any vegetarians out here?

[Mintaka]

Plants have DNA too. Heck, even if you don’t eat anything, you breathe and drink in hundreds of thousands of microscopic organisms, and you also consume your own cells. So you’ll have to get over being sickened by consuming DNA.

Plus, you won’t live too long eating only minerals.

I feel for you about your father. You should be glad you’re not in my family! My mom made a scrapbook of the entire funeral and embalming process of her father. (Partly for legal reasons, partly because my mom loves detailed photo documentation of all events, and partly because Grandma’s sisters kept giving her tranquilizers and Grandma was clearly not going to remember much of the funeral.) Anyway, the point is that I was called upon to go with my mom to keep an eye on the embalming process, since there’d been some problems with the original embalming before he was shipped home to us for his burial. Needless to say, I didn’t find it delightful to see Grandpa looking the worse for wear.

But we aren’t like the pagans who have no hope, as they say. It’s unpleasant to see corruption acting on a well-loved face, and it can be unnerving to see just how close our bodies are to the animals. But there is more to it than that, and we know it. And when I see that body again, it will have been raised, and changed, and reunited with the soul belonging to it.

And Grandpa will laugh his head off about that scrapbook.

 

[seek]

I wish I could be but I have always been too weak to make the
change whole hog (pardon the pun). We are called to be
good stewards of God’s Dominion. The slaughterhouses
in any of our meat industries are a shame. There are
many examples of being more kind to our God’s creation–
even in death in scripture There is also the awareness, I don’t think has
been discussed, of how much more farmland is necessary
to raise meat. If I remember right it take 16 times more
farmland to sustain our animal protein diet than vegans.
Rain forests are being razed to satisfy our hunger. It all seems
crazy to me, yet I partake in the craziness

 

[Fidelia]

I am a vegetarian because the eating of meat is unethical. It is completely unnecessary in the diet, it is not what our bodies are designed to predominantly ingest, and considering we do not need it for a healthy diet, the needless slaughter of animals for our (pleasure) food is not ethcal. It is completely unecessary. The CCC even says we should not cause the unneccary suffering or killing of animals. We (our society anyway) are past needing to go and eat animals. we have the scientific and nutritional knowledge that we dont have to, and we have the means not to.

Christianity and vegetarianism:
all-creatures.org/cva/honoring.htm
all-creatures.org/cva/hgc-replies.htm
The American Dietetic Association:
eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_933_ENU_HTML.htm

 

[Celeste88]

Even if you’re a vegetarian, aren’t you still contributing to the unethical farming practices and cruelty when you feed your dog or cat? They have to eat meat, you can’t raise a cat on bean sprouts! The meat has to come from somewhere and most of us prefer to buy something already processed.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Well…umm…I don’t know how old you are but you most certainly will pay for that kind of diet if you continue eating like that! I don’t want to change the topic on this thread but a diet loaded with meat & fat is not a very healthy one. The diet above seems loaded with fat, animal fat…not good. Not only bad for your coronary arteries but studies seem to indicated diets diets high in red meat to be linked to colon cancer. I can sympathize with your hypoglycemia as my blood sugar can have highs and lows. Why not add more fiber to your diet, like oatmeal for breakfast, more fish such as salmon (easy on the tuna) and healthy oils such as olive oil and leaner meats. I know I should talk but I’m trying to add healthy foods and my total cholestrol is still below 200.

Im eating pretty much the type of diet that I grew up with and my parents grew up, great grand parents etc etc. The average life span in moms family is about maybe 82, the average life span in dad’s family is about maybe 87 and both sides have hAD PEOPLE live well into their 90s. on the other hand my wife’s family does some of that stuff you segested, and no one has lived byond 74 on her mom’s side and no one on her health fanatic dad’s side has ever lived byond 71. its all a genetic crapshoot. Im married to a wife who isnt much of a cook and she will say that before I will. I have a job where the hours are never the same from one week to annother so we make a lots of quick foods. I just got done working 2 12 hours days, after that I dont feel like dawddling around with dinner, I just want to fill up with something tasty nice and quick and get to my intellectual craving that my physical oriented jobs causes me to have and go on the net, and chill out. when I grew up I ate mainly meat and potaotoes because that what my mom grew up with and my mom’s taste for food is the blander the better. so we never had any funky strong tasting vegiies or spicy foods. with my income being enough to get by, and not much time or money to do the things I like Im going to keep eating time something pleasant and eat the things I like, and if I die young, which family history shows is very unlikely to happen, hey at least I dont have to work a job I dont like anymore.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I am a vegetarian because the eating of meat is unethical. It is completely unnecessary in the diet, it is not what our bodies are designed to predominantly ingest, and considering we do not need it for a healthy diet, the needless slaughter of animals for our (pleasure) food is not ethcal. It is completely unecessary. The CCC even says we should not cause the unneccary suffering or killing of animals. We (our society anyway) are past needing to go and eat animals. we have the scientific and nutritional knowledge that we dont have to, and we have the means not to.

