Any questions about Jewish religion, culture, or history?

[hannah_miriam]

An excellent question! As I’m sure you know, there is no monolithic Jewish stance towards anything; the Tora, the Prophets, the Talmud, and all the rest of our religious literature comprise a polysemic symphony of diverse voices and perspectives. That said, I believe that we can evaluate the Christian perception of Jesus, as portrayed in the narratives of the Christian testament, vis-a-vis the realities of Jewish history.

To start with, I think that it should be noted that there is much discord in the Christian testament as to the nature and teachings of Jesus. This isn’t to discredit the book out of hand, but rather to note that even Christian perceptions of Jesus (Catholic dogma du jour notwithstanding) aren’t uniform, even within the book redacted by the church itself!

Concerning the title given to Jesus by some of his followers - “king of the Jews” - I would like to quote from a teacher of mine, Jose Faur:

As you can see, when we evaluate Jesus’ behavior (specifically as portrayed by the church in the Christian testament) against the realities of Jewish governance and political thought, we find that the depiction does not match the expectation.

Similarly, many Jews have a problem with the essence of Paul’s theology; namely, the degree to which they contravene our cultural sensibilities and attitudes, especially vis-a-vis the Law/Tora. To quote the great Christian Hebraist, Professor George Moore:

As you can see, much of what Paul taught was completely alien to the Jewish mind, especially the notion that there could be salvation through faith alone (whoever “believes with his heart” will be “justified” regardless of behavior). Furthermore, the notion that “sin” produces “guilt” and “guilt” can only be expiated by death runs contrary to the way the Law/Tora was understood and lived by the Jews for over a thousand years.

I personally believe that Jesus was a young man who sought to universalize the message and values of the Tora and make them accessible to the illiterate masses and to the non-Jewish world in general. His mistake was in attempting to do so outside of the system already in place for such a worthy endeavor; by placing himself outside of the inter-generational chain of our tradition (which abides by various rules that allow it to survive, intact, throughout history), he opened up his “prophecy” to be hijacked by later followers with a different political agenda in mind.

The church, like all institutions and organizations created by human beings, has inherent worth and reflects a deep-seated yearning that could be seen as a universal part of human nature. It is my sincere hope that, with time, the church will come to reach its full potential in serving the spiritual needs of humanity.

I hope that helps to answer your question!

You may be very learned, but I don’t believe you are Jewish for one second. There is no Jew who spells TORAH as Tora! You may recall that Tora! Tora! Tora! was a movie about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and I believe the english translation for that is Attack! Attack! Attack! You are a FRAUD!

 

[patrick457]

You may be very learned, but I don’t believe you are Jewish for one second. There is no Jew who spells TORAH as Tora! You may recall that Tora! Tora! Tora! was a movie about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and I believe the english translation for that is Attack! Attack! Attack! You are a FRAUD!

Not really. Tora (?) is Japanese for tiger. However, the word used here was a codeword of sorts to denote TOtsugeki (?? ‘attack’ or ‘charge’) and RAigeki (?? ‘torpedo attack’).

If you’ll ask me, the codeword was as odd as naming a song ‘Sukiyaki’ (which has totally nothing to do with sukiyaki anyway).

 

[hannah_miriam]

Not really. Tora (?) is Japanese for tiger. However, the word used here was a codeword of sorts to denote TOtsugeki (?? ‘attack’ or ‘charge’) and RAigeki (?? ‘torpedo attack’).

If you’ll ask me, the codeword was as odd as naming a song ‘Sukiyaki’ (which has totally nothing to do with sukiyaki anyway).

Thank you for the lesson in Japanese. However, my point was that this person claiming to be Jewish can not even spell the word TORAH correctly!!

 

[Spirithound]

Thank you for the lesson in Japanese. However, my point was that this person claiming to be Jewish can not even spell the word TORAH correctly!!

Has he said anything to indicate he’s not Jewish? He even disappears during the Sabbath!
Anyways, the Hebrew word has an “h” at the end, but as an anglophone, there’s no way he actually pronounces it in his speech. You’ll need some more evidence before making such an accusation.

 

[7_Sorrows]

i think the point she is making is that any english speaking jewish person knows how to spell Torah.

to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, maybe the person didn’t hit the “h” key hard enough and unintentionally left off the “h”. that has happened to me before, but if any english speaking Jewish person had proofread their e-mail before submitting it, they would have immediately noticed that they had spelled Torah incorrectly.

it would be like spelling Bible - Bibl (we do not pronounce the “e”).

in Hebrew, letters are very significant.

this is my thinking because i noticed it right away and it struck me odd as well, and i am not even jewish.

 

[Nickkname]

That’s a great question!

