Any questions about Jewish religion, culture, or history?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Verus_Israel
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sam_777 said:
Welcome "Verus Israel" to CAF :),

Its good to see someone resident in Israel posting at CAF, I hope you will be a permanent poster here, however, here are my questions:
  1. Is Israel a secular country or a Jewish one, I mean can someone live in a city that’s strictly following the Jewish law?
  2. Are all foods served in Israel conform to the Jewish dietary laws.
  3. Do you think it is logic to assume that The Most High/Yahweh made covenant with Ishmael after reading (Genesis 17:17-22).
  4. Why do you think the Jews in early days in Arabian Peninsula didn’t accept the Islamic prophet Muhammed, is there anything written about him outside the Bible from those early days that described him?
Click to expand...
What is written about him inside the Bible that described him?
 
If a Jewish woman were to have children, her children would be Jewish even if their father wasn’t. However, if a Jewish man fathered children, they would not be Jewish if their mother was not.

This is my understanding… is it true?
 
I’m not Jewish, but there are several pieces of support, first with Ishmael not being of a Jewish line, Isaac being the head of it, difference being the mothers.

Next:

Leviticus 24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;

Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

So the son was to be treated as a Jew even though his father was Egyptian. His mother was an Israelite under Torah.

Next are putting away of strange/Gentile wives and their children as non-Jews.

Ezra 10:3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

However in my opinion the tradition has gone overboard in saying ANYONE born to a Jewish mother is a Jew, even if they don’t observe Torah. This is an error, I believe non-Torah observant Jews are simply Gentiles.

Aside from the issue of anyone rejecting Jesus being the same as heathen regardless, Romans 2:28-29 etc. But that’s another story.
 
What I find fascinating, is the challenge that I’ve seen,
rendered in different forms, de temps en temps.

Which “Judiac belief”? - about messiah…or any other belief held.

In our own day, there are Reform and Conservative Judaism, as well as Orthodox Judaism.

I recall reading that the term "Orthodox Judaism’
would not have been in use, at the time of Jesus.
Judaism was Judaism, in that day - with regard to
the observance of Torah.

While various sects were also present, Joseph and Mary
had no difficulty recognizing Judaism, apparently.
Nor would there be doubt about which group they
would recognize, in our own day, methinks -
‘Orthodox’ Judaism, where Torah is observed,
in a form that Mary and Joseph would have recognized.

jewfaq.org/613.htm

Karaism [Karaite Judaism] accepts the Tanakh,
in a kind of sola scriptura, while rejecting the Oral Law.

Both Conservative and Reform Judaism would not agree
with Orthodox Judaism, on given points of belief.

reen12
 
reen12 said:
I appreciate your reply, Verus Israel, and yes, you fully addressed my questions. Thank you.
I have an additional question, if you would have the patience
and the kindness to address same.
Catholics are used to a clear ‘authority’ - when it comes to
matters pertaining to the generation of doctrines and dogmas,
as well as the interpretation of Scripture.
My understanding is that Judaism has no such ‘authority,’
and that opinions - on various questions [within reason] - are accomodated.
If I understand, correctly, Judaism is interested, primarily, in the
keeping of Torah. Abstract matters are not of interest, for the
most part. The ‘systemizing,’ redolent of Christian theology -
is not at all the focus, in Judaism.
What constitutes ‘authority,’ in Judaism?
reen12
Click to expand...
An excellent question!

In Judaism, the law is the sole authority. The law is not simply what 5 out of 9 individuals in black robes make it out to be, either 🙂 - rather, it is something to which every man, woman, and child in our nation is subject. All our equal before our law; men and women, rich and poor, adults and children, kings and citizens. This is demonstrated by the “atonement” offerings that each branch of our government - the judicial (represented by the head of the Sanhedrin), the ecclesiastic (represented by the High Priest), and the executive (represented by the king) - must bring when rendering a mistaken ruling, erring in the Temple service, or mistakenly transgressing any of the precepts of the Tora. No Israelite social institution is above the law.

