Any other Stay At Home Moms get this?

[Katie966]

I completely agree with you, Katie. My beef was with what Nick was saying about SAHM putting unnecessary financial strain on their future husbands. I think that is ridiculous. I do know that some parents are unable to contribute to their children’s education, and I didn’t mean to imply that if a parent didn’t that they were not good parents. My good parents remark was meant specifically about my parents teaching me about hard work and saving money.

ETA: I also was trying to point out that SAHM are NOT all rich and privileged like Nick asserted, but apparently that’s not going over well.

Totally agreed. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

Yes, this whole white privilege thing is off topic and ridiculous.

Nick, I am kind of wondering what you think that women should do? EasterJoy’s posts are excellent and said it all really, but I get the impression that you think women should just not go to college. So what should we do when we don’t marry right away? How should we occupy our time?

 

[Em_in_FL]

This is sort of a rant–just warning you all. I’m wondering how many other SAHMs run across this.

I’m one of those SAHMs who has a college degree. I went through the whole thing, even though I never planned on actually using the degree I’ve earned. My first desire has always been to be a mother. But I got the degree so that I would have something to fall back on, in the event that my husband is ever not able to work.

These types of threads pop up every once in a while and emotions get flared on both sides…
We all have to remember we come from very unique perspectives, backgrounds, exposures, and experiences… so our reactions are going to reflect those unique circumstances.

I’m a working mom with a couple of advanced degrees. ducks for cover

As a working mom (and I loved karow’s full post above ), I could never imagine insulting a SAHM - so on behalf of other working mom’s who may have insulted you in this way - I apologize. I *promise *the majority of us are not like that… at least most working moms I’ve ever come in contact with (and I know a *lot *through our daycare and through my work). Actually, I’d *LOVE *to be a SAHM… it’s just never worked out… and that’s okay.

I want to comment on Nick’s posts a little… at least my perspective of how I read them…

Sometimes it’s difficult to listen to a woman say “I never plan on using my degree” because it can be heard (remember our unique backgrounds) as “I refuse to ever work”. This can be heard (especially by potential future husbands - possibly Nick??) in a very *selfish *tone… I want to have my cake (get my “education”) and eat it too (never desiring to work), and I want my husband to pay off any education costs too. Sometimes the tone can be heard as very bossy and selfish. Guys get turned off by that.

Now, the OP did NOT say “I refuse to ever work”… she said “But I got the degree so that I would have something to fall back on, in the event that my husband is ever not able to work.” And I truly believe that this is how most woman in this situation really FEEL.

So the difference is what’s in their hearts (desire to care for their children and home, and have a degree as a back-up-plan) vs how it may be heard (bossy, selfish) by those who don’t come from the same background of understanding.

So my suggestion to this entire thread is not to get riled up over this issue. Don’t allow it to cause so much DRAMA (because that’s all it is)!
If you’re a SAHM (like the OP) who encounters a meanie-workin’-mom and you get questions like that - DON’T FEED THE DRAMA! and don’t take offense… just walk it off, say a little prayer that her heart is open to fuller understanding, and let it go. Forgive her misunderstanding.

We could all gain a little by turning off our JUDGEMENTS… because we don’t fully understand anyone’s personal situation.

 

[lotusblossom]

I haven’t read many of the replies, but Summer, I feel ya! I got my degree and used it for exactly 8 months . Then, I had my first son. Unfortunately, both my DH and I incurred an insane amount of student loan debt by choosing the university we chose to attend, so I have ended up having to go back to work a couple of times part-time due to my DH losing his job and whatnot. One of those times, it was to my advantage to have my degree. Right now, I work in a cloth diapering store where my degree means nothing, but it’s the best job (as far as jobs go b/c I hate working) I’ve had since I graduated college. Anyway, I find it incredibly sad that our worth as women/mothers/wives in our society today is based upon how we contribute to the workforce. Do people not realize that as SAHMs, we are raising good citizens? Not to say that working mothers aren’t b/c I know they are. But regardless of whether or not you work, why do people feel the need to say you aren’t contributing enough to society by just being a mother? Or just being at all? Our worth is based on the fact that God made us. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

