Any other Messianic Jews Here?

[Peter_J]

While belief in the coming of the Messiah is part of Maimonides’ 13 principles of Jewish faith, not all Jews believe in a Messiah or a Messianic age, and even Jews (including the Orthodox) who do believe in this, do not generally make it the cornerstone of their faith.

Yes but those who call themselves “Messianic Jews” don’t just mean that that is a cornerstone of their faith; they mean that they’re Christian / believe that Jesus was the Messiah. That to me makes the term misleading.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I identify now as a Reform Jew with some Conservative leanings. I was raised in a Conservative home and attended an Orthodox synagogue as a youth.

Well I guess I wasn’t entirely wrong XD. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Peter_J]

You are right about the existence of antisemitism even today, unfortunately. But what a can of worms you are opening with regard to Polish Catholics and the Holocaust! There is evidence on both sides of the issue.

Indeed. And I’d like to add on to that, a lot has changed even just in the last several decades.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

“Messianic Jews” are actually a denomination of evangelical Christians. Because some of this denomination’s members are ethnically Jewish, they have tried to claim that their denomination is in reality a Jewish sect, especially in connection with the Law of Return to the State of Israel. But Jewish organizations,and the Supreme Court of Israel have rejected their claim. What is really misleading is that people use this as a blanket term for all Jews who believe in a Messiah or in Jesus as the Messiah, and this is not correct.

Now I am sure all of you Christians, despite your religion, have an ethnicity you can make claim to, right?

I am a Roman Catholic, but two years ago the Law of the Right of Return was extended to me by Spain because I am a descendant of Jews persecuted and expelled from the country in 1492.

It was a rabbi who first recognized and identified me as “Jewish” some 25 years ago. Since then my family has uncovered much about our past. The documents from the Spanish Inquisition with names of my ancestors on them show I am descended from Catholics who had been Christians for many years before they settled in Spain, according to family history from the time of the Second Temple.

I may be a Catholic, but I am a son of Abraham. According to family history my mother’s side is Levite and my father’s side is of the tribe of Judah. My mother tongue, Ladino, is considered a language of the Jews. What other nationality speaks it?

My DNA has the Semitic markers of Mizrahi Jews. If there can be Irish Catholics and Mexican-American Catholics and Japanese Catholics, what am I? Am I not a Hebrew? Since I am supposed to be of the tribe of Judah, does that not make me a Jew?

If Mexican Catholics can celebrate Dia de los muertos by building their “ofrendas” which are little offerings of food and such to the dead, a practice taken from pagans, why should any Gentile Catholic take issue if I hold on to any part of my culture, especially since none of it is pagan?

Catholicism lets people keep their national and cultural identity. But to hear what some non-Jews say that I can’t or shouldn’t call myself this or that, what am I to do them? If I am to assimilate, to what culture do I assimilate to? One that was handed down from pagans? One that is secular? One that is not my own?

If some Jews feel I should not use the term “Jewish,” they have every right to their view. They are Jews.

But I don’t know how appropriate it is for non-Jews to say how I should or shouldn’t identify myself or what part of my culture I should or should not keep.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

My Ladino is quite good, but I don’t have anyone to speak with any longer as all my relatives have passed.

I know this is a bit separate from the thread but I hope you always attempt to cultivate your Ladino as best as you can. I understand that it’s difficult considering that it’s rarely spoken and it’s even more difficult to find literature in that language. But keeping it alive and passing it down to children is very important with languages.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

I know this is a bit separate from the thread but I hope you always attempt to cultivate your Ladino as best as you can. I understand that it’s difficult considering that it’s rarely spoken and it’s even more difficult to find literature in that language. But keeping it alive and passing it down to children is very important with languages.

Thanks. Along with occasionally having to speak “Spanish” to someone, and therefore having to work though my Ladino to so, there are a few songs traditionally sung at Passover and Chanukah that I still sing each year, so it’s not entirely dead in the water.

And I hope all realize I was just asking general questions in my last post–just some points to ponder. I don’t know if we will ever have answers we can all agree on.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

“Messianic Jews” are actually a denomination of evangelical Christians. Because some of this denomination’s members are ethnically Jewish, they have tried to claim that their denomination is in reality a Jewish sect, especially in connection with the Law of Return to the State of Israel. But Jewish organizations,and the Supreme Court of Israel have rejected their claim. What is really misleading is that people use this as a blanket term for all Jews who believe in a Messiah or in Jesus as the Messiah, and this is not correct.

Now I am sure all of you Christians, despite your religion, have an ethnicity you can make claim to, right?

I am a Roman Catholic, but two years ago the Law of the Right of Return was extended to me by Spain because I am a descendant of Jews persecuted and expelled from the country in 1492.