Does that help at all? 🙂
 
reen12 said:
As to the Temple, and animal sacrifice -
My own thought, for what it’s worth, is this:
God knew, from all eternity, that animal sacrifice would come to an end,
among the nations - as time moved forward. The Babylonian captivity
was a time when sacrifice could not be offered, in the Temple.
Was this a preparation, for the worship of God, in the synagogue setting -
as the events of history moved forward?
Through the prophets, God tells His people that He wishes mercy, not sacrifice.
[not mutually exclusive, I realize.]
quote: Verus Israel
This new reality - ‘worship of the heart’ - is averred to, I think, in the psalm.
"My prayer shall be established like incense before You -
the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.’’ Ps. 141
reen12
Click to expand...
Reen,

Your insightful comments are similar to the perspective of the rabbinic school of thought typified by Ribbi Yishma’el b. Elisha (c. 100 CE), which was also espoused by the Andalusian/Geonic tradition. 🙂
 
yellowbird said:
If a Jewish woman were to have children, her children would be Jewish even if their father wasn’t. However, if a Jewish man fathered children, they would not be Jewish if their mother was not.

This is my understanding… is it true?
Click to expand...
According to rabbinic law, this is indeed true. Rabbinic law does not recognize sexual cohabitation as a valid form of conversion (see an above post on conversion for more information).
 
Verus_Israel said:
Reen,

Your insightful comments are similar to the perspective of the rabbinic school of thought typified by Ribbi Yishma’el b. Elisha (c. 100 CE), which was also espoused by the Andalusian/Geonic tradition. 🙂
Click to expand...
I am so grateful that you are here, Verus Israel.
All that I can know is from reading, not from any
kind of personal experience, as a member of Judaism.
Nor do I feel, at all, called to convert.

Having spent, literally, decades, doing Catholic apologetics,
in the sense of defending the Church - if I heard her teachings
or practice mis-stated - I came to realize the truth, as spoken by
Zechariah:

Thus says the Lord of hosts: In those days ten men of every nationality, speaking different tongues, shall take hold, yes, take hold of every Jew by the edge of his garment and say,
“Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” Zechariah 8: 23.

I shall now go ‘off the air,’ as it were, http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif and leave,
in your capable hands, the addressing of questions posed.

reen12
 
OK Verus, I’ll ask a hard one. I embarrass my Jewish colleagues with it. I think some of them suspect me of anti-Semitism.

I came across this website.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nobels.html

It is a list of Jewish Nobel Laureates.

Let’s leave aside for the moment the fact that no other group so numerically insignificant would be able to have such a website.

I’m only interested in the science laureates. The peace and literature ones are often motivated more by politics then intrinsic merit.

By my count between 1990 and 2007 there were roughly 160 Nobel laureates in chemistry, physics, life sciences and economics. Of these roughly a quarter were Jewish.

How likely is it that this happened just by chance?

Most science Nobelists originate from North America, Europe and Israel. Jews make up at most 2% of this population. So you would expect to see 3 or 4 science Nobelists by chance. 5 or 6 would not be surprising.

But 39!

How likely is that to happen by chance? A simple application of binomial probability shows it’s literally off the charts. I am more likely to win the Australian Powerball lottery not once, not twice, but three times in a row.

This is a phenomenon that begs for an explanation.

Let’s leave out conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the Nobel committee. They are not credible.

Any ideas Verus?
 
kristin2007 said:
OK Verus, I’ll ask a hard one. I embarrass my Jewish colleagues with it. I think some of them suspect me of anti-Semitism.
I came across this website.
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nobels.html
It is a list of Jewish Nobel Laureates.
Let’s leave aside for the moment the fact that no other group so numerically insignificant would be able to have such a website.
I’m only interested in the science laureates. The peace and literature ones are often motivated more by politics then intrinsic merit.
By my count between 1990 and 2007 there were roughly 160 Nobel laureates in chemistry, physics, life sciences and economics. Of these roughly a quarter were Jewish.
How likely is it that this happened just by chance?
Most science Nobelists originate from North America, Europe and Israel. Jews make up at most 2% of this population. So you would expect to see 3 or 4 science Nobelists by chance. 5 or 6 would not be surprising.
But 39!
How likely is that to happen by chance? A simple application of binomial probability shows it’s literally off the charts. I am more likely to win the Australian Powerball lottery not once, not twice, but three times in a row.
This is a phenomenon that begs for an explanation.
Let’s leave out conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the Nobel committee. They are not credible.
Any ideas Verus?
Click to expand...
One can never know the answer to questions like these with any degree of certainty. However, I will vouch for the academic social paradigm in which our culture unfolds, and the degree to which we value textual study and the development of higher critical thinking skills and habits. It certainly isn’t a genetic trait; two converts (from the descendants of 'Amaleq, no less!) - Sham’aya and Avtalyon (c. 100 BCE) - feature as key links in the transmission of our tradition, having been the most accomplished rabbinic scholars of their time.

