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YoungCatholicGuy
Guest
I would love to message some pentecostals or charismatics about their understanding of charisms in the modern church 
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ltwin
Guest
Classical Pentecostal here. What do you want to know?
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YoungCatholicGuy
Guest
Hi!
Well my question is:
Have you or your church had experience of the charisms, and what ones in particular?
The bible says: ‘Believers will do the same works that I do, and greater, because I go to the Father.’
‘Believers will speak in other tongues, they will cast out demons, they will lay their hands on the sick and the sick will get better. Thet will drink poison and go unharmed.’
‘How I long to be with you that I may impart some spiritual gift to you. Seek the higher gifts. I wish you all spoke in tongues, but pray that you may interpret tongues.’
‘Pray for the gift of prophecy, for the one who prophecies edifies the church.’
‘If you who are evil know how to give good things to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask.’
Also: the power of faith;
‘When Jesus was in Jerusalem, he could only heal a few sick people, but could do no mighty miracle, because of their lack of faith.’
‘I tell you if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you could say to that mountain, be cast into the sea, and it would go.’
‘And Peter, seeing that the cripple had faith to be healed, said to him; ‘Pick up your pallet and walk.’
‘And Jesus perceiving that some power had gone out of Him, said; ‘who touched me?’ And when thet had found the woman Jesus said to her; ‘Go in peace. Your Faith has gained this miracle.’
My other question is:
The only thing blocking christians today, in doing the works of Jesus through the charisms, is lack of faith?
The bible seems to say that all christians should be using the charisms to do Jesus miracles?
Well my question is:
Have you or your church had experience of the charisms, and what ones in particular?
The bible says: ‘Believers will do the same works that I do, and greater, because I go to the Father.’
‘Believers will speak in other tongues, they will cast out demons, they will lay their hands on the sick and the sick will get better. Thet will drink poison and go unharmed.’
‘How I long to be with you that I may impart some spiritual gift to you. Seek the higher gifts. I wish you all spoke in tongues, but pray that you may interpret tongues.’
‘Pray for the gift of prophecy, for the one who prophecies edifies the church.’
‘If you who are evil know how to give good things to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask.’
Also: the power of faith;
‘When Jesus was in Jerusalem, he could only heal a few sick people, but could do no mighty miracle, because of their lack of faith.’
‘I tell you if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you could say to that mountain, be cast into the sea, and it would go.’
‘And Peter, seeing that the cripple had faith to be healed, said to him; ‘Pick up your pallet and walk.’
‘And Jesus perceiving that some power had gone out of Him, said; ‘who touched me?’ And when thet had found the woman Jesus said to her; ‘Go in peace. Your Faith has gained this miracle.’
My other question is:
The only thing blocking christians today, in doing the works of Jesus through the charisms, is lack of faith?
The bible seems to say that all christians should be using the charisms to do Jesus miracles?
I don’t like to be labelled “charismatic” , but I have been involved in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal .I would love to message some pentecostals or charismatics about their understanding of charisms in the modern church
The greatest thing I experienced from the Catholic Charismatic Renewal was that God through it kept me part of the Church when I was going through a rebellious episode .
I like this video because it explains to me and others how the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is authentic , Catholic and supported by the Magisterium .
Of course there are abuses , but there are abuses in all spiritualities found in the Church . The Devil doesn’t like us to be enthusiastic about our faith in God .
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ltwin
Guest
I’ve seen the gifts of tongues, interpretation of tongues, words of wisdom,words of knowledge, faith, healing, prophecy, discernment of spirits, serving, teaching, exhortation, giving, leadership, mercy.
Well, lack of faith could be an issue. I assume you are a Christian in the West, as am I. Most of us have been educated to have a rationalistic view of the world. There is nothing wrong with that, but many Christians reject anything that might even hint at the supernatural as weird, backward, ignorant superstition. Many Christians want a rational faith, but biblical Christianity does not fit neatly into that box.
The other issue that is often overlooked is need. Many people in the modern world have convinced themselves that they don’t need God. Even Christians can fall into the trap of trusting in medicine, the modern welfare state, technology, etc. more than they trust in God. Because we have convinced ourselves that mankind has all the answers, we have no need to depend upon the Holy Spirit. We have no need to believe in miracles because some of us have convinced ourselves that mankind is able to replace God with whatever–science, money, etc.
