Any inner mindset necessary for believe?

[carn]

Since some time ago i realized that believing in God is the right choice i am trying to understand what that actually means.(e.g. see this thread where i try to understand the intelectual side forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=601021).

The question i am pondering here, is if a certain “mindset” or mental setup should come with believe or if some sort of thesse are incompatible with believe.

The point is, i cannot say that my heart is behind my believe. Furthermore i do not understand, why that should matter.God is good, im a sinner, i must ask for forgiveness and try to follow his commands and if i fail to far, he cannot acceptme near Him and i end up in hell. It seems that sums it up and there is no reason to attach much to that,except to accept that it is that way. I do not know, what my heart can add to that.

I mean, im pretty certain, that the sun will rise tomorrow and ill have to accept that and behave and act accordingly. It just is, so no need to develop any emotion about it and no idea what that emotion should be. Same with God, He is and i must try to behave and act accordingly.Why should i feel anything about it?

And yetfrom what i read, that not feeling anything about it might be wrong.

Furthermore i miss totally any fear about God. He is perfectly just. Its stupid to fear perfect justness as it would mean fearing just punishment and fearing just punishment means i want to cheat out of what i am responsible for.

And a part of me has a good laugh about the idea of the flying spagetti monster and even on my deathbed it would be possible, that i would enjoy watching “life of brian”, cause i cannot see much blasphemous about it (except maybe the opening scene), it just wonderfully depicts bottomless human stupidity. And i cannot help laughing about on memorable southpark scene (though that series has some distasteful parts),where some people die and end up in hell complaining that they were very religious and do not belong there, upon which they are ask what religion they adhered to. After several answers catholic, jehovas witness, muslim and so on a devil-like creature says in quizmaster style “Sorry, the correct answer would have been … mormonism Ok, the correct answer was mormonism. Sorry, now can we continue …” - absolutely hilarious, typing this i cannot help laughing.

Somehow my mindset might be wrong, but i cannot say how or why or what to do about it or if it is a problem.

Any thoughts?

 

[OneSheep]

When it comes to “salvation” coming from what particular creed we adhere to, I laugh with you. Lots of pointing at each other’s religion and saying mine is right. Let’s wake up, there isn’t a perfect one out there. I grew up on “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.” I try to be part of the Catholic solution.

To me, faith is much more than belief, or some emotion we feel as a result of believing. It has to do with what we do. It has to do with “what am I doing with the little time I have as a living person?”. It has to do with creating a kingdom of God on Earth, whether that is a matter of helping the poor, the sick, the lonely, or the person on the street. It has to do with making political choices that seek a better future. It has to do with forgiving everyone and everything we resent. It has to do with appreciating God’s creation and doing all I can to preserve it. It has to do with love. Otherwise, it can all seem rather trivial.

 

[ivory]

I don’t think there is a “mindset” necessary to believe in God. All you need to do is open up your mind and allow Him to guide you. During my recent crisis of faith, that’s exactly what I did. I prayed, I educated myself about the Church, and I went to Mass as often as I could. If you truly seek God, He will help you. I know this now from personal experience.

 

[Waiting]

You already have the mindset to believe, or you wouldn’t be questioning it. Onesheep states that there is no perfect religion, as though it doesn’t matter which faith you adhere to. He’s wrong in that respect. Jesus, in other words - God, instituted a Church on earth. We know that Church is the Catholic Church. God is perfect, therefore what He does is perfect. True, His Church is in imperfect human hands, and we are all capable of mistakes, but Jesus assured us that the powers of hell will not prevail against His Church. Therefore, the dogmas of the Church are in divine hands. The Holy Spirit guards the Church and keeps it from error.

Why don’t you spend some time reading Catholic literature? The Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, any books by Scott Hahn, Patrick Madrid, and a host of other authors will give you the basics and more to build your faith upon. Don’t worry about emotions. They will follow as a natural consequence of your knowledge.

 

[carn]

Onesheep states that there is no perfect religion, as though it doesn’t matter which faith you adhere to. He’s wrong in that respect.

