Any Protestant historians fair to the CC?

[Contarini]

PANTHER AND HIND is a good book. But I think you probably are thinking of QUEST FOR CATHOLICITY. I haven’t seen it but I just finished reading an extensive review of it, and it sounds a lot like your comments on the subject. I suspect you cited the correct title.

It (as far as one can tell from the review) is not something I haven’t read before; treating “intention” as crucial, and assuming sacramental intent is determinable broadly by determinatio ex adiunctis. What strikes me as odd is the contradiction that seems to exist between this book and his REVIEW OF ANGLICAN ORDERS, from about 25 years later, in which he is far less dogmatic on the definitive nature of* Apostolciae Curae*. One would need to read the two together, and I would like to.

GKC

Interesting point. I wasn’t primarily concerned with the Anglican Orders issue when I read *Quest. *I found it a helpful discussion of the 17th and 18th-century “Anglo-Catholics”–the non-jurors, etc. But again, it’s hard for me to remember which bit of information or interpretation I read in Tavard and which I read in Nichols.

 

[waxwing]

Just starting reading Mark Noll, book called Turning Points, anyways so far so good. From what I can tell he seems to be a well respected Protestant, but is a Prof at UND. So maybe fair minded.

 

[Contarini]

Just starting reading Mark Noll, book called Turning Points, anyways so far so good. From what I can tell he seems to be a well respected Protestant, but is a Prof at UND. So maybe fair minded.

I meant to mention that one too but forgot.

Noll is very upfront about his bias, and I like that. It isn’t a book that I’d strongly recommend outside evangelical Protestant circles, but yes, he certainly makes an effort to be fair. The bias is seen largely in how he selects his “turning points,” and there’s nothing wrong with that (they are often moments that are important for the story of the branch of Christianity to which he belongs).

Noll is a splendid scholar who has no fear of telling evangelicals uncomfortable truths. His book America’s God describes how the literalistic, sola-scriptura view of the Bible held by 19th-century American Protestants failed to help them deal adequately with slavery.

He co-authored a book called “Is the Reformation Over,” which takes a pretty fair and sympathetic look at Protestants who convert to Catholicism, among other things.

It is probably a coincidence that Noll left Wheaton for ND shortly after Wheaton fired a professor for becoming Catholic. But I’ve heard Noll admit in front of Litfin (the then-president of Wheaton who fired the Catholic professor) that he, Noll, disagreed with Litfin’s ideas about the identity of an evangelical college.

Edwin

Edwin

 

[sistermouse]

I think that a good Protestant historian fair to the Catholic Church would become Catholic and would no longer qualify as a good Protestant historian!!

mouse

I’m really sorry if I have offended anyone. That was not my intention…I was just in a playful mood and commented when I should have kept quiet. Please accept my apology.

mouse

 

[Contarini]

I’m really sorry if I have offended anyone. That was not my intention…I was just in a playful mood and commented when I should have kept quiet. Please accept my apology.

mouse

I wish people on these forums would worry less about offending people and more about truth.

I found your statement objectionable not because it was “offensive” to my feelings, but because it was disconnected from reality.

I don’t need you to apologize to me or other Protestants. I need you to become more aware of the excellent church history being produced by Protestant scholars, so that you won’t make such ill-informed remarks in the future.

Edwin

 

[waxwing]

I meant to mention that one too but forgot.

Noll is very upfront about his bias, and I like that. It isn’t a book that I’d strongly recommend outside evangelical Protestant circles, but yes, he certainly makes an effort to be fair. The bias is seen largely in how he selects his “turning points,” and there’s nothing wrong with that (they are often moments that are important for the story of the branch of Christianity to which he belongs).

Noll is a splendid scholar who has no fear of telling evangelicals uncomfortable truths. His book America’s God describes how the literalistic, sola-scriptura view of the Bible held by 19th-century American Protestants failed to help them deal adequately with slavery.

He co-authored a book called “Is the Reformation Over,” which takes a pretty fair and sympathetic look at Protestants who convert to Catholicism, among other things.

It is probably a coincidence that Noll left Wheaton for ND shortly after Wheaton fired a professor for becoming Catholic. But I’ve heard Noll admit in front of Litfin (the then-president of Wheaton who fired the Catholic professor) that he, Noll, disagreed with Litfin’s ideas about the identity of an evangelical college.

Edwin

Edwin

Thanks for filling me in on Noll. I knew he was at Wheaton and then left for ND, wasn’t aware of the circumstances. Wheaton is one of the more highly regarded Protestant/Evangelical Colleges but am unaware of its position on the Catholic Church, by that I mean in the ecumenical sense. I know Dr Ryken recently left his position as Pastor of a Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia and is now the President there. Not sure about his position on the colleges identity and how this relates to Catholic Professors and/or Students.

 

[Contarini]

Thanks for filling me in on Noll. I knew he was at Wheaton and then left for ND, wasn’t aware of the circumstances. Wheaton is one of the more highly regarded Protestant/Evangelical Colleges but am unaware of its position on the Catholic Church, by that I mean in the ecumenical sense. I know Dr Ryken recently left his position as Pastor of a Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia and is now the President there. Not sure about his position on the colleges identity and how this relates to Catholic Professors and/or Students.

I know that there was some apprehension among the faculty that he would try to impose a more strictly Calvinist version of orthodoxy–he assured them that he wouldn’t and I haven’t heard anything so far to indicate that he’s launched any kind of crackdown.

Noll’s move to ND was a logical career move–he was replacing George Marsden, another eminent evangelical historian of American Christianity.

Edwin