowing your sources I can not examine their validity for myself. Certainly, nothing I have ever studied or examined over several decades has alluded to any of it.

That last one about creation struck an off-key note with me, because I knew that the Genesis creation accounts significantly pre-dated the Greek incursion into Israel, that the post-Babylonian-captivity Jews strenuously resisted the Greek culture during the Greek occupation, and that Christianity wasn’t hellenicized because it didn’t even emerge until after the Greeks were overcome by the Romans.

Keep praying and searching, my friend. The Mormons really are nice people. Some of it, however, is because they’re trying to sell you something (Mormonism), and no salesman ever completed a sale by ticking off the customer.

I’d just like to leave you with four thoughts:

• There were no horses in the Americas until the 16th century.
• No one has yet found the archaeological evidence that proves the Nephites and Lamanites existed, nor any other ancient culture resembling them.
• The Mormons have their own bloody history, particularly at Nauvoo and in the Mountain Meadows massacre affair.
• The Three Witnesses all left Mormonism. Martin Harris went on to testify to the “truth” of another religious sect; if I remember right, it was the Shakers.

That being said, I again wish you well and hope that you find the peace you are seeking.

Nan

 

[Catholic_Guy]

Well, to all those out there, that is why I feel like leaving the Catholic Church. By their fruits ye shall know them- and most of you have been pretty disparaging of me. I just mostly came to this forum by accident, I had a question to ask the apologists but they didn’t answer it so before I left I came to this forum just because it caught my eye. The Catholic Church is such a cold place. Everytime I’d go to confession to try to be a better person, the priest would say, you need to pray the rosary more, you need to constantly pray to the Blessed Virgin for your soul, you’re going to go to hell. I tried, but I felt so emotionally drained. No, I’m not going to answer everyone’s charges. My school is non-affiliated. If you want to know more about ANE parallels, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible has good citations of resources to other articles. by John J. Collins. I’ve gone through enough this first semester in college, the people at the Newman center were one big clique, I’ve had hardly anyone be nice to me, I’m in a new part of the country, I’ve been on medication for months, and of all people to be nice to me, to treat me fairly, to throw me a birthday party, it was the mormons. I tried volunteering at the newman center but everyone was rude to me. I just can’t take being in a church that doesn’t value me as an individual, that just says I need to pray and do better and not be the way I am in order to stay out of hell. Also, if JPII can kiss the Quran, a book that doesn’t testify that Jesus is the Savior, then what’s wrong with me believing in the BoM, one that most definitely does say Jesus is God?

You said “You all have cast dispersions on my identity, you have implied I’m a liar, and this is why I don’t like the Catholic Church anymore. Mormons wouldn’t do that.”

If you think that Mormons wouldn’t do that, I suggest you visit their largest Apologetics board “Mormon Apologetics & Discussion” and see for yourself that your statement is 180 degrees out of phase. The LDS are good family oriented people, so I would expect them to be nice to you, however this does not change the fact that they’re theology would be classified as a “Heretical Christian Sect”. Multiple Gods, exaltation, baptisms for the Dead, etc., the list goes on. Kindness does not equal salvation. I know these truths because I was born and raised Mormon with a father who is a Bishop. This board in no way represents the Church so to say that because people here implied that you are a liar doesn’t mean that the Church called you one. Don’t throw out Christ’s Church and the real presence in the Eucharist for wonder bread and water that only symbolizes Gods covenant.

Pax Christi,

Catholic Guy

 

[zerinus]

I’d just like to leave you with four thoughts:

• There were no horses in the Americas until the 16th century.

There were horses in ancient America before the 16th century:

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0511_ancienthorses.html

• No one has yet found the archaeological evidence that proves the Nephites and Lamanites existed, nor any other ancient culture resembling them.

Plenty of archaeological evidence. The great ancient monuments of South and Central America belongs to the Book of Mormon people. Only a clear link between them and the Book of Mormon has not been established—which is not surprising, given that after the destruction of the Nephites, the Lamanites that remained were totally against the Christian culture of the Nephites, and did all they could to obliterate them. By the same token, there is also no archaeological evidence that the Israelites ever lived in Egypt, or that the plagues of Moses ever took place, or that the Israelites ever wondered in the Sinai desert for 40 years.