I originally got my degree because I knew I’d be more likely to find a spouse who was equally educated and at my level of thinking (and faith b/c I went to a Catholic university). And I wanted the experience of learning something specialized that I’d enjoy IF I didn’t meet my spouse or get married. Now, it’s my fall-back plan and has already been put in use. And my children see my DH and me as examples of the value of higher education. Both my parents have college degrees, so it was assumed and expected that I would follow down that same path. I liked that. Not all of my siblings have gone to college, but most of them have because of this expectation (and the one who hasn’t has not been made to feel inferior). Anyway, that’s my rant.

 

[Nick_89]

I completely agree with you, Katie. My beef was with what Nick was saying about SAHM putting unnecessary financial strain on their future husbands. I think that is ridiculous. I do know that some parents are unable to contribute to their children’s education, and I didn’t mean to imply that if a parent didn’t that they were not good parents. My good parents remark was meant specifically about my parents teaching me about hard work and saving money.

I don’t have anything against SAHMs. If your financial situation allows you to do so, then go right ahead. I wish my mom could’ve stayed at home, instead of working 60 hours per week.

All I’m saying is that when people are surprised by a college-educated SAHM, don’t be so quick to feel offended. Of course, they might be patronizing you. I wouldn’t automatically assume that though. For those who don’t have or come from money, a college degree represents a ticket to better job opportunities. (As opposed to something you just do for fun)

 

[kristacecilia]

I don’t have anything against SAHMs. If your financial situation allows you to do so, then go right ahead. I wish my mom could’ve stayed at home, instead of working 60 hours per week.

All I’m saying is that when people are surprised by a college-educated SAHM, don’t be so quick to feel offended. Of course, they might be patronizing you. I wouldn’t automatically assume that though. For those who don’t have or come from money, a college degree represents a ticket to better job opportunities. (As opposed to something you just do for fun)

But you assume that I came from money. You don’t even know me.

My parents and BOTH sets of my grandparents started out with almost nothing. You know what they did? They signed up for the military right out of high school. Last time I checked the US Military was equal opportunity.

 

[Cristiano]

I don’t have anything against SAHMs. If your financial situation allows you to do so, then go right ahead. I wish my mom could’ve stayed at home, instead of working 60 hours per week.

All I’m saying is that when people are surprised by a college-educated SAHM, don’t be so quick to feel offended. Of course, they might be patronizing you. I wouldn’t automatically assume that though. For those who don’t have or come from money, a college degree represents a ticket to better job opportunities. (As opposed to something you just do for fun)

I think that very few people go to college just for fun. Most of the people understand the social need for a good education and the possible financial advantages that could come out of it. However, a lot of people are not greedy and they do not try to maximize the financial income but they choose to balance other factors in their lives. Sometime both parents need to work, but very often couples choose to work because of lifestyle priorities. We must remember that today the average poor in this country is in much better off than the average rich that lived in this country more than 100 years ago.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

What does “use your degree” mean, anyway?

I have a BA. I am a SAHM.

I answer approximately 5,000 questions per day. Liberal arts is useful for something!

I use my education in many, many things I do.

I make really good conversation at cocktail parties, too.

But seriously, education is never wasted. Money, however, can be frittered away on many things.
It’s not for me to decide what’s an acceptable way to spend other people’s money. $50K on an education…$50K on a luxury car…I think the education is a better way to spend the money, but hey, different strokes.

And lastly, one doesn’t need a university degree to get ahead and prosper. Some of the most well-off people I know are plumbers, contractors, and civil servants.

 

[Nick_89]

But you assume that I came from money. You don’t even know me.

I never said you came from money. I said you benefited from white privilege (to some extent), which doesn’t necessarily have to do with money. That much is true, whether you admit it or not. Canada has it’s own sordid history of racial discrimination, just like the good ole’ US of A.

My parents and BOTH sets of my grandparents started out with almost nothing. You know what they did? They signed up for the military right out of high school. Last time I checked the US Military was equal opportunity.

