Any genetic evidence for Mormonism?

[ApostateRLDS]

yes, wishful thinking at best. Have you ever read the book of mormon? It is like a 7th grader read the Bible and then made up their own new strories. Read the book of Moroni, it is hilarious. Especially the parts about infant baptism. I got a huge laugh in my bosom over that, and then my face was burning from the laughter. and they told me I would get a burning in my bosom. sounds like heartburn. how would you know the difference? I wonder if they give away a roll of rolaids with the book just in case?

reminds me of what Mark Twain wrote concerning the BoM:

All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the “elect” have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so “slow,” so sleepy, such an insipid ;mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle-keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate. If he, according to tradition, merely translated it from certain ancient and mysteriously engraved plates of copper, which he declares he found under a stone in an out-of-the-way locality, the work of translating was equally a miracle, for the same reason.

"The book seems to be merely a prosy detail of imaginary history, with the Old Testament for a model; followed by a tedious plagiarism of the New Testament. The author labored to give his words and phrases the quaint, old-fashioned sound and structure of our King James’ translation of the Scriptures; and the result is a mongrel-half modern glibness, and half ancient simplicity and gravity. The latter is awkward and constrained; the former natural, but grotesque by the contrast. Whenever he found his speech growing too modern-which was about every sentence or two-he ladled in a few such scriptural phrases as “exceeding sore,” “and it came to pass,” etc., and made things satisfactory again. “And it came to pass” was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet

 

[justinthemartyr]

LOL-it is a pamphlet

I love twain

 

[Chris-WA]

It will be interesting to see in the coming decades, as science continues to advance in the field of genetics and is better able to trace the orgins of the different races, and as archeologists comb over more of Mesoamerican antiquity, how the LDS church responds to the utter lack of evidence of the existance of the Jaredites, Nephites, and Lamanites. Obviously, the Mormon church can never admit that the BoM is fiction, for to do so would mean the end of the church. But neither can they ignore the science either, especially as more and more is explored and learned. I suppose the final solution might be that they will tell their people to ignore the science altogether and and accept the BoM totally on faith.

 

[Brian_C]

The sources used for this article are a tad dated but the substance and main thrust is sound. It is a very concise discussion of the supporting evidence (or utter lack of) for the civilizations discussed in the BoM.

irr.org/mit/bomarch2.html

 

[Jerusha]

Dale Broadhurst, my mentor, has posted that Oliver Cowdry, one of the principals in the conspiracy, spent his last days writing pseudo-scripture. He had had a head injury, and was regarded as being mentally ill. He was known as ‘old “and it came to pass”’.

Excellent article, Brian.

 

[Brian_C]

Lol, Book of Mormon is a nice change of pace. I usually have to field questions about gold bars, Atlantis, and Sasquatch.

 

[PaulDupre]

Dale Broadhurst, my mentor, has posted that Oliver Cowdry, one of the principals in the conspiracy, spent his last days writing pseudo-scripture. He had had a head injury, and was regarded as being mentally ill. He was known as ‘old “and it came to pass”’.

I think you may be refering to Sidney Rigdon rather than Oliver Cowdery. Sidney fell off - and was dragged by - a horse when he was a young man, sustaining a near-fatal head injury. According to his brother and other relatives, Sidney was never “right in the head” after that.

I believe that Rigdon was the real author of the BoM. He apparently stole the Spaulding manuscript from the printing office where he frequently hung out, and integrated the religious elements into the story. For many months prior to the appearance of the BoM, Sidney was often seen laboring over a manuscript with a bible.

Paul

 

[Jerusha]

Yes, Paul, thank you for the correction. I used the name of the first conspirator that popped into my head. I am sure that Joseph also made some contributions, at least in I Nephi. That brotherly rivalry seems autobiographical.

Brian, how much have they looked for evidence of Viking settlements, other than L’anse aux Meadows and Greenland?

 

[Brian_C]

Hi,
I must admit that I’m not up on that field. I don’t believe there’s been anything on the scale of L’anse Aux Meadows found. As you may know, there HAS been a lot of discussion of the Greenland settlements and what actually led to their downfall i.e. was it another climate shift or something else.