I do not know whether onesheep actually means that. But i am always amused about the notion, that the religion is not relevant. Even a casual comparison between Tlaloc and Jesus indicates at least slight differences - at least who is sacrificed for whom.

God is perfect, therefore what He does is perfect.

It can get messy if free will is added.

True, His Church is in imperfect human hands, and we are all capable of mistakes, but Jesus assured us that the powers of hell will not prevail against His Church. Therefore, the dogmas of the Church are in divine hands. The Holy Spirit guards the Church and keeps it from error.

I do not understand why from “hell will not prevail against His church” it follows that the church will avoid all error. It could be that avoiding many and/or big errors could be enough, as Satan is not a perfect a less than perfect protection might be enough.

Why don’t you spend some time reading Catholic literature? The Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church,

I do that.

Don’t worry about emotions. They will follow as a natural consequence of your knowledge.

On that i disagree, i know myself and suspect certain things will not change, as least not due to knowledge.

 

[Waiting]

I do not know whether onesheep actually means that. But i am always amused about the notion, that the religion is not relevant. Even a casual comparison between Tlaloc and Jesus indicates at least slight differences - at least who is sacrificed for whom.

It can get messy if free will is added.

I do not understand why from “hell will not prevail against His church” it follows that the church will avoid all error. It could be that avoiding many and/or big errors could be enough, as Satan is not a perfect a less than perfect protection might be enough.

I do that.

On that i disagree, i know myself and suspect certain things will not change, as least not due to knowledge.

Jesus told Peter that whatever he loosed on earth that He, Jesus, would loose in heaven, and that whatever Peter bound on earth would be bound in heaven. Peter is still with us as Pope Benedict XVI. Therefore God is still standing behind His promise. That has never changed. No errors in dogmas pronounced by the Popes, big or little. Hell will not prevail against His Church.

As to your emotions not changing, we cannot control some things completely. As you begin to realize just how much Jesus suffered and sacrificed for us, and just how much He has offered us, it’s not possible to stay unaffected emotionally. If you can honestly say you are not affected as you learn of these things, then you are not fully understanding what it took on the part of Jesus, as man and God.

 

[Edward_H]

If God sees that you need feelings to believe in Him, He’ll give you those. If not, you don’t need them.

Be child like, be prepared to give everything to God. He may not ask you for them but you need to be ready to give all you have to Him, including your doubts.

 

[carn]

Jesus told Peter that whatever he loosed on earth that He, Jesus, would loose in heaven, and that whatever Peter bound on earth would be bound in heaven. Peter is still with us as Pope Benedict XVI. Therefore God is still standing behind His promise. That has never changed. No errors in dogmas pronounced by the Popes, big or little. Hell will not prevail against His Church.

Dogmas often refer to facts, e.g. Mary was without sin, meaning they are either true or untrue, e.g. either Mary was without sind or she sinned. Whatever it was, it is and cannot depend upon what the pope says or binds or loosens - Marys sinlessness or sinfullness does not depend on declarations of Popes and God will (and cannot) change anything about Marys state of sin.
So i do not see exactly, how the popes ability to bind or loosen things without error translates into the ability to discern the truthfullness of certain statements without error.

And besides, pope uses human words to describe things that might be beyond human words. E.g. eternal damnation. We cannot comprehend eternity, so the human term “eterna damnation” might be an insufficient description of the real thing.

 

[fhansen]

Since some time ago i realized that believing in God is the right choice i am trying to understand what that actually means.(e.g. see this thread where i try to understand the intelectual side forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=601021).

The question i am pondering here, is if a certain “mindset” or mental setup should come with believe or if some sort of thesse are incompatible with believe.

The point is, i cannot say that my heart is behind my believe. Furthermore i do not understand, why that should matter.God is good, im a sinner, i must ask for forgiveness and try to follow his commands and if i fail to far, he cannot acceptme near Him and i end up in hell. It seems that sums it up and there is no reason to attach much to that,except to accept that it is that way. I do not know, what my heart can add to that.

I mean, im pretty certain, that the sun will rise tomorrow and ill have to accept that and behave and act accordingly. It just is, so no need to develop any emotion about it and no idea what that emotion should be. Same with God, He is and i must try to behave and act accordingly.Why should i feel anything about it?

