P
Publisher
Guest
I’ve attended Adoration with a good Catholic friend of mine. It was a “gathered experience”…but nothing as moving and profound as I have experience in Meeting…I’m glad you have found a home.
- Status
J
jewells17
Guest
I hope you get a chance to go alone. You can google “adoration chapels” for the area you live in. Alot of them are open 24 hours a day which is a blessing for those who want to go anytime they feel the need. Going alone will make the difference…just be open to the Holy Spirit and let things unfold from within. Another thing you would love…the liturgy of the hours. That is fixed times during the day and night to gather to give voice to that inner song of Gods praise found in every human heart. This is also a powerful experience.
P
Publisher
Guest
It is wonderful you have found a place that “speaks to thy condition” and a Home to point you to the Light Within.
B
brb3
Guest
Publisher …
She knows your experience ! And she knows the Catholic experience is far superior. Take her up on her challenge ! Go to the chapel alone … and spend some quality time with Christ, in the Primitive Church he established.
THEN, come back here and relate your chapel EXPERIENCE to us, not your THEORY of ! Do you doubt that Christ will be found in that Catholic Chapel ?
P
Publisher
Guest
Friend,
That she has found something deeper in the Catholic faith is not an issue…the worship experience among Catholics is wonderful…I have been to “Benediction” several times over the decades…
She knows her experience…she cannot know mine…she does know the Catholic experience, and I rejoice with her in that…
I do spend “quality time with Christ in the Primitive Church he established”…and He has shown Himself to be profoundly in the midst of Friends.
I have no doubt Christ can make Himself know any place…I have sat in a jail cell with Friends doing prison ministry…and The Presence was almost tangible…I’m glad you too have experienced Him in your chosen worship tradition…as I have in mine.
So I can relate to you that He was present in the Catholic worship…but I can also tell you He is Present among the Quaker worship experience…for me…even more profoundly.
B
brb3
Guest
We know where 2 or 3 are gathered … He is There. Nevertheless, He also gave/instituted the Eucharist … telling us to partake of ‘as often as we meet’. Why would you not accept His words/desires for you & friends ?
I propose you honor his words to his own brethren … and become ‘even more’ inspired with His presence. Celebrate the Eucharist … receiving rightly, from those ordained of Christ & those subsequently ordained by they. This is no small matter to triffle about.
P
Publisher
Guest
It’s not “His words” that I do not accept I accept His words…just not what you say they mean…I simply do not share the understanding as you…or your particular man made institution…no matter what it’s claims are about itself…I do not find them compelling enough to cast my lot with a liturgical religious group…no matter the longevity or the claims it makes about itself…Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and a host of others make the same claims of their particular tradition…I find their “story” no more compelling than I do the Catholic church.
I rejoice with you that you find the claims of your tradition compelling…I simply do not.
B
brb3
Guest
I recently learned that the late Herbert W. Armstrong [Worldwide Church of God] began with roots in the Quaker church, … among others.
Look where not having a valid Eucharist got him so ‘off course’. He denied the 3rd Person of the Trinity, and came to believe he was New Elijah returned.
W/0 a valid Eucharist … any church is destined towards corruption, preaching a ‘different Gospel’ & ultimately to failure.
Look where not having a valid Eucharist got him so ‘off course’. He denied the 3rd Person of the Trinity, and came to believe he was New Elijah returned.
W/0 a valid Eucharist … any church is destined towards corruption, preaching a ‘different Gospel’ & ultimately to failure.
P
Publisher
Guest
I believe he may have come out the Adventist movement…he may have some Quaker background…I don’t know off the top of my head.
I’m sure you mean well and have only my best interests at heart…but they are misplaced…but I thank you just the same.