Canada has a military?..just kidding! Yes, the US Military is technically equal opportunity. Although you’ll find that people of lower socioeconomic status are disproportionately represented in the non-officer ranks. (That includes poor white people as well) You basically have to sign your life away to them for 6 years if you want to receive college tuition assistance. When I got a call from an Army recruiter my senior year of high school I asked him flat-out: “Would I definitely end up in Iraq or Afghanistan?” He paused for a few moments and said: “Yeah.” Also, not everybody is accepted into the military. (Health issues, etc.)

 

[gardenswithkids]

…Sometimes it’s difficult to listen to a woman say “I never plan on using my degree” because it can be heard (remember our unique backgrounds) as “I refuse to ever work”. This can be heard (especially by potential future husbands - possibly Nick??) in a very *selfish *tone…

…Now, the OP did NOT say “I refuse to ever work”… she said “But I got the degree so that I would have something to fall back on, in the event that my husband is ever not able to work.” And I truly believe that this is how most woman in this situation really FEEL…

Em, I think you are onto something.

It hits me that the SAHM who tells people she’s “not using her degree” may be demeaning the very job that she has in her home. She’s basically saying that it’s wasted when she tells people she doesn’t use it. Unless she fails to ever help her child with homework or balance the family budget, she uses her education.

I use my education as a SAHM. I homeschool my children, so there’s that aspect of why people don’t accuse me of wasting it. But really, are only the uneducated “qualified” to care for children and take care of the home? When someone applies for a position as a nanny or day-care worker, is having a college degree a negative thing? How about preparing a nutritious meal for the family? Is a SAHM un-qualified to cook a nutritious meal simply because she’s over-qualified to flip burgers at a fast food restaurant? Food preparation involves science. Then there’s the whole science of laundry and stain removal. An Em, you’re an engineer–the engineer SAHM’s I know coach children’s Robotics Clubs and create elaborate train tracks with their budding-engineer-toddlers. By the time those well-nourished, well-cared for children hit formal school years, children do much better when their parents are involved in their education. Seriously, the tasks involved in taking care of children and a home aren’t “no-brainers”–they involve thinking.

Saying college degrees are “not used” by SAHM is almost like saying it’s wasted. And that is how the op phrased it herself–that she never planned to use her degree. In over ten years as a SAHM, no one has ever even implied that I don’t my education. Maybe that’s because I never give the impression to others that I am not using my education. (It’s either that, or I’m too ditzy to catch onto their subtle insults. )

 

[shannyk]

What about the whole Catholic idea of a person being educated just because they are a person? That whole idea is lost I think. You don’t have to justify getting an education and pursuing interests by getting a job that pays you for it.

 

[kristacecilia]

I never said you came from money. I said you benefited from white privilege (to some extent), which doesn’t necessarily have to do with money. That much is true, whether you admit it or not. Canada has it’s own sordid history of racial discrimination, just like the good ole’ US of A.

Canada has a military?..just kidding! Yes, the US Military is technically equal opportunity. Although you’ll find that people of lower socioeconomic status are disproportionately represented in the non-officer ranks. (That includes poor white people as well) You basically have to sign your life away to them for 6 years if you want to receive college tuition assistance. When I got a call from an Army recruiter my senior year of high school I asked him flat-out: “Would I definitely end up in Iraq or Afghanistan?” He paused for a few moments and said: “Yeah.” Also, not everybody is accepted into the military. (Health issues, etc.)

Well, first of all, I am American and only moved to Canada as an adult (I married a Canadian). I realize that is not obvious, but my family served the US military. Not all were officers. One of my family members was enlisted and did VERY well and is widely respected.

They served overseas and fought in wars, too… both my grandfathers went to Vietnam and left families behind. I have a member of my immediate family serving in Iraq right now. They all ‘signed their life away’ for well beyond 6 years. They did it because it provided a stable income for their family, good benefits, and the ability to save for retirement and their children’s education.

