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PJM
Guest
NO
ONLY informed practicing Catholics in the State of Godās grace.
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twf
Guest
The OP is Orthodox. Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians are permitted to receive- assuming they have confessed any serious sin (āmortal sinā is Latin terminology foreign to the East) and are not violating the directions of their own priest/bishop.NO
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trevorhall
Guest
No.
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Vico
Guest
Yes, under specific conditions:CIC (Latin Catholic) Canon 844
Code:
1. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments to Catholic members of the Christian faithful only and, likewise, the latter may licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers with due regard for parts 2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and c.861, part 2.
2. Whenever necessity requires or genuine spiritual advantage suggests, and provided (dummodo) that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is lawful for the faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid.
3. Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned.
4. If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed.
5. For the cases in parts 2, 3, and 4, neither the diocesan bishop nor the conference of bishops is to enact general norms except after consultation with at least the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.- Catholic ministers licitly administer the sacraments only to Catholic Christian faithful, who, likewise, licitly receive the sacraments only from Catholic ministers.
- If necessity requires it or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it and provided that the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is permitted for Catholic Christian faithful, for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers, in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.
- Likewise Catholic ministers licitly administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to Christian faithful of Eastern Churches, who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask for them on their own and are properly disposed. This holds also for the Christian faithful of other Churches, who according to the judgment of the Apostolic See, are in the same condition as the Eastern Churches as far as the sacraments are concerned.
- If there is a danger of death or another matter of serious necessity in the judgment of the eparchial bishop, the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church or the council of hierarchs, Catholic ministers licitly administer the same sacraments also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach the ministers of their own ecclesial communities and who request them on their own, provided they manifest a faith consonant with that of the Catholic Church concerning these sacraments and are rightly disposed.
- For the cases in 2, 3 and 4, norms of particular law are to be enacted only after consultation with at least the local competent authority of the non-Catholic Church or ecclesial community concerned.
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FrDavid96
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What we also have to keep in mind is the right application of those canons.
From Redemptionis Sacramentum
[85.] Catholic ministers licitly administer the Sacraments only to the Catholic faithful, who likewise receive them licitly only from Catholic ministers, except for those situations for which provision is made in can. 844 Ā§Ā§ 2,3, and 4, and can. 861 Ā§ 2. In addition, the conditions comprising can. 844 Ā§ 4, from which no dispensation can be given, cannot be separated; thus, it is necessary that all of these conditions be present together.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VIII
2 points:
The faithful observance of the body of norms established in this area is a manifestation and, at the same time, a guarantee of our love for Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, for our brothers and sisters of different Christian confessions ā who have a right to our witness to the truth ā and for the cause itself of the promotion of unity.
vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_20030417_ecclesia_eucharistia_en.html
This is even more specific.
In order to be properly disposed, one must believe in the ā[necessity] of the ministerial priesthood for their validity.ā
To me, that seems to render it nearly impossible for a Catholic priest to administer Communion to non-Catholics (Orthodox excepted). One would have to accept that the Eucharist only happens when a Catholic (or Orthodox) priest consecrates, and that raises the standard so high, that I can hardly imagine it ever happening.
It seems to me that (almost) the only time this could happen would be if the person is ready to become Catholic. If Iām ever in that position, I would probably be receiving someone into the Church (in a danger-of-death situation), and administer the Sacraments to a new Catholic rather than to a dying non-Catholic.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter VIII
2 points:
- No dispensation can be given from these pre-requisite conditions.
- All of those conditions must be present together. I often read on CAF that ādanger of deathā is sufficient for this to happen. Not so. Unless all of the conditions are met, this cannot happen.
- In my Encyclical Ut Unum Sint I expressed my own appreciation of these norms, which make it possible to provide for the salvation of souls with proper discernment: āIt is a source of joy to note that Catholic ministers are able, in certain particular cases, to administer the sacraments of the Eucharist, Penance and Anointing of the Sick to Christians who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church but who greatly desire to receive these sacraments, freely request them and manifest the faith which the Catholic Church professes with regard to these sacraments. Conversely, in specific cases and in particular circumstances, Catholics too can request these same sacraments from ministers of Churches in which these sacraments are validā.
The faithful observance of the body of norms established in this area is a manifestation and, at the same time, a guarantee of our love for Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, for our brothers and sisters of different Christian confessions ā who have a right to our witness to the truth ā and for the cause itself of the promotion of unity.
vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_20030417_ecclesia_eucharistia_en.html
This is even more specific.
In order to be properly disposed, one must believe in the ā[necessity] of the ministerial priesthood for their validity.ā
To me, that seems to render it nearly impossible for a Catholic priest to administer Communion to non-Catholics (Orthodox excepted). One would have to accept that the Eucharist only happens when a Catholic (or Orthodox) priest consecrates, and that raises the standard so high, that I can hardly imagine it ever happening.