The Bible says that every member of the body will have a charism. It does not say that all Christians will move in all the charisms. And not every spiritual gift is what most people would see as “miraculous” or “extraordinary”. Someone gifted in mercy is just as gifted as someone who prophesies.
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guanophore
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If you have researched threads on CAF about these matters, you will certainly have encountered a significant “lack of faith” in certain members of the community. However, I think it really has more to do with a lack of catechesis. The Church Teaching is very clear about the charisms, but it is almost as though the faithful have been given gifts and never unwrapped them. They do not know how to put their charisms to work for the Body.
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YoungCatholicGuy
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Excellent explanation.
You should read ‘The Miracle Ship’ by Brian O’ Hare, or ‘Miracles Never Ending’ by Bob Canton, (both catholic christians with all the charisms of the Holy Spirit, active in their ministries) both books are on amazon.com available as paperback or downloadable onto the Kindle app,
I have a question about St Paul’s writing in the New Testament; ‘Seek the higher spiritual gifts. I desire to be with you that I may impart some spiritual gifts to you. Desire prophecy. And do not forbid anyone to pray in tongues, but pray also that you may interpret tongues. Pray for the gift of prophecy, for one who prays in tongues edifies himself, but one who prophecies edifies the church.’
And if we also add Jesus own biblical words; ‘If you have faith the size of a tiny seed, you can command a mountain to jump into the sea, and it will.’
‘Peter looking at the cripple, seeing that he had FAITH to be healed, said to him: ‘Pick up your pallet and walk.’
‘Jesus, perceiving that some power had gone out of Him, said, ‘Who touched Me?’ And when they had found the woman He said to her, ‘Your FAITH has receiced this miracle for you and made you well.’
‘These signs will accompany believers, they will cure sick, cast out demons, speak in other tongues, they will prophecy.’ ‘Believers will do the same works that I do and greater, because I go to the Father.’
Sorry for requoting some quotes,
I do believe everyone has their own gifts and strengths from God yes And that as Saint Paul says; the greatest gift is love, for without love we cannot enter Heaven no matter what great deeds have been done otherwise, Jesus Himself said so, ‘Many will say Lord Lord did we not heal the sick in your Name, cast out demons, prophecy in your Name, and not enter My Kingdom.’
But Saint Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, backed up by Jesus own words also, says that we can pray to God for specific charisms and receive them? Saint Paul mentions asking for specific charisms, and tells us to seek the higher spiritual gifts? He tells us to ask God for charisms by Name, ?
You should read ‘The Miracle Ship’ by Brian O’ Hare, or ‘Miracles Never Ending’ by Bob Canton, (both catholic christians with all the charisms of the Holy Spirit, active in their ministries) both books are on amazon.com available as paperback or downloadable onto the Kindle app,
I have a question about St Paul’s writing in the New Testament; ‘Seek the higher spiritual gifts. I desire to be with you that I may impart some spiritual gifts to you. Desire prophecy. And do not forbid anyone to pray in tongues, but pray also that you may interpret tongues. Pray for the gift of prophecy, for one who prays in tongues edifies himself, but one who prophecies edifies the church.’
And if we also add Jesus own biblical words; ‘If you have faith the size of a tiny seed, you can command a mountain to jump into the sea, and it will.’
‘Peter looking at the cripple, seeing that he had FAITH to be healed, said to him: ‘Pick up your pallet and walk.’
‘Jesus, perceiving that some power had gone out of Him, said, ‘Who touched Me?’ And when they had found the woman He said to her, ‘Your FAITH has receiced this miracle for you and made you well.’
‘These signs will accompany believers, they will cure sick, cast out demons, speak in other tongues, they will prophecy.’ ‘Believers will do the same works that I do and greater, because I go to the Father.’
Sorry for requoting some quotes,
I do believe everyone has their own gifts and strengths from God yes
And that as Saint Paul says; the greatest gift is love, for without love we cannot enter Heaven no matter what great deeds have been done otherwise, Jesus Himself said so, ‘Many will say Lord Lord did we not heal the sick in your Name, cast out demons, prophecy in your Name, and not enter My Kingdom.’But Saint Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, backed up by Jesus own words also, says that we can pray to God for specific charisms and receive them? Saint Paul mentions asking for specific charisms, and tells us to seek the higher spiritual gifts? He tells us to ask God for charisms by Name, ?
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drac16
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I’m a charismatic. I have the gift of tongues, though I only pray in tongues when I’m alone. For me, it’s a personal prayer language. It’s basically a 911 call to Heaven.