It was a rabbi who first recognized and identified me as “Jewish” some 25 years ago. Since then my family has uncovered much about our past. The documents from the Spanish Inquisition with names of my ancestors on them show I am descended from Catholics who had been Christians for many years before they settled in Spain, according to family history from the time of the Second Temple.

I may be a Catholic, but I am a son of Abraham. According to family history my mother’s side is Levite and my father’s side is of the tribe of Judah. My mother tongue, Ladino, is considered a language of the Jews. What other nationality speaks it?

My DNA has the Semitic markers of Mizrahi Jews. If there can be Irish Catholics and Mexican-American Catholics and Japanese Catholics, what am I? Am I not a Hebrew? Since I am supposed to be of the tribe of Judah, does that not make me a Jew?

If Mexican Catholics can celebrate Dia de los muertos by building their “ofrendas” which are little offerings of food and such to the dead, a practice taken from pagans, why should any Gentile Catholic take issue if I hold on to any part of my culture, especially since none of it is pagan?

Catholicism lets people keep their national and cultural identity. But to hear what some non-Jews say that I can’t or shouldn’t call myself this or that, what am I to do them? If I am to assimilate, to what culture do I assimilate to? One that was handed down from pagans? One that is secular? One that is not my own?

If some Jews feel I should not use the term “Jewish,” they have every right to their view. They are Jews.

But I don’t know how appropriate it is for non-Jews to say how I should or shouldn’t identify myself or what part of my culture I should or should not keep.

I think it’s a matter that people often do not know history, and are often confused of what the term ‘Jew’ means. Some people I don’t think can understand that you can separate the “Hebrew” (ethno-cultural group) from the “Jew” (religious adherent). To a lesser extent, this happens among other groups. I’d say that the nearly universal conception of a Greek today is associated with the Greek Orthodox Church. I can’t tell you how many people have scratched their heads of me when I tell them that I was raised in a Pentecostal family, even though we are 100% born and raised Italian. An Italian is “supposed” to be a Roman Catholic.

When you study history, all the nuances become easier to grasp, but most people see a black-and-white view to everything. Many Hebrews, affiliated with the ancient Jewish faith, would reject a Hebrew convert to Catholicism or Messianism (whatever form) as “unJewish” because they have “assimilated.” Additionally, laws are difficult to work with because they often can’t adapt to the variables.

 

[andrewstx]

“Messianic Jews” are actually a denomination of evangelical Christians. Because some of this denomination’s members are ethnically Jewish, they have tried to claim that their denomination is in reality a Jewish sect, especially in connection with the Law of Return to the State of Israel. But Jewish organizations,and the Supreme Court of Israel have rejected their claim. What is really misleading is that people use this as a blanket term for all Jews who believe in a Messiah or in Jesus as the Messiah, and this is not correct.

Now I am sure all of you Christians, despite your religion, have an ethnicity you can make claim to, right?

I am a Roman Catholic, but two years ago the Law of the Right of Return was extended to me by Spain because I am a descendant of Jews persecuted and expelled from the country in 1492.

It was a rabbi who first recognized and identified me as “Jewish” some 25 years ago. Since then my family has uncovered much about our past. The documents from the Spanish Inquisition with names of my ancestors on them show I am descended from Catholics who had been Christians for many years before they settled in Spain, according to family history from the time of the Second Temple.

I may be a Catholic, but I am a son of Abraham. According to family history my mother’s side is Levite and my father’s side is of the tribe of Judah. My mother tongue, Ladino, is considered a language of the Jews. What other nationality speaks it?

My DNA has the Semitic markers of Mizrahi Jews. If there can be Irish Catholics and Mexican-American Catholics and Japanese Catholics, what am I? Am I not a Hebrew? Since I am supposed to be of the tribe of Judah, does that not make me a Jew?

If Mexican Catholics can celebrate Dia de los muertos by building their “ofrendas” which are little offerings of food and such to the dead, a practice taken from pagans, why should any Gentile Catholic take issue if I hold on to any part of my culture, especially since none of it is pagan?

Catholicism lets people keep their national and cultural identity. But to hear what some non-Jews say that I can’t or shouldn’t call myself this or that, what am I to do them? If I am to assimilate, to what culture do I assimilate to? One that was handed down from pagans? One that is secular? One that is not my own?

If some Jews feel I should not use the term “Jewish,” they have every right to their view. They are Jews.

But I don’t know how appropriate it is for non-Jews to say how I should or shouldn’t identify myself or what part of my culture I should or should not keep.

Delson, I was speaking only of the Evangelical Christians who are fundamentalist Christians in Jewish drag and never of you.

You are the only Sephardi (sp) that I have ever met . All locally are Ashkenazi to a man.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Thanks. Along with occasionally having to speak “Spanish” to someone, and therefore having to work though my Ladino to so, there are a few songs traditionally sung at Passover and Chanukah that I still sing each year, so it’s not entirely dead in the water.