I would also like to point out that the assessment of Nobel Laureates is biased against cultures which did not assimilate into the European academic culture.

A great question, though!🙂
 
Isa_Almisry said:
What is written about him inside the Bible that described him?
Click to expand...
Hi Isa,

I mean those prophecies:

(Genesis 16:11-12):
“The angel of the LORD also said to her: "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”

(Matthew 7:15-16):
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”

(Revelation 16:13):
“Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”

(Revelation 19:20):
“But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image”

(Revelation 20:10):
“And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
 
Verus_Israel said:
Originally, some of the Jewish tribes did view Muhammed favorably; opposition to him and his followers grew only due to political circumstance that unfortunately developed over the course of early Muslim history.
Click to expand...
Hi “Verus Israel”,

Based on what those Jewish tribes viewed him favourably?, maybe just because they were speaking the same language (Arabic)!, or because they were living in the same place!.

What Muhammed brought was something big, if he was wrong, then those relative Jews should have warned him NOT favourably him.
 
Verus_Israel said:
“The” messiah is understood to be an individual who will liberate us from our current exile, where we are subject to laws that are intrinsically opposed to our own, and resume our civil and religious institutions (e.g. the Temple, which is a house of prayer for all nations).

Whenever we find ourselves in a state of socio-political subjugation (bound under the sovereignty of anything but our own law), we await a “messiah” - someone to liberate us from these unfortunate conditions.

I hope that helps! 🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help! I shall now continue on the theme 👍
Is Psalm 22 considered to be Messianic prophecy?
Given that the messiah will liberate all y’all from socio-political subjugation, what kind of messiah might a Hasidic Jew living in New York hope for? (or, I guess any other stream of Judaism too ;))
 
Sam_777 said:
Hi “Verus Israel”,
Based on what those Jewish tribes viewed him favourably?, maybe just because they were speaking the same language (Arabic)!, or because they were living in the same place!.
What Muhammed brought was something big, if he was wrong, then those relative Jews should have warned him NOT favourably him.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure - history is rather nebulous like that! 🙂

However, to my limited knowledge, the Jewish tribes who were favorably disposed towards Muhammad were impressed by his ethical sensitivity and cultural background. As a young man, he spent many years with Jewish families from whom he learned a lot about the idea of a literary religious society.
 
Spirithound said:
Thanks for your help! I shall now continue on the theme 👍
Is Psalm 22 considered to be Messianic prophecy?
Given that the messiah will liberate all y’all from socio-political subjugation, what kind of messiah might a Hasidic Jew living in New York hope for? (or, I guess any other stream of Judaism too ;))
Click to expand...
You’re more than welcome! 🙂

Generally speaking, we do not consider anything in the Hagiographa (Heb. kethuvim) to be prophetic in any way.

The various streams (a wonderful choice of words, btw) of Judaism relate to the concept of “messiah” in very different ways. Expectations range from the mundane to the miraculous - but all pertain to the same objective: restoring us to life solely under our own law, and reinstating our religious and civil institutions.

If you’d like me to elaborate further, please let me know. 🙂
 
Verus_Israel said:
You’re more than welcome! 🙂

Generally speaking, we do not consider anything in the Hagiographa (Heb. kethuvim) to be prophetic in any way.

The various streams (a wonderful choice of words, btw) of Judaism relate to the concept of “messiah” in very different ways. Expectations range from the mundane to the miraculous - but all pertain to the same objective: restoring us to life solely under our own law, and reinstating our religious and civil institutions.

If you’d like me to elaborate further, please let me know. 🙂
Click to expand...
I guess my underlying assumption is that a community of Jews living in, for example, NYC, might like it there, and are not really looking to return to the land we call Israel, and my question is kinda like how does that square with the messiah’s role of returning the Jews to their own law and institutions?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top