• The Mormons have their own bloody history, particularly at Nauvoo and in the Mountain Meadows massacre affair.

And you reckon that compares with the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the pogroms and persecution of the Jews during the Middle Ages?

• The Three Witnesses all left Mormonism. Martin Harris went on to testify to the “truth” of another religious sect; if I remember right, it was the Shakers.

Not true. None of the three witnesses ever denied their testimony; and two of them, Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery, later repented and returned to the Church.

zerinus

 

[curious35]

Well, you found some former Mormons!

I couild see the spire of a Mormon stake bldg from my former house. They had a very expensive-looking roof put on it a few years back. We all joked that it was lightning-proof!

We get recruited by the LDS and their New York cousins, the Jehovah’s Witnesses every year or so, Both groups change Jesus Christ too much for a practicing Christian to accept, but they do talk about lots of pretty programs. Strange, though, when the Baptists went to Salt Lake City a few years bback they found an ocean of non-religious people.

I love how both groups change their tune evey few years to adapt to societal changes (bigamy, race, the world forgot to end.) I’m sure they’d love the RCC to learn to adapt.

Me. I like coffee too much anyway.

 

[christianley]

Well, to all those out there, that is why I feel like leaving the Catholic Church. By their fruits ye shall know them- and most of you have been pretty disparaging of me. I just mostly came to this forum by accident, I had a question to ask the apologists but they didn’t answer it so before I left I came to this forum just because it caught my eye. You all have cast dispersions on my identity, you have implied I’m a liar, and this is why I don’t like the Catholic Church anymore. Mormons wouldn’t do that. The Catholic Church is such a cold place. Everytime I’d go to confession to try to be a better person, the priest would say, you need to pray the rosary more, you need to constantly pray to the Blessed Virgin for your soul, you’re going to go to hell. I tried, but I felt so emotionally drained. No, I’m not going to answer everyone’s charges. My school is non-affiliated. If you want to know more about ANE parallels, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible has good citations of resources to other articles. by John J. Collins. I’ve gone through enough this first semester in college, the people at the Newman center were one big clique, I’ve had hardly anyone be nice to me, I’m in a new part of the country, I’ve been on medication for months, and of all people to be nice to me, to treat me fairly, to throw me a birthday party, it was the mormons. I tried volunteering at the newman center but everyone was rude to me. I just can’t take being in a church that doesn’t value me as an individual, that just says I need to pray and do better and not be the way I am in order to stay out of hell. Also, if JPII can kiss the Quran, a book that doesn’t testify that Jesus is the Savior, then what’s wrong with me believing in the BoM, one that most definitely does say Jesus is God?

I have provided you with access to links which really would provide you with all of the information you need to know that Mormonism is false. It’s not about who’s friendly to you – love bombing is a typical cult technique. You actually sound like a typical Mormon convert – someone just looking for a friend. The Mormons will provide you with that, but they won’t provide you with the truth about Jesus Christ. If you’re so hot to leave Catholicism and need friendship, maybe you should look around at some Evangelical churches as an alternative. At least they still believe that Jesus is God from all eternity unlike the LDS. I’d suggest giving the Catholic Church another try before bailing to the LDS.

 

[christianley]

Well, to all those out there, that is why I feel like leaving the Catholic Church. By their fruits ye shall know them- and most of you have been pretty disparaging of me. I just mostly came to this forum by accident, I had a question to ask the apologists but they didn’t answer it so before I left I came to this forum just because it caught my eye. You all have cast dispersions on my identity, you have implied I’m a liar, and this is why I don’t like the Catholic Church anymore. Mormons wouldn’t do that. The Catholic Church is such a cold place. Everytime I’d go to confession to try to be a better person, the priest would say, you need to pray the rosary more, you need to constantly pray to the Blessed Virgin for your soul, you’re going to go to hell. I tried, but I felt so emotionally drained. No, I’m not going to answer everyone’s charges. My school is non-affiliated. If you want to know more about ANE parallels, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible has good citations of resources to other articles. by John J. Collins. I’ve gone through enough this first semester in college, the people at the Newman center were one big clique, I’ve had hardly anyone be nice to me, I’m in a new part of the country, I’ve been on medication for months, and of all people to be nice to me, to treat me fairly, to throw me a birthday party, it was the mormons. I tried volunteering at the newman center but everyone was rude to me. I just can’t take being in a church that doesn’t value me as an individual, that just says I need to pray and do better and not be the way I am in order to stay out of hell. Also, if JPII can kiss the Quran, a book that doesn’t testify that Jesus is the Savior, then what’s wrong with me believing in the BoM, one that most definitely does say Jesus is God?