The essence of the holiday of Passover is not the sacrifice of the lamb, but rather the arranged discussion that took place over the consumption of the meat; the precursor to the modern Passover Seder. This discussion is intended as inter-generational dialogue, in which one generation conveys to the next the basic information underlying our cultural history and spirit, in a response to the younger generation’s inquiry.

When the Passover sacrifice was still offered, it was eaten in groups (Heb. Haburoth), often composed of the members of one’s family and/or neighbors, who would discuss the meaning and impact of the exodus from Egypt, the covenant of Sinai, and the settling of Canaan. The modern Passover Haggada touches upon all of these themes, in addition to some passages pertaining to post-Temple circumstances.

Does that help a bit?

Yes it dose! Thank you for the great answer

 

[patrick457]

i think the point she is making is that any english speaking jewish person knows how to spell Torah.

to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, maybe the person didn’t hit the “h” key hard enough and unintentionally left off the “h”. that has happened to me before, but if any english speaking Jewish person had proofread their e-mail before submitting it, they would have immediately noticed that they had spelled Torah incorrectly.

it would be like spelling Bible - Bibl (we do not pronounce the “e”).

in Hebrew, letters are very significant.

this is my thinking because i noticed it right away and it struck me odd as well, and i am not even jewish.

‘Torah’ being spelled as ‘Tora’ is quite odd for some; but then again some people spell ‘Mishnah’ as ‘Mishna’, ‘Tosefta’ as ‘Toseftah’ or ‘Haggadah’ as ‘Haggada’ (from what I can observe in the Internet). I guess this is just a quirk or something.

 

[7_Sorrows]

well, i have never seen Torah spelled without the “h”.

just as the words deborah or menorah are always spelled with an “h”.

i am not sure if the “ah” is feminine. my hebrew is rusty.

 

[Valke2]

You may be very learned, but I don’t believe you are Jewish for one second. There is no Jew who spells TORAH as Tora! You may recall that Tora! Tora! Tora! was a movie about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and I believe the english translation for that is Attack! Attack! Attack! You are a FRAUD!

That’s some conclusion. So you think someone who has an advanced understanding of Judaism and Christrian beliefs, answers about 50 questions regarding Judaism and is clearly educated on the topics he discusses, never took the time to figure out how most people spell “Torah”? Does that really make sense to you? I’m sure that when he spells it in Hebrew, he gets it right every time.

Btw, I purposely misspelled “Christrian” so that no one would mistake me for being christian.

 

[patrick457]

well, i have never seen Torah spelled without the “h”.

just as the words deborah or menorah are always spelled with an “h”.

i am not sure if the “ah” is feminine. my hebrew is rusty.

I’ve seen the menorah spelled without the h: the Jewish Community of Slovenia’s publication is titled ‘Menora’ (though admittedly, it is in Slovenian) or the Menorah Mivtachim (also spelled as ‘Menora’), for instance. See also here and here (while the title spells it as ‘Menorah’, the article uses ‘Menora’; also see the spelling of Hannukah as ‘Chanuka’).

As for Deborah, well, other languages do use Debora in their renderings of the word.

 

[patrick457]

That’s some conclusion. So you think someone who has an advanced understanding of Judaism and Christrian beliefs, answers about 50 questions regarding Judaism and is clearly educated on the topics he discusses, never took the time to figure out how most people spell “Torah”? Does that really make sense to you?

Btw, I purposely misspelled “Christrian” so that no one would mistake me for being christian.

I’m a Christian, and that conclusion does not make sense to me either; I just hope that no one will assume I’m a non-Christian when spell Jesus as Iesus, Hesus, Gesu, or even Y’shua.

Now, back to topic!

 

[Valke2]

This is why Jews who follow the Tora must keep a distinct path: To keep Judaism alive not just for themselves, but for the Zionists’ children as well.” azure.org.il/article.php?id=358

The Legal name is the one which must be used to call a man to the Tora, … The Yiddish name was one accepted as such by Jews speaking Yiddish. … www.jewishgen.org/databases/givennames/srchdesc

It is notable that whereas the Parsha begins with promises of reward in return for compliance with the Mitzvot of the Tora (VaYikra 26:3-13), … kmsynagogue.org/Bechukotai.html

"Read, write and speak your Tora. myjudaism.net/Tora.html

The ”Torá” (which includes the “Written Law” or text of the Hebrew Bible,and the tradition or the “Oral Law”),1 just as understood by Sepharadi Jewry, is a bidimensional
system. faur.derushah.com/downloads/essays/Sepharadi%20Thought%20in%20the%20Presence%20of%20the%20European%20Enlightenment.pdf

 

[7_Sorrows]

maybe one way is the sephardic and the other is the ashkenazic
(not sure if my spelling was correct).

i notice on the last link they put an accent on the “a” as though it were a spanish pronunciation and on another link it said tora at the top of the page in the title, but in the body of the page wherever the word appeared it had an “h”, so perhaps both spellings are correct.

so we shouldn’t judge so quickly because of the misspelling of one word.

i have never seen the word in english though spelled without the “h”. so perhaps Tora is a spelling in a language other than english, i don’t know. we will have to wait until the person comes back in.