And I hope all realize I was just asking general questions in my last post–just some points to ponder. I don’t know if we will ever have answers we can all agree on.

Why can’t you be hebrew catholic?
I guess I don’t understand what the big deal is. It is what YOU want.
There are many of us who do not know our ancestral identity.
For all I know I could have had jewish ancestors.
I studied judaism and considered converting but I realized I found hope in catholicism. You seem angry at christianity and especially messianicjews. I don’t agree with the decision of the supreme court on the right of return by the way. I find some of what you say offensive.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Why can’t you be hebrew catholic?
I guess I don’t understand what the big deal is. It is what YOU want.
There are many of us who do not know our ancestral identity.
For all I know I could have had jewish ancestors.
I studied judaism and considered converting but I realized I found hope in catholicism. You seem angry at christianity and especially messianicjews. I don’t agree with the decision of the supreme court on the right of return by the way. I find some of what you say offensive.

I am Hebrew Catholic or Jewish Catholic or just Roman Catholic. I don’t have to be one or the other.

Actually I am not angry at anyone. I’m a Christian, and having worked for some years in the office of my Bishop and diocese I also got to work and made many friends in the Evangelical community. I have no qualms whatsoever with the Messianic Jews. And I am not angry with Christians. I am one.

I am not sure what you found offensive.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Delson, I was speaking only of the Evangelical Christians who are fundamentalist Christians in Jewish drag and never of you.

You are the only Sephardi (sp) that I have ever met . All locally are Ashkenazi to a man.

No problem. I was speaking in generalities and asking questions I believe many of us will ask from now till “Kingdom Come,” as they say.

 

[meltzerboy]

“Messianic Jews” are actually a denomination of evangelical Christians. Because some of this denomination’s members are ethnically Jewish, they have tried to claim that their denomination is in reality a Jewish sect, especially in connection with the Law of Return to the State of Israel. But Jewish organizations,and the Supreme Court of Israel have rejected their claim. What is really misleading is that people use this as a blanket term for all Jews who believe in a Messiah or in Jesus as the Messiah, and this is not correct.

Now I am sure all of you Christians, despite your religion, have an ethnicity you can make claim to, right?

I am a Roman Catholic, but two years ago the Law of the Right of Return was extended to me by Spain because I am a descendant of Jews persecuted and expelled from the country in 1492.

It was a rabbi who first recognized and identified me as “Jewish” some 25 years ago. Since then my family has uncovered much about our past. The documents from the Spanish Inquisition with names of my ancestors on them show I am descended from Catholics who had been Christians for many years before they settled in Spain, according to family history from the time of the Second Temple.

I may be a Catholic, but I am a son of Abraham. According to family history my mother’s side is Levite and my father’s side is of the tribe of Judah. My mother tongue, Ladino, is considered a language of the Jews. What other nationality speaks it?

My DNA has the Semitic markers of Mizrahi Jews. If there can be Irish Catholics and Mexican-American Catholics and Japanese Catholics, what am I? Am I not a Hebrew? Since I am supposed to be of the tribe of Judah, does that not make me a Jew?

If Mexican Catholics can celebrate Dia de los muertos by building their “ofrendas” which are little offerings of food and such to the dead, a practice taken from pagans, why should any Gentile Catholic take issue if I hold on to any part of my culture, especially since none of it is pagan?

Catholicism lets people keep their national and cultural identity. But to hear what some non-Jews say that I can’t or shouldn’t call myself this or that, what am I to do them? If I am to assimilate, to what culture do I assimilate to? One that was handed down from pagans? One that is secular? One that is not my own?

If some Jews feel I should not use the term “Jewish,” they have every right to their view. They are Jews.

But I don’t know how appropriate it is for non-Jews to say how I should or shouldn’t identify myself or what part of my culture I should or should not keep.

The way I see it, you will forever be a Jew AND a Catholic: the best of both worlds! Never mind what others may think or say. It is YOUR identity, not theirs.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The way I see it, you will forever be a Jew AND a Catholic: the best of both worlds! Never mind what others may think or say. It is YOUR identity, not theirs.

Thank you. That is pretty much what I was trying to say.
Don’t worry what others think. If you find yourself identifying more with your jewish heritage maybe you should consider converting to judaism.
You don’t mention your age so I don’t know how long you have been a practicing catholic but you seem to be fixated on what you consider to be pagan.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

There are Jews who converted to Catholicism (Hebrew Catholics) who are not restricted by the Church when it comes to practising Jewish rituals.

 

[Peter_J]

The way I see it, you will forever be a Jew AND a Catholic: the best of both worlds! Never mind what others may think or say. It is YOUR identity, not theirs.

I would even go a step further: I generally expect *everyone *-- well, not as an absolute principle, but as a “default” – to see their own religion as “the best of both”.

