Any recommended reading for potential participant in a mixed marriage?

[CredoUnumDeum]

The books MrsSally posted are great books.

But unless you have half a dozen friends getting married to non-Catholics, don’t you think your friend will know what you are doing?

Doesn’t what you plan on doing sound a little passive/aggressive?
We are telling you that you should think before you act.

And that if the Church allows something like interfaith marriages or altar girls, then you should take that into consideration before you tell someone that it is wrong.

We aren’t missing the point. We are telling you that you need to see other points.

To which I would simply respond that Moses, at one point, legitimized divorce, so as to preserve the unity of the Israelite people. I’m not saying ends justify means, but not all morally neutral things are also ‘to be encouraged’. Whether or not mixed marriage is technically permissible, in many cases it is to be strongly discouraged. There are a number of things that the Church permits–but they are not broad, sweepingly applicable things that all Catholics should be *encouraged *to engage in. Since I know my friend and you don’t, it’s probably less than effective for you to keep telling me that, in general, ‘the Church allows it, so there’. I didn’t ask for outside judgment of her situation; I asked for, given the situation I’ve described, suggestions to evangelize. Thus far there are maybe two posts that have responded to the question, as asked, instead of judging me or my level of involvement, which, frankly, is none of your business

 

[maryjk]

To which I would simply respond that Moses, at one point, legitimized divorce, so as to preserve the unity of the Israelite people. I’m not saying ends justify means, but not all morally neutral things are also ‘to be encouraged’. Whether or not mixed marriage is technically permissible, in many cases it is to be strongly discouraged.

I’m not saying that you have to encourage her. Simply realize that unless she is pretty stupid, she is going to realize that you aren’t just posting random quotes that happen to say that she is making a big mistake. That there are better ways to approach a situation like this. That being passive/aggressive could very likely backfire.

There are a number of things that the Church permits–but they are not broad, sweepingly applicable things that all Catholics should be *encouraged *to engage in. Since I know my friend and you don’t, it’s probably less than effective for you to keep telling me that, in general, ‘the Church allows it, so there’.

Looking for where I said, “so there.” I simply said you should take into consideration that the Church allows it.

I didn’t ask for outside judgment of her situation; I asked for, given the situation I’ve described, suggestions to evangelize. Thus far there are maybe two posts that have responded to the question, as asked, instead of judging me or my level of involvement, which, frankly, is none of your business

And my suggestion for you, to evangelize, is to NOT play the passive/aggressive card. It rarely works. And chances are your friend isn’t going to be too happy with you.

I haven’t judged you. And you have made it everyone’s business since you posted here.

 

[Lorelei12]

To be clear…I am not trying to obstruct her potential marriage or break up her relationship. Nor am I looking to hand her a homework list. I simply (as I said from the beginning) want to find some clear, Catholic, charitable articles, quotes etc (esp from Saints or encyclicals) that pertain to why the Church may now allow it, but has always discouraged it. My thought was to post some general things on my facebook page or my blog, as public, non-specific posts, and if she chose to read them, or noticed them and the Holy Spirit acted to give her any direction from them, so be it. If not, then not. I’m trying to fulfill my duty as a Catholic to offer example and reiteration of the words and advice of the Church/holy men and women for the sake of a friend’s soul, do with it what God and she will do.

However, if this thread is just going to turn into people telling me why I should butt out, then those people are, unfortunately, missing my point entirely, and it’s rather silly to continue to hound you all for suggestions so begrudgingly given. No worries, I’ll pray about it some more and look elsewhere. Please do keep her in your prayers!

If you had posted that you had a friend almost engaged to a Protestant and you were concerned that they weren’t really aware of what this would mean for them and were looking for book recommendations, I think my response would have been different. But as it is, you start out with “I’m dating a Catholic, but my friend isn’t”, and continue with an incorrect statement that Catholics must always have a Nuptial Mass, and then present your opinion about female altar servers as a way of demonstrating that you disagree with the Church.