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YoungCatholicGuy
Guest
Hopefully you can answer my question
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guanophore
Guest
We can, and should. But most of all we should pray that the Holy Spirit be made manifest in our lives most fully according to His will. When we were sealed in Baptism, the potential for any and all the gifts was sealed within us also. Confirmation was designed to create and adult initiation of sorts, into the faith, so that the individual takes responsibility for learning and using their own gifts of the HS. Unfortunately, confirmation programs teach about the character gifts of the HS but not the charismatic gifts. For that reason, most Catholics never unwrap and learn how to use the gifts that were given to them.
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YoungCatholicGuy
Guest
Are there any recommended books, websites or youtube videos that explain how to live a chrismatic christian life in the modern day?
There are catholic charismatic resources on the above
There are catholic charismatic resources on the above
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guanophore
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Most of what is on YouTube with regard to this is garbage, but there are good books and talks. You can also look for a prayer group in your area or attend a conference.
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Reuben_J
Guest
You can’t live by the books. They would help you but you have to live an authentic Christian life by the power of the Holy Spirit. For that you have to live in an authentic Christian environment, which you will unlikely to find today as we are very much influenced by the world and secularism.
Thus you have to find one or create one. The practical thing to do would be to look for a prayer group in your parish where they can teach you or introduce you to a committed Christian life.
Basically it is to live under the Lordship of Jesus. We say Jesus is our Lord many times in prayers and in the mass, but is Jesus really our a Lord in our lives? Is he the center in our life? Is he the number one?
Secondly, you have to be ‘baptised in the Holy Spirit’ or to release the Holy Spirit that is within you. You must need the Holy Spirit power to change - just like the disciples being changed after they received the Holy Spirit. You need that power to live a new life that is being led by the Holy Spirit.
That, in a nutshell, is how to live the spirituality of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. It is something to be experienced, not just words or theory. You need to journey together with brothers and sisters who also aspire to do the same. It is not to be lived alone. That’s why the early Christians left everything behind to come together to find comfort, encouragement and growth in the faith.
God bless.
Thus you have to find one or create one. The practical thing to do would be to look for a prayer group in your parish where they can teach you or introduce you to a committed Christian life.
Basically it is to live under the Lordship of Jesus. We say Jesus is our Lord many times in prayers and in the mass, but is Jesus really our a Lord in our lives? Is he the center in our life? Is he the number one?
Secondly, you have to be ‘baptised in the Holy Spirit’ or to release the Holy Spirit that is within you. You must need the Holy Spirit power to change - just like the disciples being changed after they received the Holy Spirit. You need that power to live a new life that is being led by the Holy Spirit.
That, in a nutshell, is how to live the spirituality of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. It is something to be experienced, not just words or theory. You need to journey together with brothers and sisters who also aspire to do the same. It is not to be lived alone. That’s why the early Christians left everything behind to come together to find comfort, encouragement and growth in the faith.
God bless.
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Wannano
Guest
Sometimes something like this is written and simply astounds me. What you presented is totally in line with my non-Catholic understanding of how to live a Christian life.
Would you agree that in a nutshell , it is not only how to live the spirituality of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, but also how to live a truly fulfilled Christian life aside from denominationalism?
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YoungCatholicGuy
Guest
Yes.
The new christian church after Pentecost is described as:
‘And they were ALL baptised in the Holy Spirt and ALL spoke in tongues and ALL prophecied glorifying God.’
Saint Peter even prophecied to the Jews after Pentecost; ‘Isaiah wrote in scripture; behold I am pouring out My Spirit as not has been seen since the Creation of the World, your young men will dream dreams and your young men will prophecy.’
Jesus promised in scripture:
‘These are the signs that WILL accompany believers: they will speak in other tongues, they will prophecy, they will heal the sick, they will cast out demons.’
‘Amen I tell you, believers will do the same works that I do, and will in fact do greater works than Me, because I go to My Father, and will send you the Holy Spirit.’
Scripture also says:
‘These are the gifts of the Holy Spirit: word of knowledge, word of wisdom, tongues of angels and of men, healing, miracles, faith, deliverance, discernment of spirits.’
‘Ardently ask God for the higher spiritual gifts. I pray that you all speak in tongues. Pray also that you will prophecy, for he who prophecies edifies the church. If any is sick among you, lay your hands upon them calling upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, and they WILL recover.’
But most importantly:
You must keep the Commandments, and also the greatest commandment: Love God and love your neighbour.