EVERYONE sacrifices. My family is an enormous blessing to me, but no one handed us anything on a silver platter.

My family was willing to sacrifice, work hard, and even put their lives on the line. I have family members suffering PTSD and with long term health repercussions from serving overseas during wartime. How dare you even imply that we had it easy because you assume you know our racial background.

 

[sharmin]

The idea that a SAHM “wastes” her degree is silly.

First, if a mom values education, so will her kids. My bf’s mom is a former attorney, stayed at home when she had her second kid, but she passed those values on to both her kids. As such, bf is not only wicked smart, he works very hard in school and it pays off. Not only that, but she also exposes both of them (present tense, because sister is much younger) to culture on a regular basis. My bf grew up seeing plays and going to museums.

Second, if something happens to her husband, a woman needs something to fall back on. Sure, a uni degree may be years old, but it’s still a degree. That’s the difference between maybe taking a few computer classes and having to start from scratch. Extreme example but one of the women who broke away from the polygamous groups in Utah had a lot more success breaking out AND staying out-with eight children, one who was a preemie and the other who was disabled-because she had a college degree and everything that came with it.

Third, can we all stop dissing women’s family decisions? Not every working mom is some horrible woman who hates her kids. Some women do some really valuable work (doctors, teachers, lawyers, etc) and actually have better family lives. Likewise, some SAHMs do better. It’s all about what’s best for YOUR family.

What a great post!

 

[Nick_89]

Well, first of all, I am American and only moved to Canada as an adult (I married a Canadian). I realize that is not obvious, but my family served the US military. Not all were officers. One of my family members was enlisted and did VERY well and is widely respected.

They served overseas and fought in wars, too… both my grandfathers went to Vietnam and left families behind. I have a member of my immediate family serving in Iraq right now. They all ‘signed their life away’ for well beyond 6 years. They did it because it provided a stable income for their family, good benefits, and the ability to save for retirement and their children’s education.

EVERYONE sacrifices. My family is an enormous blessing to me, but no one handed us anything on a silver platter.

My family was willing to sacrifice, work hard, and even put their lives on the line. I have family members suffering PTSD and with long term health repercussions from serving overseas during wartime. How dare you even imply that we had it easy because you assume you know our racial background.

It sounds like you have a good family. I have the utmost respect for those who serve in the military. They do an excellent job protecting this country.

My point was not that your family had it “easy”. They obviously didn’t. However, would you agree that they would have had it much, much harder if they weren’t white?

 

[mini_me640]

It sounds like you have a good family. I have the utmost respect for those who serve in the military. They do an excellent job protecting this country.

My point was not that your family had it “easy”. They obviously didn’t. However, would you agree that they would have had it much, much harder if they weren’t white?

First of all, how did this turn into a racial thread?

I have a girlfriend who is Peruvian, raised in the U.S. who put herself through college (much as I did, working full time while going to school at night) who is now a SAHM. I grew up in an area full of Mexican migrant farm workers - my high school was over half Mexican (I am white BTW). Many of their children worked their way through college; some of the ladies I’m still friends with many years later are now SAHMs, some aren’t. This really isn’t a racial issue… People of all races and backgrounds can put themselves through school if they are willing to work all day and study at night. Many of my friends have worked multiple jobs while going to school but have emerged with a B.A. and no student loans! College doesn’t have to be a full time job that you go to straight from high school before you enter the workforce…

 

[kristacecilia]

First of all, how did this turn into a racial thread?

I have a girlfriend who is Peruvian, raised in the U.S. who put herself through college (much as I did, working full time while going to school at night) who is now a SAHM. I grew up in an area full of Mexican migrant farm workers - my high school was over half Mexican (I am white BTW). Many of their children worked their way through college; some of the ladies I’m still friends with many years later are now SAHMs, some aren’t. This really isn’t a racial issue… People of all races and backgrounds can put themselves through school if they are willing to work all day and studay at night. College doesn’t have to be a full time job that you go to straight from high school before you enter the workforce…

Thank you.

I have many friends who are not white who have university degrees with no or little debt and are now SAHM.