 

[Analyzer]

An excellent question! As I’m sure you know, there is no monolithic Jewish stance towards anything; the Tora, the Prophets, the Talmud, and all the rest of our religious literature comprise a polysemic symphony of diverse voices and perspectives. That said, I believe that we can evaluate the Christian perception of Jesus, as portrayed in the narratives of the Christian testament, vis-a-vis the realities of Jewish history.

To start with, I think that it should be noted that there is much discord in the Christian testament as to the nature and teachings of Jesus. This isn’t to discredit the book out of hand, but rather to note that even Christian perceptions of Jesus (Catholic dogma du jour notwithstanding) aren’t uniform, even within the book redacted by the church itself!

Concerning the title given to Jesus by some of his followers - “king of the Jews” - I would like to quote from a teacher of mine, Jose Faur:

As you can see, when we evaluate Jesus’ behavior (specifically as portrayed by the church in the Christian testament) against the realities of Jewish governance and political thought, we find that the depiction does not match the expectation.

Similarly, many Jews have a problem with the essence of Paul’s theology; namely, the degree to which they contravene our cultural sensibilities and attitudes, especially vis-a-vis the Law/Tora. To quote the great Christian Hebraist, Professor George Moore:

As you can see, much of what Paul taught was completely alien to the Jewish mind, especially the notion that there could be salvation through faith alone (whoever “believes with his heart” will be “justified” regardless of behavior). Furthermore, the notion that “sin” produces “guilt” and “guilt” can only be expiated by death runs contrary to the way the Law/Tora was understood and lived by the Jews for over a thousand years.

I personally believe that Jesus was a young man who sought to universalize the message and values of the Tora and make them accessible to the illiterate masses and to the non-Jewish world in general. His mistake was in attempting to do so outside of the system already in place for such a worthy endeavor; by placing himself outside of the inter-generational chain of our tradition (which abides by various rules that allow it to survive, intact, throughout history), he opened up his “prophecy” to be hijacked by later followers with a different political agenda in mind.

The church, like all institutions and organizations created by human beings, has inherent worth and reflects a deep-seated yearning that could be seen as a universal part of human nature. It is my sincere hope that, with time, the church will come to reach its full potential in serving the spiritual needs of humanity.

I hope that helps to answer your question!

Indeed, you answered my question very generously and scholarly unlike the Chrisitian posters on this forum…and I apprecite it.

Now would you mind shedding some more light on Talmud and on Mishnah from purely Jewish theological standpoint.

Do Jews believe that Torah was direct revealed by God word by word?

Do Jews believe in “inspiration” by Holy Ghost?

 

[Analyzer]

Is it true that The Jerusalem Talmud (Ta’anit 2:1) states explicitly: “if a man claims to be God, he is a liar.”?

 

[Kelli_Gregori]

Yes it dose! Thank you for the great answer

That’s funny!

 

[hannah_miriam]

That’s some conclusion. So you think someone who has an advanced understanding of Judaism and Christrian beliefs, answers about 50 questions regarding Judaism and is clearly educated on the topics he discusses, never took the time to figure out how most people spell “Torah”? Does that really make sense to you? I’m sure that when he spells it in Hebrew, he gets it right every time.

Btw, I purposely misspelled “Christrian” so that no one would mistake me for being christian.

If you haven’t been educated in Judaism, how do you know that what he is telling you is the truth? My point is that none of us here ever really know who we are corresponding with do we?

And another thing, go to any Jewish website (chabad.org) for example and show me where it spells TORAH withouth the “H”. Also, it is either Shabbos or Shabbat not Shabbot.

 

[Nickkname]

That’s funny!

 

[Nickkname]

I have a question: What is up with all the H’s in Judaism? There’s Torah and Hannah and Mishnah and…so on and so forth. Is it because the letter H in the Hebrew alphabet is mystical, or is it just a favorite letter? And why do so many words end in H?

 

[hannah_miriam]

I have a question: What is up with all the H’s in Judaism? There’s Torah and Hannah and Mishnah and…so on and so forth. Is it because the letter H in the Hebrew alphabet is mystical, or is it just a favorite letter? And why do so many words end in H?

I am not sure, but the word TORAH is derived from the word
hora’ah (instruction).