B
brb3
Guest
OK … let Paul speak for himself … now you interpret for us both
Make your explanation compelling enuf … if possible.1 Cor. 11:17-34 //// But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you assemble AS A CHURCH, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are geniune among you may be recognized. WHEN YOU MEET TOGETHER, IS IT NOT THE LORD’S SUPPER THAT YOU EAT. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, one is hungry and another is drunk. What ! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in ? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing ? What shall I say to you ? Shall I commend you in this ? NO, I WILL NOT. FOR I RECEIVED FROM THE LORD WHAT I ALSO DELIVERED TO YOU, that on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “THIS IS MY BODY WHICH IS FOR YOU. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.” In the same way also the cup, AFTER SUPPER, saying, “THIS CUP IS THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD. DO THIS, AS OFTEN AS YOU DRINK IT, IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.” For AS OFTEN AS YOU EAT THIS BREAD AND DRINK THE CUP, YOU PROCLAIM THE LORD’S DEATH UNTIL HE COMES. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of PROFANING THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. … But, if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. … So then, my brethren, when you COME TOGETHER TO EAT, WAIT FOR ONE ANOTHER ---- IF ANYONE IS HUNGRY, LET HIM EAT AT HOME ---- LEST YOU COME TOGETHER TO BE CONDEMNED.
brb3, you do indeed have a point and have made it. However, didn’t the book of revelations speak of the many churches? Perhaps he was speaking of the 22 or 23 suri irius Universal churches. But, he could have just as easily been speaking of ALL Christian churches. So, the only thing left to us all is to have faith. And when you think about it that works. Oh sure in our church we do have the Eucharist and and APostolic succession we gain much from it. But for those not in the Universal Church which is all catholic means. They know Jesus in the ways and traditions they are taught. Who are we to judge them? That honor belongs to another.
B
brb3
Guest
Yes, many churches, and most mentioned were having some degree of difficulty and were not pleasing to Christ. Did Christ teach unity or division ? Most especially that we need to be unified in Him with the Father, thru the H.S. As individuals AND as a Church body. Individually we do this thru personal prayer and meditation. Collectively we do this thru the Church, her Sacraments, public confession, and joint discipleship.
When the H.S. was working mightily within the Early Church, that Pentecostal church in book of Act … that is the unity we need to recapture. The Church that BROKE BREAD as OFTEN as they met, and gave praise to God & Son … thru his Spirit.
P
Publisher
Guest
Friend,OK … let Paul speak for himself … now you interpret for us both
1 Cor. 11:17-34 //// But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you assemble AS A CHURCH, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are geniune among you may be recognized. WHEN YOU MEET TOGETHER, IS IT NOT THE LORD’S SUPPER THAT YOU EAT. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, one is hungry and another is drunk. What ! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in ? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing ? What shall I say to you ? Shall I commend you in this ? NO, I WILL NOT. FOR I RECEIVED FROM THE LORD WHAT I ALSO DELIVERED TO YOU, that on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “THIS IS MY BODY WHICH IS FOR YOU. DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.” In the same way also the cup, AFTER SUPPER, saying, “THIS CUP IS THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD. DO THIS, AS OFTEN AS YOU DRINK IT, IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.” For AS OFTEN AS YOU EAT THIS BREAD AND DRINK THE CUP, YOU PROCLAIM THE LORD’S DEATH UNTIL HE COMES. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of PROFANING THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. … But, if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. … So then, my brethren, when you COME TOGETHER TO EAT, WAIT FOR ONE ANOTHER ---- IF ANYONE IS HUNGRY, LET HIM EAT AT HOME ---- LEST YOU COME TOGETHER TO BE CONDEMNED.
I have no wish to “interpret” scripture for you…I also have no need to offer you any “compelling” reasons why I cling to the Hope I have in Christ. The reasons I would give you would be rejected out of hand as they disagree with your faith tradition.
“We did not exchange a pope of flesh for a pope of paper.”…“Thee tells me what Christ has said…thee tells me what the prophets say…but what can thee say?” That you have found deep personal and corporate faith among your Catholic brethren is a joy to be sure…I have found Christ among the Friends…and in my study and research…Quakerism works for me just as Catholicism works for you…you will disagree…but our differences are merely “window dressing”…to me they make no difference in our respective relationship with Christ…they only make a difference to us…you like “lace brocade panels” on your windows and I like “hurricane shutters” to cover my windows…both are utilitarian and serve their purpose.
A
Abba
Guest
Hello gmcbroom,
Yes, we do have the Eucharist and Apostolic succession and we do gain much from it, but; are we to keep this to ourselves?