Race has nothing to do with it.

 

[silentstar]

I agree that there is such a thing as white privilege but I think it’s the topic for another thread, maybe in social justice. Maybe Nick would want to start a thread?

Basically, my belief is knowledge for knowledge’s sake and anyone should be able to get a degree assuming they were accepted legally, can do the work and pay for it. The problem is how competitive the “best” schools are. The Ivy League schools promote a myth (and I think it really is a myth) that they take the “best and brightest” and those who don’t make the cut are “less.” The reality is they do admit highly gifted students but many of us who don’t make it would have done equally well. They end up making sometimes arbitrary, sometimes even sordid decisions about who to accept and it often comes down to who lends most prestige to the school.

My belief is that people who are accepted to highly competitive schools almost always deserve to be there - with some legacy admissions and the children of some celebrities (who are admitted based on fame and nothing else) or children of donors to the school being an exception. But many of us who are not admitted would have done well there if given the chance. The schools are not honest about this and I think that does breed resentment and maybe an attitude towards SAHMs: well if you are the best and brightest then you should be using that degree. I don’t think that’s a fair attitude but I do think people assume things given how schools like Harvard, for example, stress that they are educating the elite. And most SAHMs won’t go to Harvard of course, but schools in general are becoming a lot more competitive than they were when I was in school in the 80s.

My problem is not with SAHMs it is with students who are at competitive schools and very obviously not taking their education seriously: getting drunk during the week and on the weekend instead of studying, doing the minimum in class, text messaging in class, and sometimes cheating, and having a sense of entitlement. When I was in school people did some of this (I avoided it like I think many/most people did) but now it seems to be a lot worse, from what I hear from professors. Students think they deserve good grades just for showing up. That may relate to the high cost of education, that they think they have paid for the grades and should get them without working. Unfortunately, students who work hard are not as common as they used to be.

So if a SAHM is the type who valued her education, that’s a good thing.

 

[karow]

I get really tired of it when families decide that both parents are going to work outside the home, and the wife gets the flak for it.

You have a valid observation here, EasterJoy. When I was pregnant I got the question, “How long are you going to stay home?” frequently and from a lot of people. My husband, not so much.

Along the same lines, although slightly off topic, my husband is going back to Malaysia this summer for a couple of months. He’s gotten no flak for going. When I went to Thailand three years ago for a month, you would have thought I was planning to abandon my kids along side the road the way people reacted.

 

[Nick_89]

Thank you.

I have many friends who are not white who have university degrees with no or little debt and are now SAHM.

Race has nothing to do with it.

As if they’d tell you if they were drowning in debt. I’m not saying they are, but I doubt they’d be forthcoming with that information.

I was just waiting for you to make the typical “I have non-white friends who are just like me” argument. Unless your friends are Asian (Oriental), then they are the exception…not the rule.

This will be my last post in this thread. Like somebody said though, this thread has gotten way off topic. That was mostly my fault. I apologize.

 

[silentstar]

As if they’d tell you if they were drowning in debt. I’m not saying they are, but I doubt they’d be forthcoming with that information.

I was just waiting for you to make the typical “I have non-white friends who are just like me” argument. Unless your friends are Asian (Oriental), then they are the exception…not the rule.

This will be my last post in this thread. Like somebody said though, this thread has gotten way off topic. That was mostly my fault. I apologize.

You can start a new thread in social justice if you want to. I’d actually be interested in following it assuming people remain civil.

back to topic: my sister who has both bachelor’s and master’s in computer science has been home with her kids since 2002 and I don’t think she’s ever gotten much criticism or questions about it, and she lives in the exurbs, but it’s the outer DC area where people can be competitive. I guess it depends on the community you are in. She says the mothers in her neighborhood tend to get along.

 

[faithfully]

GOOD LORD…

I haven’t read all the posts… But all I have to say is… If it weren’t for all the heavily degreed SAHM’s at our public school the doors would shut. When we run a fundraiser, it’s like opening day on wall street. We rake in the cash…not just any ol’ high school grad could do that… LOL!