Christianity and vegetarianism:
all-creatures.org/cva/honoring.htm
all-creatures.org/cva/hgc-replies.htm
The American Dietetic Association:
eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_933_ENU_HTML.htm

first I want to let you in on a little secret. the church has not condemned eating meat yet. so by virtue of that its ok. Id like to see what you will being doing about the way you eat if you contracted the level of hypoglycemia my mother has. eating your veggie diet you’d have to me eating all waking hours to keep blood sugar up enough to funtion. if that happens I hope you have a job that allows frequent eating brakes. I dont really care what the rest of christianity say I only care what the vatican says and they havent said it is wrong to eat meat, that good enough for me. read my other posts in this thread ,I cant stand the tasted of most vegies and I have a job with widely varying hours. yester day I went in at 10 am, and didnt get out till 10 pm, with no brakes because it was very busy. I was too tired to cook at home and had burger king(for the first time in a month). I was jelly at the end of the day and my blood sugar Im sure was very low. Im sure for survival we dont need to eat me, but at the end of the day mere survival doenst mean anything to me, Im a human being survival in the usa ought to be taken for granted. theres to many thing to make food prep complicated too many things to figure out to vegetarian cooking. with a wife who admittidly is not a good cook and has severe arthraitis herself we dont have time for stuff that long and drawn out. our meals need to be tasty ( or I dont eat) and able to be made in mere minutes. they also need to be able to balance out my blood sugar for as long as possbile or im hungery again very soon.

 

[mchale]

Jesus ate meat at the Passover. The Jews in the OT were commanded to eat the animals that were sacrificed. Also, I’ve studied nutrition & have concluded that vegetarianism is unhealthy in the long run. You can do it for awhile, but eventually, the body needs meat to be optimally healthy (fish, eggs, etc.).
Of all the supercentenarians I’ve studied (people who live past 110), none were vegans. I’ve never heard of anyone living past 80 on a vegetarian diet. In fact, many die young…
Meat has nutrients that other foods don’t provide.
I am curious. How long have you lived wtihout meat? Are you a vegan?

Ok, I am not a vegetarian, nor do I think that we have some ethical or moral imperative to not eat meat. That being said, Trappist Monks and Trappistine Nuns are (with the exception of those with health problems) strict vegetarians (not Vegans). Obviously the sample size is small, and there are other factors that probably contribute, but over all they tend to have longer lifespans on average.

It appears perfectly possible to be both a vegetarian and to have a very healthy diet. It gets a little dicier with vegan diets but even then with care one can get all the nutrients one needs.

–
Bill

 

[mchale]

I am a vegetarian because the eating of meat is unethical. It is completely unnecessary in the diet, it is not what our bodies are designed to predominantly ingest, and considering we do not need it for a healthy diet, the needless slaughter of animals for our (pleasure) food is not ethcal. It is completely unecessary. The CCC even says we should not cause the unneccary suffering or killing of animals. We (our society anyway) are past needing to go and eat animals. we have the scientific and nutritional knowledge that we dont have to, and we have the means not to.

Calling meat eating unethicial is, I think, a dangerous slope for a Catholic to go down. Certainly you can claim that the current methods of producing meat are unethical, but the simple fact of consuming meat cannot be ethical unless we are to take the position that Jesus was unethical (We know from the gospel that he at least ate fish, and likely ate lamb or goat at passover if not at another time). The problem of course with that is that by definition Jesus could not have been unethical. As a result, it is pretty clear that the simple consumption of meat in ones diet is not by nature unethical.

Remember, even 2000 years ago, there were people following vegetarian diets. The Buddha and many sects of Hinduism were making vegetarian diets part and parcel of their ethical systems. So the question is why didn’t God?

–
Bill

 

[Fidelia]

Calling meat eating unethicial is, I think, a dangerous slope for a Catholic to go down. Certainly you can claim that the current methods of producing meat are unethical, but the simple fact of consuming meat cannot be ethical unless we are to take the position that Jesus was unethical (We know from the gospel that he at least ate fish, and likely ate lamb or goat at passover if not at another time). The problem of course with that is that by definition Jesus could not have been unethical. As a result, it is pretty clear that the simple consumption of meat in ones diet is not by nature unethical.

Remember, even 2000 years ago, there were people following vegetarian diets. The Buddha and many sects of Hinduism were making vegetarian diets part and parcel of their ethical systems. So the question is why didn’t God?