And yetfrom what i read, that not feeling anything about it might be wrong.

Furthermore i miss totally any fear about God. He is perfectly just. Its stupid to fear perfect justness as it would mean fearing just punishment and fearing just punishment means i want to cheat out of what i am responsible for.

And a part of me has a good laugh about the idea of the flying spagetti monster and even on my deathbed it would be possible, that i would enjoy watching “life of brian”, cause i cannot see much blasphemous about it (except maybe the opening scene), it just wonderfully depicts bottomless human stupidity. And i cannot help laughing about on memorable southpark scene (though that series has some distasteful parts),where some people die and end up in hell complaining that they were very religious and do not belong there, upon which they are ask what religion they adhered to. After several answers catholic, jehovas witness, muslim and so on a devil-like creature says in quizmaster style “Sorry, the correct answer would have been … mormonism Ok, the correct answer was mormonism. Sorry, now can we continue …” - absolutely hilarious, typing this i cannot help laughing.

Somehow my mindset might be wrong, but i cannot say how or why or what to do about it or if it is a problem.

Any thoughts?

You just have doubts-we all do. And contemporary pop-nonsense certainly has no answers to life’s “bigger” questions-they just add to the worlds’ cynicism. You have to develop a thirst for truth, no matter where it takes you, and in spite of what naysayers might think. Ultimately faith is between you and God-in the end it won’t matter what others think-fear of others opinions has another name: pride, and it’s a deceptive thing, it always seeks to keep us away from God-and with the herd mentality.

But it takes time. Your heart probably has more to do with your belief than you realize-reason alone can’t take you there. But our minds will continuously protest against faith, for a variety of reasons, pride, again, being the real chief culprit. It’s a process, grueling at times, where faith, little by little, supplants the lack of faith-and the reasons behind that lack of faith- that we’re born with.

 

[carn]

But it takes time. Your heart probably has more to do with your belief than you realize-reason alone can’t take you there. But our minds will continuously protest against faith, for a variety of reasons, pride, again, being the real chief culprit. It’s a process, grueling at times, where faith, little by little, supplants the lack of faith-and the reasons behind that lack of faith- that we’re born with.

With pride there is a problem.

I would call it pride to assume that by my mind, my heart or a combination thereof i can discern the truth. Therefore to avoid the mistake of pride i have to remain in doubt.

 

[fhansen]

With pride there is a problem.

I would call it pride to assume that by my mind, my heart or a combination thereof i can discern the truth. Therefore to avoid the mistake of pride i have to remain in doubt.

Yes, pride can work both ways so long as it gets its way-it’s a non-discriminatory kind of fault that’s mainly concerned with externals-how we “look” to others. But in any case faith is not about our being able to discern supernatural truths solely on our own; faith is a gift, but one that can be rejected, and, in my own life I realized later that this rejection had been driven by pride more than anything else.

OTOH, the Church teaches that we can’t force the issue, we aren’t to go against our own consciences, we can’t* make* ourselves believe. And God surely knows the truth of the matter anyway-and truth is one of the most highest valued commodities in the Christian economy. So I simply used whatever nascent, reluctant faith I had and asked, sought, and knocked, sometimes earnestly, sometimes less so, but in any event God responded in one way or the other, as scripture tells us He will, and my faith grew and still does, through occasional dry periods and doubts. But it just got stronger as He molded it into me, and my mind’s objections became less persuasive.

 

[OneSheep]

I do not know whether onesheep actually means that. But i am always amused about the notion, that the religion is not relevant. Even a casual comparison between Tlaloc and Jesus indicates at least slight differences - at least who is sacrificed for whom.
.

You are correct, I did not say “there is no perfect religion” meaning that it doesn’t matter which faith you belong to. I clarify by saying that I believe in a God who forgives, so if someone grows up in a Tlaloc-centered family and refuses to be open to other religions, God will forgive him, period. Will the person live as good a life? Will they have their spiritual needs met? I don’t know. Wikipedia says that Tlaloc is centered on a beneficent god, so if he learns to forgive and love and avoid the sacrificial aspects, he and everyone around him would be better off than if he doesn’t. So I think Tlaloc has room to improve, not the least of which would be to look at Jesus’ life.