As Jesus and St Paul warn in scripture that there will be those who had the charisms but neither loved God or neighbour or kept the commandments, and will end up in hell,
At the last day complaining; ‘Lord did we not heal the sick in your Name?’
St Paul says the most important gift to use is LOVE.
Then these other extraordinary gifts bear value if God bestows them,
The new christian church after Pentecost is described as:
‘And they were ALL baptised in the Holy Spirt and ALL spoke in tongues and ALL prophecied glorifying God.’
Saint Peter even prophecied to the Jews after Pentecost; ‘Isaiah wrote in scripture; behold I am pouring out My Spirit as not has been seen since the Creation of the World, your young men will dream dreams and your young men will prophecy.’
Jesus promised in scripture:
‘These are the signs that WILL accompany believers: they will speak in other tongues, they will prophecy, they will heal the sick, they will cast out demons.’
‘Amen I tell you, believers will do the same works that I do, and will in fact do greater works than Me, because I go to My Father, and will send you the Holy Spirit.’
Scripture also says:
‘These are the gifts of the Holy Spirit: word of knowledge, word of wisdom, tongues of angels and of men, healing, miracles, faith, deliverance, discernment of spirits.’
‘Ardently ask God for the higher spiritual gifts. I pray that you all speak in tongues. Pray also that you will prophecy, for he who prophecies edifies the church. If any is sick among you, lay your hands upon them calling upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, and they WILL recover.’
But most importantly:
You must keep the Commandments, and also the greatest commandment: Love God and love your neighbour.
As Jesus and St Paul warn in scripture that there will be those who had the charisms but neither loved God or neighbour or kept the commandments, and will end up in hell,
At the last day complaining; ‘Lord did we not heal the sick in your Name?’
St Paul says the most important gift to use is LOVE.
Then these other extraordinary gifts bear value if God bestows them,
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Reuben_J
Guest
I do not like to speak much on this topic in CAF because it often regresses into the Charismatic gift of tongue and that Catholic Charismatics got their spirituality from Protestants.
I cannot speak for Protestant denominations because we are Catholics. I can only say that when we are on the same ground, well and fine, and when we differ in some aspects of the doctrines, then that’s when we believe differently.
As for your question, yes. This is the root core of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal – the renewal of their Catholic faith and practice, which should be a fulfilled Christian life.
But what we see is that there are many baptized Catholics who live a life that does not make any difference to them. So we ask, where is their grace of Baptism that they received that should make them new transformed people by the power of the Holy Spirit?
Why are their lives being bogged by habitual sins which they cannot overcome; being defeated in sorrows and problems?
So that’s where the Charismatic Renewal plays its part – to allow those Catholic to experience the fullness of their faith by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Of course, there is so much more as to how and what it entails.
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Reuben_J
Guest
About the Charismatic gifts, we often remind people that while ‘all these are the work of one and the same Spirit, he distributes them to each one, just as he determines’. 1 Cor 12:11
They are as the Spirit gives so that they are not something that we can decide our own. What is important is that the Holy Spirit upbuilds oneself and the body of the believers.
They are as the Spirit gives so that they are not something that we can decide our own. What is important is that the Holy Spirit upbuilds oneself and the body of the believers.
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Wannano
Guest
Reuben, how do you interpret 1Cor. 12 verses 5 and 6?
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Reuben_J
Guest
I would see them as how the gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be used - for their purpose, which is to serve the body of Christ.
For this reason, the Charismatic gifts (except for tongue, which can be used to edify oneself) are meant to be used to serve. The gifts are given rather than being asked.
This is to prevent pride and do thing for our own glory rather than for God’s people.
There are different kinds of gifts because there are different kinds of services, as mentioned by Paul in Rom 12 – we are parts of one body, and each is important and therefore serve in a role according to the gift that each has.
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Wannano
Guest
I wonder if you looked at the right verses. Verse 5 says there are differences of administration’s but the same Lord…verse 6 says there are diversities of operations but it is the same God which worketh in all. Is that what you were responding to?Wannano:
I would see them as how the gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be used - for their purpose, which is to serve the body of Christ.
For this reason, the Charismatic gifts (except for tongue, which can be used to edify oneself) are meant to be used to serve. The gifts are given rather than being asked.
This is to prevent pride and do thing for our own glory rather than for God’s people.
There are different kinds of gifts because there are different kinds of services, as mentioned by Paul in Rom 12 – we are parts of one body, and each is important and therefore serve in a role according to the gift that each has.
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