Because of all that, I think you might be in danger of harming your friendship. You get to choose your spouse, she gets to choose hers. I’m not missing your point- I understand that you care about her and want her to make the right choice. And I absolutely agree that any Catholic marrying a Protestant has additional concerns to address- this is the reason dispensations are necessary. You don’t need to “encourage” her if you feel strongly about it. But (and I say this as someone who married a baptized but non practicing Catholic) if one of my friends had expressed some of the things you have expressed here, we probably would not be friends any longer. Thankfully, my friends and family trusted my judgment, they love my husband, and they gracefully shut their mouths and left any concerns up to God, our priest, and the others participating in our marital preparation. I am not saying that you shouldn’t say anything, but you mentioned that you have already had conversations about it. There comes a time when you have said your piece that you need to move on and respect others’ decisions.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

To which I would simply respond that Moses, at one point, legitimized divorce, so as to preserve the unity of the Israelite people. I’m not saying ends justify means, but not all morally neutral things are also ‘to be encouraged’. Whether or not mixed marriage is technically permissible, in many cases it is to be strongly discouraged. There are a number of things that the Church permits–but they are not broad, sweepingly applicable things that all Catholics should be *encouraged *to engage in. Since I know my friend and you don’t, it’s probably less than effective for you to keep telling me that, in general, ‘the Church allows it, so there’. I didn’t ask for outside judgment of her situation; I asked for, given the situation I’ve described, suggestions to evangelize. Thus far there are maybe two posts that have responded to the question, as asked, instead of judging me or my level of involvement, which, frankly, is none of your business

Sorry, No and I mean this with all Christian charity and love. 1) Yes mixed marriage can be a challenge and no I’m not saying that we should all go and ‘encourage’ Catholics to pursue it but you don’t know who your friend is called to marry.

1. I don’t think anybody was judging, we were/are giving you advice based on the best of our knowledge. You brought this to us, nobody snooped in your business and gave unsolicited commentary on you or your friend.

You are “concerned” which is admirable but people are letting you know that your plan has some holes. See below on blogging and facebooking resources on mixed marriage when your friend probably more than realizes she is the only person you know pursuing this. If a friend did this to me I would probably approach her and let her know that I while I appreciate her concerns and looking out for me, I am a well informed consumer so to speak. We were trying to save you that awkward conversation but if you want to have it with her thats your prerogative.

I’m not saying that you have to encourage her. Simply realize that unless she is pretty stupid, she is going to realize that you aren’t just posting random quotes that happen to say that she is making a big mistake. That there are better ways to approach a situation like this. That being passive/aggressive could very likely backfire. Looking for where I said, “so there.” I simply said you should take into consideration that the Church allows it.
And my suggestion for you, to evangelize, is to NOT play the passive/aggressive card. It rarely works. And chances are your friend isn’t going to be too happy with you.

I haven’t judged you. And you have made it everyone’s business since you posted here.

Everything she says.

 

[thewanderer]

As others have mentioned, whatever you do, do not post something on facebook against mixed marriages. That is extremely passive-aggressive and is not going to incline your friend in any way shape or form to re-consider her decision.

I am willing to admit that there is a possibility that it would be worth talking to her, on three conditions.

1. That she has the right personality such that she will be able to get over the hurt and defensiveness she will feel when she realizes you are disapproving of her fiance and put that aside to look for your true intention of helping her. Trust me, thats not something everyone can do, and without that ability speaking to her will not help her but will just ruin your relationship with her.
2. That you are extremely careful and considerate both in how you go about this and making it clear that you are not trying to control her or her decision but rather just that you know this kind of marriage presents extra difficulties and you want to make sure she goes into it with eyes open.
3. That you make sure you have your facts straight (such as realizing that the norm in a case such as hers is to not have a nuptial mass) and that you make sure you are acting purely out of love and concern for her well-being and happiness (rather than out of a sense that “good” catholics don’t enter mixed-marriages or anything like that. Yes, it is not encouraged, but sometimes it truly is a persons vocation). Don’t act out of some removed sense of duty that Catholics are supposed to always warn others against sin, and since the Church does not encourage this I must, out of some catholic duty, also discourage this. If you do that you are setting yourself up for failure, and by that I mean failing to make your friend reconsider anything while at the same time destroying your relationship with her.