I’ve occasionally heard debate about other potential Norse settlements further in, but I don’t believe there’s anything too important in that regard.

One interesting turn in the prehistory of North America has been a speculative hypothesis that some of our first NA ancestors might have actually come over from stone age Europe in some fashion, skirting the ice of the North Atlantic. Known as the Solutrean hypothesis, it notes interesting similarities between the tools used by the earliest NA populations and those of Western Europe. It also would help explain why we don’t see these early tools in Alaska and NW Canada the way we should. But it’s miles from ever being considered mainstream. Still, these populations would have been a drop in the bucket compared to the migration from NE Asia.

 

[Jerusha]

Yes, if my theory is right, any other settlements may have not lasted long given Native opposition. Given the Viking habit of leaving women and children in safe areas whle the men went raiding and trading and pillaging and raping, I wouldn’t expect to find much.

One stolen manuscript opens the possibility of another stolen manuscript.

I am glad to see that the X lineage coming from the East is still a viable possibility. I have seen other views that it came through the trans-Siberian route like the rest.

 

[zagjames]

I have heard that some stones with norse runes have been discovered in some parts of the interior of N. America, has any heard much of this?

edit:
So I answered my own question. I do not know the validity of this info but here ya go:

sunnyway.com/runes/americanstones.html

They believe it was the Catholic Bishop of Greenland who may have left many of the runestones as he traveled with a group of his fellow norsemen through vinnland or north america

 

[Brian_C]

AFAIK, they aren’t given a WHOLE lot of credence by professional archs. However, there is always the possibility of an isolated incursion by a seafaring population to our coasts. We simply can’t excavate every square inch of North America (although it’d be fun!) It’s the idea of a widespread advanced civilization that really stretches credibility.

Federal compliance-based cultural resource management archaeology has, since the 1960’s and especially since the late70’s, very systematically inventoried millions of acres of public and private land in the US. We’re looking in places we’d have never thought due to federal laws which mandate any time: a;- a ground disturbing activity takes place on federal land or b:-a ground disturbing activity must receives a federal outlay, contract, permit, or license, the property in question must be inspected for significant archaeological and historical resources.

While this has revised and changed many of the finer points that archaeologists argue over, there have been few in the way of earth shattering revisions to North American prehistory.

 

[peary]

I came across an article today that supports the idea that native Americans came from Siberia.

What I found particularly interesting was that the study covered peoples from all the Americas. So if genetics can tie native Americans to Siberia, then is there any similar proof that they are really Egyptian Jews?

In a nutshell, NO.

 

[Jerusha]

I have thought that the Kensington Runestone’s reference to “red with blood” could be a reference to Bubonic Plague, given the other plague-related evidence. The Maine runestone probably is genuine, Kensington could be legitimate. The Oklahoma one I suspect. I think that forgeries could be common. The way I am now looking at the BOM, is that some tribes made an alliance with the Vikings and did their dirty work for them (it is in there). This can explain the minimal evidence outside of those immediate areas (Newfoundland, Maine, Labrador, St. Lawrence River, and Greenland). I really doubt any significant Hudson Bay exploration.

It is a mystical kind of irony that a text as corrupted as the BOM might provide us with a solution to the mystery of what happened.

Yeah, I am not looking for earth-shattering revisions to post-980 American history, just for the paradox that, although a fraud, the BOM does contain some history, but not that of a Hebrew people who came here 600AD. Rather, it contains a corrupted story of the Native reaction to the Viking invasion.

If I were to take at face value the numbers reported in the BOM, one would have to conclude that people of many tribes have mixed Viking ancestry. It just ain’t so.

As for archaeological exploration, I have extreme reservations about digging up dead people. Probably rooted to my emotional reaction to a visit to Cahokia when I was a small child. Why disturb the dead? Why chance the release of germs and viruses long dormant? Where is there respect for those people? I agree with your conservative views in that respect, unusual for your profession.