Are we going to put the lamp under the bed? Have you ever felt like screaming it from the bottom of your heart and lungs as if from a mountain top to people who you see walking about and going their way as blind sheep who do not know that they can enter a Catholic Church and be in the presence of God? This happened to me one day right after Mass. It was a week day and I had just walked out of the Cathedral after noon Mass. I was by the Cathedral doors and there were many steps leading down to the sidewalk. On the sidewalk and accross the street on the other sidewalk there were a lot of people, young, old, a young mother pushing a baby cart, many business people, some were entering a bus and others exiting the bus, some were walking really fast and others at a slower speed. I just felt a great desire to somehow let them know, that there behind me is God, Our Lord, and if they enter they could be in his presence. I really wanted to shouted it out!
How can we keep it to ourselves?
It is not all relative. Regarding ‘who am I to judge’ there is a nice link on an earlier post that discusses that not judging is not a license for relativism. Did Jesus contradict himself? Did Paul contradict himself? No, they did not. Jesus told us not to judge one another but he also commanded us to evangelize. Paul wrote about how we should not judge the servant of another but, he wrote about how we should evangelize.
Rolltide wrote a nice post regarding this where he uses the analogy of learning to drive a car and how the Catholics have the instruction but other people do not. I am going to find it and link to it here.
Peace,
Abba
Posts like this make me wish that I was eloquent and could dedicate more time to preparing a response. I hope I have made the point. To be clear, I commend brb3 and Jewel17 for the time they have dedicated to this thread. I will not be surprised if after death Publisher thanks them for their efforts to bring him to the right path.
Of course, gmcbroom, we do read in the Bible some place, I don’t remember where exactly right now, that it is not good to entertain discussions and debates too much. You leave the seed sort of speak and pray that it will grow.
It is an act of charity to evangelize.
Yes, we do have the Eucharist and Apostolic succession and we do gain much from it, but; are we to keep this to ourselves?
Are we going to put the lamp under the bed? Have you ever felt like screaming it from the bottom of your heart and lungs as if from a mountain top to people who you see walking about and going their way as blind sheep who do not know that they can enter a Catholic Church and be in the presence of God? This happened to me one day right after Mass. It was a week day and I had just walked out of the Cathedral after noon Mass. I was by the Cathedral doors and there were many steps leading down to the sidewalk. On the sidewalk and accross the street on the other sidewalk there were a lot of people, young, old, a young mother pushing a baby cart, many business people, some were entering a bus and others exiting the bus, some were walking really fast and others at a slower speed. I just felt a great desire to somehow let them know, that there behind me is God, Our Lord, and if they enter they could be in his presence. I really wanted to shouted it out!
How can we keep it to ourselves?
It is not all relative. Regarding ‘who am I to judge’ there is a nice link on an earlier post that discusses that not judging is not a license for relativism. Did Jesus contradict himself? Did Paul contradict himself? No, they did not. Jesus told us not to judge one another but he also commanded us to evangelize. Paul wrote about how we should not judge the servant of another but, he wrote about how we should evangelize.
Rolltide wrote a nice post regarding this where he uses the analogy of learning to drive a car and how the Catholics have the instruction but other people do not. I am going to find it and link to it here.
Peace,
Abba
Posts like this make me wish that I was eloquent and could dedicate more time to preparing a response. I hope I have made the point. To be clear, I commend brb3 and Jewel17 for the time they have dedicated to this thread. I will not be surprised if after death Publisher thanks them for their efforts to bring him to the right path.
Of course, gmcbroom, we do read in the Bible some place, I don’t remember where exactly right now, that it is not good to entertain discussions and debates too much. You leave the seed sort of speak and pray that it will grow.
B
brb3
Guest
Just one of the many reasons CAF exists, … and where theUniversal Church can excel. Our earliest Apostles/Popes gave the IMPERATIVE to evangelize, to the first century Christians … honoring the GREAT COMMISSION command of Christ to them.
1 Peter 3:15 " … always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence."
Philemon 1:6 " and I pray that the sharing of your faith may promote the knowledge of all the good that is ours in Christ."
Its the ‘gentleness & reverence’ part that we can abuse. PUBLISHER is very gracious in his testimony to the faith of Quakers & Friends. Nevertheless, Paul stresses above that we also need the full knowledge of our faith [here in Philemon, and also in 2 Timothy 2:15].
- Status