In my own case, I’ve been in many conversations in which someone describes Eastern Catholicism as “the best of both worlds” … just as, conversely, (although I don’t think this is said nearly as often) I would assume that a Western-Rite Orthodox regards Western-Rite Orthodoxy as “the best of both worlds”. (Note: I mean Orthodoxy as in the Orthodox Church, not Orthodox Judaism.)

 

[Kaninchen]

I don’t think that worrying what others think is really the problem - it’s demanding that they agree with you because otherwise they’re very naughty/nasty that’s the problem.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Thank you. That is pretty much what I was trying to say.
Don’t worry what others think. If you find yourself identifying more with your jewish heritage maybe you should consider converting to judaism.
You don’t mention your age so I don’t know how long you have been a practicing catholic but you seem to be fixated on what you consider to be pagan.

I was born into a Catholic family and baptized as an infant, went to a Catholic school–and except for a short time as a teen and early 20s when my parents went berserk and joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses–I have remained a practicing Catholic for almost 50 years now. (I’m actually an apologist for the Catholic faith, and if you look at my other posts here you will see I specialize in defending the Catholic Church and others in the face of challenges from the Jehovah’s Witnesses.)

I can’t help identifying with my Jewish heritage because I don’t have any other. My family kept the culture alive for centuries, and I have no other I know. I didn’t know that I was eating kosher or that my Spanish was actually Ladino (I grew up in South Texas near the Mexican border). I didn’t know why we never held or went to wakes when someone died or that what we were doing was sitting “shiva” when someone passed away. We would say “Dio bendiga” instead of “Dios bendiga,” and I didn’t know why. Why circumcise all the boys in the family? Why buy new dishes every spring? Why have a practice of reading and memorizing Scripture that went beyond what my other friends did?

All these things are but a few of the Sephardi earmarks that I identify with, not because I want to identify with being anything more than a member of my family. It’s what and who we are. Our customs, our language, our diet just happens to be Jewish.

If I were Mexican, like most around me were, would you tell me to stop identifying with my Mexican culture? Why tell me: “If you find yourself identifying more with your jewish heritage maybe you should consider converting to Judaism.” If I were a Mexican-American how could I not identify with being a Mexican? Would you tell a Mexican-American: “If you find yourself identifying more with your Mexican heritage, maybe you should consider moving back to Mexico,” would you?

 

[7_Sorrows]

I was born into a Catholic family and baptized as an infant, went to a Catholic school–and except for a short time as a teen and early 20s when my parents went berserk and joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses–I have remained a practicing Catholic for almost 50 years now. (I’m actually an apologist for the Catholic faith, and if you look at my other posts here you will see I specialize in defending the Catholic Church and others in the face of challenges from the Jehovah’s Witnesses.)

I can’t help identifying with my Jewish heritage because I don’t have any other. My family kept the culture alive for centuries, and I have no other I know. I didn’t know that I was eating kosher or that my Spanish was actually Ladino (I grew up in South Texas near the Mexican border). I didn’t know why we never held or went to wakes when someone died or that what we were doing was sitting “shiva” when someone passed away. We would say “Dio bendiga” instead of “Dios bendiga,” and I didn’t know why. Why circumcise all the boys in the family? Why buy new dishes every spring? Why have a practice of reading and memorizing Scripture that went beyond what my other friends did?

All these things are but a few of the Sephardi earmarks that I identify with, not because I want to identify with being anything more than a member of my family. It’s what and who we are. Our customs, our language, our diet just happens to be Jewish.

If I were Mexican, like most around me were, would you tell me to stop identifying with my Mexican culture? Why tell me: “If you find yourself identifying more with your jewish heritage maybe you should consider converting to Judaism.” If I were a Mexican-American how could I not identify with being a Mexican? Would you tell a Mexican-American: “If you find yourself identifying more with your Mexican heritage, maybe you should consider moving back to Mexico,” would you?

I am just confused then as to what your problem is. As a hebrew catholic can’t you continue to honor the jewish holidays… and why use dio and not dios. Maybe you didn’t hear the s at the end. I have been around spanish speakers in the past 40 years. It is your decision but you seem happy complaining. You have been a catholic longer than I have.

 

[josie_L]

Anti Semitism still exists, and predjudice. Don’t you realize how many Polish Catholics participated eagerly in the WWII Hollocost?

Is that why 3 million Polish Catholics were killed?? Because they were so eager to participate in WWII?

P.S. And yes, Meltzerboy, he did open a can of worms, i.e., not sure why Andrew brought this up considering it is more than 50 years after the fact?

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Is that why 3 million Polish Catholics were killed?? Because they were so eager to participate in WWII?

P.S. And yes, Meltzerboy, he did open a can of worms, i.e., not sure why Andrew brought this up considering it is more than 50 years after the fact?