Any non catholic: what is your opinion on Mary the Mother of God?

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It means what surrogate ususally means: Mary’s womb was used by God to grow the embryo we call Jesus.
Ok… What about the rest of Mary? How the heck was Jesus supposed to stay purified in her womb if Mary herself had dirty hands, spoke lies, or sinned? I am not using this as a defense of the Immaculate Conception. I am saying that the rest of Mary was equally needed to nurture Jesus. 1 Corinthians 12:21 says, “The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I do not need you.’” In the same way, the womb cannot say, “I do not need the rest of my body.” So, your theory is negated.
It being mentioned had nothing specifically to do with Mary except she was a virgin. It fulfilled prophecy AND it assured that Jesus would be special, not just a regular human. If Mary was not a virgin initially, then how would we know the embryo of Jesus was special? We wouldn’t.
Agreed. But it was still significantly necessary.
I’m not sure what the highlighted part means.
It was just saying that you agree with what “Mother”, “of” and “God” are saying in the doctrine, just not what “Mother of God” says about Jesus. What “Mother”, “of” and “God” mean are the exact same thing that “Mother of God” means.

But, you do not make sense because you agree with the doctrine, but refuse to take the doctrine.
 
Ok… What about the rest of Mary? How the heck was Jesus supposed to stay purified in her womb if Mary herself had dirty hands, spoke lies, or sinned? I am not using this as a defense of the Immaculate Conception. I am saying that the rest of Mary was equally needed to nurture Jesus. 1 Corinthians 12:21 says, “The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I do not need you.’” In the same way, the womb cannot say, “I do not need the rest of my body.” So, your theory is negated.
Not necessary. Jesus lives in all believers. We aren’t ‘clean’ as you mentioned. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us just like it cleansed Mary.
 
Not necessary. Jesus lives in all believers. We aren’t ‘clean’ as you mentioned. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us just like it cleansed Mary.
Ok… I need to be more clear on what I am NOT talking about.

I was NOT talking about Mary’s Immaculate Conception. (Although your response does support it that much more because He had to get His clean blood from somewhere.)

I was saying that keeping in line with St. Paul’s exhortation on Christ’s Church as One Body should shed light on why the Surrogate Mother Theory cannot be true. Here is why:

If you say that God just used her womb, what did he do with the rest of her?

That would contradict what 1 Corinthians says about the body (reference my last post). Her womb NEEDS the other body parts also. One cannot just say “God used her womb.” That would mean he is denying her dignity of human life! “I am just going to use your womb and disregard the rest of you.” Well, if you are not saying that, then do not say “surrogate mother”.

“I am just saying God used her womb, not that he did not use her other body parts.” Then, God used the rest of her too, and the Surrogate Mother Theory is false. Let us look at some other possibilities.

People only use the surrogate mother’s womb. And perhaps maybe, they look for good health, good cheeks and such. (This helps Immaculate Conception a little…)

Mary would not have been so joyous about somebody using just her womb, even if it was God. Perhaps she may not have even said yes. I cannot see any woman saying “Yes” to “I am only going to use your womb for 9 months.” Nor can I see a loving God just using one body part after the woman had freely said, “Yes!” (More on that later.)

In any case, a surrogate mother uses an implantation in her uterus of a fertilized egg from another woman OR uses her own egg fertilized by the other woman’s partner.

I guess you kind of use the second definition (because the first transcends the realms of sanity in this conversation). But that still does not make sense. Who is the “other woman”? Or if you say “…by the other being’s partner” Who is the partner? Is the Holy Spirit the partner? Then the partner (Holy Spirit) and the initial being (Father) are two separate entities.

You can say, “Well they are one just like husband and wife are one flesh. So, the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary’s egg.” Ok… Is the husband the Holy Spirit or the Father? According to surrogate mother, the Holy Spirit is the husband which makes the wife the Father. Or are they both the husband?

“Well, the husband and wife thing is an analogy, not a perfect parallel. The Holy Spirit is the Love of God the Father that conceived Christ in Mary’s fertilized egg.” Fair enough… What kind of “Love” would use just a part of Mary’s body and not the rest? Love does not seek its own interests according 1 Corinthians 13. Usually (if not always), surrogate mothers are used because the woman cannot bear any child. In God’s case, surely He could have just made out of nothing like Adam, but He used a woman to bear Him. If it was a surrogate mother thing, then this “Love” seeked its own interests and only used part of the body of a woman. Therefore, God has contradicted Himself in the Surrogate Mother Theory.

This theory is even on the borderline between legitimate and rape. I am not at all implying that you think this…

I am just showing you that the Surrogate Mother Theory is contrary to reality.

Have any other theories? That is, unless you have legitimate objections to this argument. Please do not say, “Thank you for your opinion.” I would really like to have a discussion about this.
 
Not necessary. Jesus lives in all believers. We aren’t ‘clean’ as you mentioned. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us just like it cleansed Mary.
Do you believe that Jesus is the Creator?

Do you believe He is the great IAM?