–
Bill

2000 years ago there were not factory farms. Now there are. and now, we also have acquired the knowledge that meat is not necessary for our diets. Not in the least. Factory farms are highly unethical and it is unethical to needlessly contribute to the suffering they cause just because you like the taste of meat.
You can’t take things out of context the way you are. 2000 years ago it was not unethical for Jesus to eat meat, no one says it was. But today, in our society eating meat is not ethical. 2000 years ago is not relevant.

 

[Fidelia]

first I want to let you in on a little secret. the church has not condemned eating meat yet. so by virtue of that its ok. **Just because the Church doesn’t say it is a sin does not make it ethical. **Id like to see what you will being doing about the way you eat if you contracted the level of hypoglycemia my mother has. eating your veggie diet you’d have to me eating all waking hours to keep blood sugar up enough to funtion. if that happens I hope you have a job that allows frequent eating brakes.Do some research and you will fing that a balanced vegetarian diet is ver healthy. I dont really care what the rest of christianity say I only care what the vatican says and they havent said it is wrong to eat meat, that good enough for me. read my other posts in this thread ,I cant stand the tasted of most vegies and I have a job with widely varying hours. yester day I went in at 10 am, and didnt get out till 10 pm, with no brakes because it was very busy. I was too tired to cook at home and had burger king(for the first time in a month). I was jelly at the end of the day and my blood sugar Im sure was very low. Im sure for survival we dont need to eat me, but at the end of the day mere survival doenst mean anything to me, Im a human being survival in the usa ought to be taken for granted. theres to many thing to make food prep complicated **like the contamination of raw meat? **too many things to figure out to vegetarian cooking there is nothing to ‘figure out’ many people actually choose it for its convenience. with a wife who admittidly is not a good cook and has severe arthraitis herself we dont have time for stuff that long and drawn out there is nothing long and drawn out. if having to maek sure a slab of animal flesh that is a luxury you don’t even need is fully cooked and won’t make you ill isn’t long and drawn out, I don’t know what is.. our meals need to be tasty ( or I dont eat) and able to be made in mere minutes **mine are both. **. they also need to be able to balance out my blood sugar for as long as possbile or im hungery again very soon.

You need to do some research before drawing all those false conclusions about a vegetarian diet.
eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_933_ENU_HTML.htm

 

[fix]

2But today, in our society eating meat is not ethical.

Why would meat eating be wrong? It is not intrinsically evil. You argument seems to be that the way animals are treated to obtain the meat is wrong? That may be true for certain reasons, but eating meat itself is not wrong.

One question may be is it cooperating with evil to eat meat that has been obtained through factory farming? I have seeen no proof that it is. You may hold such an opinion, but where is the objective proof one is guilty of wrongdoing for consuming such meat?

 

[Fidelia]

Why would meat eating be wrong? It is not intrinsically evil. You argument seems to be that the way animals are treated to obtain the meat is wrong? That may be true for certain reasons, but eating meat itself is not wrong.

One question may be is it cooperating with evil to eat meat that has been obtained through factory farming? I have seeen no proof that it is. You may hold such an opinion, but where is the objective proof one is guilty of wrongdoing for consuming such meat?

ethics.
animals are God’s creatures. they are not equal to us, but we have been trusted with them. Honestly would would Jesus say about a modern factory farm and slaughterhouse?

 

[fix]

ethics.
animals are God’s creatures. they are not equal to us, but we have been trusted with them. Honestly would would Jesus say about a modern factory farm and slaughterhouse?

We can ask His Church to know just that answer. What has His Church said about consuming meat from such places and if we must avoid it?

 

[mchale]

2000 years ago there were not factory farms. Now there are. and now, we also have acquired the knowledge that meat is not necessary for our diets. Not in the least. Factory farms are highly unethical and it is unethical to needlessly contribute to the suffering they cause just because you like the taste of meat.
You can’t take things out of context the way you are. 2000 years ago it was not unethical for Jesus to eat meat, no one says it was. But today, in our society eating meat is not ethical. 2000 years ago is not relevant.

A couple of thoughts here. The first is that not all meat is obtained via factory farms. You can certainly argue that many current practices are unethical, however it is a mistake to assume that all meat eaten in this country came from factory farms. There are plenty of people who only buy free range meat and poultry (and thus not factory farmed) and others who obtain a substantial amount of meat through hunting (which also is necessary to control animal populations).

Further as I pointed out, even 2500 years ago the Buddha was teaching a vegetarian diet. Certainly the knowledge that one did not need meat to survive existed 2000 years ago and further, Jesus, being God would have known this fact even if it was not known then. Yet Jesus did in fact eat meat. Jesus’s ethical teaching cannot in any way be considered bound by the circumstances of his time; they are universal truths.