Just to give a personal example of why I set up the above conditions, before I was officially engaged to my husband, but while we were both already planning on marrying as soon as finances worked out, I talked to a close friend of mine on the phone. In the course of the conversation I brought up how serious our relationship was, that I was really considering marrying this guy. She proceeded to delicately ask me questions about the relationship, to try and probe at it a little because she wasn’t sure he was a good match for me. Just to get me thinking about thing like “do you pray together? Has your spiritual life increased with this relationship or not? What is it about him that draws you to him?” etc And even with the careful and gentle way she approached the broaching of this topic “She was more gentle with the questions than I am here”, and that none of these questions were in any way directly questioning the relationship, but were instead for me to think about to make sure that I (not her) made the right decision here, even though I knew that her questions came entirely from a place of love and concern for me and I wasn’t even engaged at that point, I was hurt. I was hurt and upset by the fact that she wasn’t showing approval of my relationship, that she wasn’t just being happy for me. I was upset that she was implicitly suggesting that my relationship wasn’t a good one, that she had concerns that my almost fiance might not be the best match for me. And it was hard for me to get over that. I did, just barely, and before the end of the call let her know that while I had been responding in a clearly upset and non-congenial manner I did understand that she was only asking those questions because she truly cared about me personally and wanted to make sure that I thought about them so that I didn’t rush into something with my eyes shut to potential problems. But it wasn’t easy. And she in turn, let it drop. When we became engaged, she congratulated us heartily, helped us all she could, was extremely supportive and loving. All of this despite the fact that she had still not been absolutely convinced it was the right choice for me (which I only found out later because of the obvious relief in her voice when I talked to her later on about our relationship after marriage). If she had been even slightly more intrusive of about her concerns for our relationship, if she had shown slightly less loving concern for me and my well-being, if I had been slightly less capable of setting my emotions aside to see the real motives of her questions I can assure you our relationship would not be healthy as it is today. So, yes, speaking to others about your concern with their relationship can work andcan be a very good thing to do, but only in just the right circumstances. So be very careful before you decide to go do something similar. Pray about it, ask God for discernment on what you should do, on what your real motives are, on whether or not she will be able to be friendly and receptive to your words or not. Don’t assume that you have a duty to speak up. And, whatever you do, don’t post something against mixed-marriages on facebook… if my friend had tried to warn me of her concerns through a passive-aggressive move like that, yeah, as I said, we would not be on nearly as friendly terms as we are now.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Ask her to write out the things that Catholics believe that his faith does not. An exercise in ‘how well do you understand his faith’.

I’ll start…

The Pope as the Prime Minister of the Church, and the papa to the world. How does he feel about the Pope?

The Eucharist. You must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, or you will not have life within you.

Going to confession, telling a man your sins.

The blessed Mother. Do Catholics worship Mary? What does he think? and the saints?

Catholics cannot use artificial contraception or get sterilized once they have had their 2 kids. How does that go over with both of them?

Baptism of babies. Is that OK with him?

How is the fellowship at his church? Lots going on, people to meet, things to do? There are many Protestant churches that are very welcoming and one can really feel right at home. Some Catholic parishes, not so much. What does that mean when you have a couple of kids and they have group activities that are fun and the kids make friends? How much is the husband going to pull to stay there and put down roots there?

That’s a start. Pray about how to handle it, so it is a time of reflection for her.

I always hope that Catholics will continue in their faith and find a Catholic spouse to share their life and family with. Growing up in a non faith home and coming into the Church in my 20’s, I would rather have stayed single than have one date with a non-Catholic. Many don’t share this idea. I feel like I’ve been pulled out from a dark hole and brought into light by the kindness of God, and I don’t want to give up the Eucharist for any temptation. Especially when children and grandchildren are involved. Certainly choosing a spouse will affect the generations after you.