As for implying that you were a liar, it should give you some idea as to how much we trust Mormons to tell the truth. We were just speculating on your identity of course, but the sad fact is that Mormons are basically dishonest in the way they present their religion. They have a principle called, “Lying for the Lord” which allows them to use dishonest techniques to cover up for the Church and try to advance its agenda. Zerinius is among its best practitioners – he is always denying doctrine the Mormons have taught for decades. Do a Google search on “Lying for the Lord” to learn more about this practice. That Mormons might plant a fake “potential convert” here at this board to espouse the virtues of Mormonism while slamming Catholicism does not seem to be far-fetched to some of us here. You really need to take some time to really learn about Mormonism before you jump into that cult.

 

[Nan_S]

There were horses in ancient America before the 16th century:

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0511_ancienthorses.html

Your link discusses proto-horses which became extinct 10,000 years ago, about 8,000 years before the BoM people. Very funny. No help for you.

Plenty of archaeological evidence. The great ancient monuments of South and Central America belongs to the Book of Mormon people. Only a clear link between them and the Book of Mormon has not been established—which is not surprising, given that after the destruction of the Nephites, the Lamanites that remained were totally against the Christian culture of the Nephites, and did all they could to obliterate them.

No middle-eastern DNA, Z. Sorry.

And you reckon that compares with the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the pogroms and persecution of the Jews during the Middle Ages?

Not true. None of the three witnesses ever denied their testimony; and two of them, Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery, later repented and returned to the Church.

zerinus

Martin Harris testifying to the “truth” of some other religion is a pretty big retraction. And Crowdery did not return, AFAIK, he just decided to ignore all sides.

 

[Allweather]

Martin Harris testifying to the “truth” of some other religion is a pretty big retraction. And Crowdery did not return, AFAIK, he just decided to ignore all sides.

Martin Harris didn’t return until he was practically on his deathbed, broke, dire straits.

Cowdery became a successful attorney and ran for public office several times. Each time, according to what I’ve read, his efforts at public office ended in failure once his former connections to the Mormons was revealed publically.

In those days, before the Mormons “morphed” themselves into a kinder, gentler type of cult by de-emphasizing their polygamy and other bizarre teachings, they were a scandal whereever they went. They weren’t “persecuted” by the gentiles because they were People of God. They were “persecuted” because they were polygamous, arrogant, inbred, and often violent.

 

[zerinus]

As for implying that you were a liar, it should give you some idea as to how much we trust Mormons to tell the truth. We were just speculating on your identity of course, but the sad fact is that Mormons are basically dishonest in the way they present their religion. They have a principle called, “Lying for the Lord” which allows them to use dishonest techniques to cover up for the Church and try to advance its agenda. Zerinius is among its best practitioners – he is always denying doctrine the Mormons have taught for decades. Do a Google search on “Lying for the Lord” to learn more about this practice. That Mormons might plant a fake “potential convert” here at this board to espouse the virtues of Mormonism while slamming Catholicism does not seem to be far-fetched to some of us here. You really need to take some time to really learn about Mormonism before you jump into that cult.

Not true; believe it not! Mormonism is true. The Book of Mormon is scripture; a revelation from the Lord. Early Christianity apostatized, and modern Christendom is nothing more than a remnant of an apostate institution.

These folks are the enemies of God and the enemies of the His Church; and they will tell you any lies about Mormonism to turn you away from the truth. Put your trust in the Lord, and He will guide you by His Spirit into all truth, as He has said: “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth . . .” (John 16:13).