It seems to me that (almost) the only time this could happen would be if the person is ready to become Catholic. If Iām ever in that position, I would probably be receiving someone into the Church (in a danger-of-death situation), and administer the Sacraments to a new Catholic rather than to a dying non-Catholic.
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freshwind
Guest
Our priest celebrates the OF, in a reverent and holy way.
He has introduced some latin singing, as well as chants since coming to our parish .
He often quotes form JPII, BXVI and Francis ā¦ his homilies teach and espouse traditional Catholic belief.
He is not afraid to speak of sin, and calls a spade a spade.
I would prefer to say seek a holy priest, we have them in both forms of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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PJM
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Thank you Father:thumbsup:
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liturgyluver
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I know of at least one exception to this, namely in France where in 1983 an agreement was reached between the French Roman Catholic Bishops and the Anglican Church (and agreed by the Vatican) that allows Anglicans who cannot reach a church within reasonable travelling distance to receive the sacrament exceptionally in a Catholic Church.
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Brendan_64
Guest
This is not simply a matter of an individual priest and his personal error, this involves the Holy Eucharist, the Body of Christ.I thought it sounded weird. He is a priest of 30 some years and said that the Pope has made it clear that anyone who believes that Jesus is God can commune at a Catholic Church. What does one do? Avoid this parish? That leaves me with zero optionsā¦
If I was in your shoes I would bring this to the priestās attention, quoting Canon 844 (as mentioned above) vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2T.HTM . This is also reiterated in Redemptionis Sacramentum 85 vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
If he persists I would send him a letter expressing my concerns again and again quoting Canon 844. If, after this he still persists, then I would certainly lodge a formal complaint with his bishop, but before doing this I would tell him that I was going to do it, before writing the complaint letter. It isnāt charitable to go behind someoneās back when complaining about him. As a lay-person you have the right, under Church law, to demand that the sacraments be carried out according to the norms and laws of the Church (I think thatās also in Redemptionis Sacramentum somewhere)ā¦
As a Catholic he is bound by Canon Law, as are all baptised Catholics (laity, priests, bishops alike).
Personally as it involves the Holy Eucharist, I wouldnāt want to let that one slip.
Iāve just now seen Father Davidās reply to this, which gives you the answer in much more detail.
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retire_early
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Stavros: the priest in question sounds like he might be up in yearsā¦60+ or 70-something? Maybe older? Are you sure he heard and understood your question correctly? So many people up in years fail to get hearing aids when needed. Maybe he thought you were asking if anyone could come to the Mass, to be in ācommunionā, so to speak, by worshiping together.
Why donāt you visit with him (not on Sunday around Mass times, but during the week, when you can have a longer talk) and explain your understanding that you received on this website?
I wonder if this is just a communication problem? Maybe it can be cleared up pretty quickly!
Iām so glad you enjoyed attending the Catholic Mass.
Why donāt you visit with him (not on Sunday around Mass times, but during the week, when you can have a longer talk) and explain your understanding that you received on this website?
I wonder if this is just a communication problem? Maybe it can be cleared up pretty quickly!
Iām so glad you enjoyed attending the Catholic Mass.
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PJM
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VERY niceky done Brenda, Tahnk you:thumbsup:
Partrick
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stavros388
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You know, I have wondered if miscommunication may be at the heart of this confusion. I am pretty sure he meant what I thought he meantā¦ but he is Indian and has a bit of an accent. I think perhaps I will just ask him politely again some time.
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otjm
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Except under very limited ones, and i am not sure that the pastor has the authority to grant permission under those limited circumstances, except possible fairly imminent danger of death.
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stavros388
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Update: He did mean what he said, as he gave a sermon last week all about how he has told people of other Christian faiths (some kind of Protestants, in this case) that if their intention is good, they may commune and he wonāt ask any questions. I kind of like this idea of inclusiveness in a sense, I suppose, but it seems erroneous to me that correct doctrine is not being upheld. If anyone can commune regardless of belief and preparedness, the whole thing kind of loses a proper sense of gravity and rigor, in my opinion.
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stavros388
Guest
Were this an Orthodox priest in an Orthodox parish, I would likely go the route youāve suggested here. Because I am a visitor from another tradition, however, I do not wish to be the newcomer who comes and rocks the boat! I would be rather surprised, though, if none of the regular parishioners approach him on this matter. People are pretty laid back in these parts, so maybe it has been this way for a long time. Oh well. I still very much enjoy worshiping there and have grown rather fond of the Catholic services and many of the parishioners, but I think I will remain Orthodox as far as partaking of the Eucharist goes (and by this I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Catholics).
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