You can argue that most of the meat currently on the market today is raised in an unethical manner, you cannot however make a blanket statement that eating meat is in and of itself unethical, at least not if you want to remain consistent with what God did and said in the Bible and the teaching of the Church.

–
Bill

 

[mchale]

Just another thought. For those who are worried about the current methods used to slaughter animals, one could always limit oneself to kosher meat. If the meat meets kosher restrictions, then you know that it has to have met the requirements laid by God in the Old Testament for they way to slaughter an animal.

–
Bill

 

[Celeste88]

Just another thought. For those who are worried about the current methods used to slaughter animals, one could always limit oneself to kosher meat. If the meat meets kosher restrictions, then you know that it has to have met the requirements laid by God in the Old Testament for they way to slaughter an animal.

–
Bill

Are Kosher farm animals treated any better before they are killed? I have never heard of “Kosher” farms but I’ll have to look into it.

 

[Fidelia]

Are Kosher farm animals treated any better before they are killed? I have never heard of “Kosher” farms but I’ll have to look into it.

no they aren’t and are comonly not kiled humanely either.

 

[distracted]

I’m no longer a vegeatarian because of the simple impacticality of the whole thing, but I was for 2.25 years and I can assure you that if you eat right, vegetarians are much healthier. I felt much healthier when I wasn’t eating meat. I weighed less and had more energy. Also: eggs aren’t meat.

i never said eggs were meat… just added them in there. But vegetarianism is NOT healthy. I’ve studied super-centinarians (those who live over 110). NONE was a vegetarian. I think you may have felt better only because your calories were reduced. It IS healthier to eat fewer calories. Actually, at this time, i am fasting; I’ve only eaten one meal in the last 45 hours. I feel pretty good… not even hungry. I think every adult (who isn’t pregnant or what have you…) should fast from solid food for 24 hours once a week or so… I am not going 45 + hours for any reason other than the fact i am not hungry (& also i apreciate feeling closer to God, more spiritual)… Anyway, I know this guy who is 97; he eats meat every day… & he remembers things sometimes better than i do (I’m much younger). I know this guy who is in his 80s. He stopped eating meat, 4 the most part, about 10-15years ago… He has Alzheimer’s. Now he HAS to eat meat because they serve it at the rest home where he lives. He is doing a lot better at the nursing home (w/his Alzheimer’s and his whole attitude, which used 2b pretty bad sometimes… long story). The 97 yr old is not in a nursing home. I know another person, 96, who has eaten pork all her life (mostly ham, still her favorite). She is not in a nursing home either. I’ve never heard of a vegetarian living beyond 80 (a vegan, i should say). A lot of them die of cancer while only 50 or so… I could go on and on… I’ve read many books about nutrition, done “experiments” with this diet & that… Anyway, be blessed…

 

[distracted]

Are Kosher farm animals treated any better before they are killed? I have never heard of “Kosher” farms but I’ll have to look into it.

From what i know about slaughterhouses, they shoot pigs, cut a cow’s throat. OK, it sounds bad, but it brings quick death… so what’s not humane about that?
God told the Israelites to eat the animals they sacrificed. Then there’s the Passover.
Also, Jesus never said (not anywhere in Scrpiture) that we shouldn’t eat meat. It seems to have been no big deal to him so why is it to humans?
As far as cruelty to animals goes, i don’t believe in that…
But when we humans stop being cruel to other humans (abortion, euthanasia, war, etc.), when all children are fed enough and have shelter and all other needs met, THEN maybe i will turn my attention and resources to helping animals…

 

[Celeste88]

From what i know about slaughterhouses, they shoot pigs, cut a cow’s throat. OK, it sounds bad, but it brings quick death… so what’s not humane about that?
God told the Israelites to eat the animals they sacrificed. Then there’s the Passover.
Also, Jesus never said (not anywhere in Scrpiture) that we shouldn’t eat meat. It seems to have been no big deal to him so why is it to humans?
As far as cruelty to animals goes, i don’t believe in that…
But when we humans stop being cruel to other humans (abortion, euthanasia, war, etc.), when all children are fed enough and have shelter and all other needs met, THEN maybe i will turn my attention and resources to helping animals…

I am trying to do both. We will always have war, hunger and the murder of innocent human beings. That has been with us since the beginning of mankind, that is the problem of evil being among us. I do not like to see animals being abused and tortured either. I believe that is also the problem of mens’ hearts being hardened. We shouldn’t allow it. We shouldn’t allow suffering to either humans or animals. Naturally it is important to offer your attention and resources to alleviate human suffering. If God is calling you to do that and work as a doctor, nurse or volunteer in the food pantries or donate to a charity that is a good thing. On the other hand, some may be called to donate to the humane society or volunteer at an animal shelter and that too is a good work.