Don’t be dissuaded by a bunch of corrupt apostates who have damned themselves by apostatizing from God’s only true Church, and become miserable forever, and now want everybody else to become miserable like unto themselves.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Your link discusses proto-horses which became extinct 10,000 years ago, about 8,000 years before the BoM people. Very funny. No help for you.

Yes, funny indeed. At first they said that there were no horses in ancient America. Now that evidence of horses has been found, they say that they became extinct 10000 years ago! Sorry, that won’t wash. Two issues with that: firstly, carbon dating isn’t that accurate; secondly, according to the Bible, life on earth began only 6000 years ago!

No middle-eastern DNA, Z. Sorry.

Yea, even funnier still. When you run out of answers, change the subject!

Martin Harris testifying to the “truth” of some other religion is a pretty big retraction. And Crowdery did not return, AFAIK, he just decided to ignore all sides.

Not true. None of the three witnesses ever denied their testimony, even when questioned during their estrangement from the Church; and both Cowdery and Harris returned to the Church later in life.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

Your link discusses proto-horses which became extinct 10,000 years ago, about 8,000 years before the BoM people. Very funny. No help for you.

No middle-eastern DNA, Z. Sorry.

I honestly don’t think Zerinus actually reads any of the links he provides. A couple weeks ago when he was producing links that he claimed supported his insane belief that polygamy was practiced widely among the Jews of the 1st century AD, and also among the Apostles and other Christians of the same era, he gave links that, once you read through them, offered no support whatever for his claims. When I questioned him about his, his reply was that he wasn’t supporting what these other groups were teaching (one was about free love) but since they’d provided a short “quote” from Josephus, then that made his point. I’m tellin’ ya, if this person Zerinus has a college education, he needs to get a lawyer and sue that college for failure to educate!

 

[christianley]

Not true; believe it not! Mormonism is true. The Book of Mormon is scripture; a revelation from the Lord. Early Christianity apostatized, and modern Christendom is nothing more than a remnant of an apostate institution.

These folks are the enemies of God and the enemies of the His Church; and they will tell you any lies about Mormonism to turn you away from the truth. Put your trust in the Lord, and He will guide you by His Spirit into all truth, as He has said: “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth . . .” (John 16:13).

Don’t be dissuaded by a bunch of corrupt apostates who have damned themselves by apostatizing from God’s only true Church, and become miserable forever, and now want everybody else to become miserable like unto themselves.

zerinus

Still “Lying for the Lord” Zerinius? Nothing has made me happier than my conversion to the Catholic Church. I hate to see a young person trade the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ for bread and water.

 

[zerinus]

I honestly don’t think Zerinus actually reads any of the links he provides. A couple weeks ago when he was producing links that he claimed supported his insane belief that polygamy was practiced widely among the Jews of the 1st century AD, and also among the Apostles and other Christians of the same era, he gave links that, once you read through them, offered no support whatever for his claims. When I questioned him about his, his reply was that he wasn’t supporting what these other groups were teaching (one was about free love) but since they’d provided a short “quote” from Josephus, then that made his point. I’m tellin’ ya, if this person Zerinus has a college education, he needs to get a lawyer and sue that college for failure to educate!

Yea, keep doing your nuts over Z until your brains fall out (assuming you had any, which I doubt).

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Still “Lying for the Lord” Zerinius?

No sir, I am not lying for anybody, you are.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

Yes, funny indeed. At first they said that there were no horses in ancient America. Now that evidence of horses has been found, they say that they became extinct 10000 years ago! Sorry, that won’t wash. Two issues with that: firstly, carbon dating isn’t that accurate; secondly, according to the Bible, life on earth began only 6000 years ago!

One wonders what, if anything, Zerinus knows about the accuracy of carbon dating. I mean, he is able to make such a statement, he must have taken some courses in “college” that give him the technical knowhow to be able to assert such a thing.

Yea, even funnier still. When you run out of answers, change the subject!

I don’t see any change of subject. You made the odd claim that the pre-columbian peoples of America (I assume you’re talking about Mayans, Aztecs, etc?) are the BoM people. Yet, they apparently don’t have any DNA to support such a claim. I suppose this is due to the inaccuracy of DNA studies. Yet, if the DNA offered support for the Mormon position, dontcha know that the Mormons would be in total support of it?