I once heard a priest say that if a person professes faith in Jesus and says that he is a true follower, but on the other hand believes that Jesus doesn’t forgive, loves conditionally, is unconcerned about self-discipline, etc (I am paraphrasing) then he is no better off than a non-believer. In addition, if a non-believer is told about Jesus, but the Jesus he is presented is a Jesus that has the above non-Jesus characteristics, then he is better off rejecting that Jesus. I could tell an unchurched group of people until I’m blue in the face about Jesus, but if, when I get off my soap box, I am cruel to someone, then to the observers, the sermon is not over. We say so much more with our actions.

I think everything is possible. I think it is possible to know Jesus without even knowing His name. I think He is present in everyone, regardless of their religion.

 

[Jesus_123]

+Deep within the tender and loving heart of our Holy Mother Catholic Church . . . centuries upon centuries ago through the Blessed St. Ambrose . . . the Sweet Spirit of our Holy God . . . graced Christ’s Church with the . . . Apostles Creed . . . which contains a profound . . . thorough . . . prayerful . . . revelation . . . of the fundamental basics of the truths of the very essence of the Christian Catholic Faith . . . it is contained as the beginning of each of the four (4) sections of the beautiful Holy Rosary Meditational Prayer of the Blessed Virgin Mary . . . a selected one of which multitudes of Catholics pray each day . . . to read, memorize and regularly pray this beautiful devotional prayer of the Apostles Creed is a marvelous introduction and beginning for a soul sincerely desiring to know, learn of, love and follow our Lord . . . Jesus . . . **the Blessed Christ of God **. . . our Saviour . . . in holy service each day . . .

It is helpful to understand that actively embracing the holy gift from God of . . . “faith” . . . like the engine of a train . . . empowers belief within the heart of the soul of man . . . and it is very important . . . and . . .** “feelings”** . . . from the heart . . . . . . *like the caboose of a train *. . . will follow long all in due season . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
The Apostles Creed

I believe in **
God,**
the Father Almighty,
Creator
of heaven and earth,
and in ***
Jesus Christ, ***
his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the **
Holy Spirit,**
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of **
God the Father Almighty;
from there he will come
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the **
Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Precious Saviour+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
. . . thank you Blessed St. Ambrose+
​

 

[Waiting]

Dogmas often refer to facts, e.g. Mary was without sin, meaning they are either true or untrue, e.g. either Mary was without sind or she sinned. Whatever it was, it is and cannot depend upon what the pope says or binds or loosens - Marys sinlessness or sinfullness does not depend on declarations of Popes and God will (and cannot) change anything about Marys state of sin.
So i do not see exactly, how the popes ability to bind or loosen things without error translates into the ability to discern the truthfullness of certain statements without error.

And besides, pope uses human words to describe things that might be beyond human words. E.g. eternal damnation. We cannot comprehend eternity, so the human term “eterna damnation” might be an insufficient description of the real thing.

Mary’s sinlessness is material for another thread. I won’t give arguments here. However, if the Pope declares that all Catholics are bound ro believe that Mary remained sinless her entire life, then it is a true statement not to be questioned by Catholics. You can believe or not believe, as you choose, but since Jesus promised to bind or loosen what Peter (the Pope) declares, then I know for a fact that it is true. Otherwise, Jesus is a liar. Being God, that is impossible. Yes, the Pope uses human words to describe eternal things, but never forget that the Holy Spirit is always guiding him. That’s good enough for me.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

…
Somehow my mindset might be wrong, but i cannot say how or why or what to do about it or if it is a problem.

Any thoughts?

A couple of things that might be missing:

A sense of divine providence. You should start to look for evidence of God’s love for you in your life, and look for what God’s will is for you. It’s not just about believing that God exists (even the devil believes that God exists) it is also about trusting in Him and resigning yourself to His will.

You should start to see yourself differently. As a Christian you become a child of God and this should have an effect on your mindset. This should also lead you to wanting to know your Father better, and to spend time in prayer.

I don’t think you can force those things, but they should come with time.