Do you believe He was the one who covenanted with Abraham, led the Jews out of Egypt, parted the Red Sea, and led Israel to the Promised Land?

If so, who did Mary bring into this world?

Since the Father does not have a body, anything physical in Jesus Body had to come from Mary. Had her blood been tainted, so would His. She was a Temple, and His holiest Temple was made from her.
 
Adam was created perfect…Free from sin
Eve was created perfect…Free from sin

He obviously has created people free from any sin and perfect in nature.(their fall from grace does not take away from the fact that they were Perfect and sinless at one point)

Can anyone imagine that God would create His own mother to be LESS then PERFECT?

Mary spoke the most important words ever uttered by a person…“Do what ever HE tells you”…👍 Great advice to follow:thumbsup:
 
Not necessary. Jesus lives in all believers. We aren’t ‘clean’ as you mentioned. The Blood of Jesus cleanses us just like it cleansed Mary.
**And God applied the saving blood of Christ to Mary when she was conceived. **

**Not everybody in history had to wait to be saved. Remember Enoch and Elijah? Did they have to wait for Christ’s sacrifice or do you believe that God can apply the merits of that sacrifice to ANYBODY he wills?

Remember - God is not limited by your understanding of him . . .
 
**And God applied the saving blood of Christ to Mary when **she was conceived.
.
And in addition, we now know that antbodies from the blood opf their children stay in women for decades protecting them – important pro-life point: The children women carry literally protet them the rest of their lives in this way.

Since we know that Mary carrying Jesus was just like other women carrying children, something of His blood remained in hers. In addition, since His father contribute no bilogical component to his conception, all the material of His Body and Blood came from Mary to begin with. There can be nothing in Christ’s Body that did not originate in Mary, even if transformed in the growth of His body within her.

I hope Ie xpressed that simply enough.
 
Do you believe that Jesus is the Creator? YES

Do you believe He is the great IAM? YES

Do you believe He was the one who covenanted with Abraham, led the Jews out of Egypt, parted the Red Sea, and led Israel to the Promised Land? SURE

If so, who did Mary bring into this world? Jesus

Since the Father does not have a body, anything physical in Jesus Body had to come from Mary. Had her blood been tainted, so would His. She was a Temple, so are we and His holiest Temple was made from her.
 
**And God applied the saving blood of Christ to Mary when **she was conceived.
Thank you for your opinion
Not everybody in history had to wait to be saved. Remember Enoch and Elijah?
Different type of salvation. They were sinners because all have sinned.
Did *they *
have to wait for Christ’s sacrifice or do you believe that God can apply the merits of that sacrifice to ANYBODY he wills?

They didn’t die so that’s a different situation.
Remember - God is not limited by your understanding of him . . .
True. Then why limit Him by saying Mary had to be immaculately conceived?
 
True. Then why limit Him by saying Mary had to be immaculately conceived?
How is saying “He protected His own mother from the corruption due to sin” a limitation of His power?

Can you respond to my previous message? Pretty please?

Meaning can we stay on the topic of Mother God? Once we prove to you that she really is, then we will prove to you that she is immaculately conceived. Or at least, you will understand why we believe it.
 
Different type of salvation. They were sinners because all have sinned.
Differnet TYPE of salvation?? Salvation is SALVATION.
They didn’t die so that’s a different situation.
There is a Tradition says that Mary didn’t either, so it’s not so different.
True. Then why limit Him by saying Mary had to be immaculately conceived?
That doesn’t limit him. That shows his power.
**You must remember that NT fulfillments are ALWAYS mor glorious than their OT type. Mary’s OT type was the Ark, which carried symbols of God. **
Mary carried the REAL thing - God incarnate.
 
Thank you for your opinion
[SIGN]
True. Then why limit Him by saying Mary had to be immaculately conceived?[/SIGN]
The IC is limiting God? How so? Please explain.

I think on the contrary, He is limitless that God can and have the power to do this to Mary, and the question should be, why wouldn’t God do it? By you stating God not doing it, then you are the one limiting God.
 
How is saying “He protected His own mother from the corruption due to sin” a limitation of His power?

Can you respond to my previous message? Pretty please?

Meaning can we stay on the topic of Mother God? Once we prove to you that she really is, then we will prove to you that she is immaculately conceived. Or at least, you will understand why we believe it.
What message do you want me to respond to?

I believe I’ve said all I can on the topic.

Try to convince me if you want. I believe I understand why you think Mary’s immaculate conception is important.
 
The IC is limiting God? How so? Please explain.

I think on the contrary, He is limitless that God can and have the power to do this to Mary, and the question should be, why wouldn’t God do it? By you stating God not doing it, then you are the one limiting God.
Why did Mary have to be immaculately conceived? Sure God could have. God could do the same for all of us. He doesn’t and IMO, He didn’t.
 
For Jesus. “How can something clean come from something unclean?”
Gregg,
Without denying the possibility of the IC, could God’s grace have filled her, making clean, at some point after her birth, but prior to Christ being conceived in her womb by the power of the HS?

Jon
 
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