any vegetarians out here?

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That is true.
No one is saying eating meat in inherently unhealthy. But our bodies were not designed to consume the amount of meat that the average american consumes, and that is where the health issues come from, as well as the disgusting conditions in which the animals are raised and the antibiotics and hormones given to them (antibiotics because they are in such conditions) which you consume in your meat. And it wasn’t in the meat generations ago like it is now. So, yes, meat in unhealthier now than ever.
I meant McDonalds burgers. Yes, i eat whole wheat. But not veyr often… Also, i read a whole book on how in the meat industry, cows are taken off hormones/antibiotics long b4 slaughter time so that it is no longer in their systems…
In India, cows walk around while people die in the streets… Is that God’s will?
 
I have been vegan now for about 4 years. Prior to that I was vegetarian. I have no problems getting the proper nutrients. My diet is right FOR ME. If you choose to eat meat, that is right FOR YOU. I won’t sit and preach about a meat diet being wrong, because for you it isn’t. I choose not to eat meat. I choose to be vegan. And I am not a crazy PETA person. I choose to eat what I do for various reasons.

Our choices are our own. Contramundrum7, tonight when I come home from work, I’ll drink a soy smoothie to your health, if you have a hamburger for me.

Kathy
I agree - It IS healthy 2 b vegan - 4 about a day or two. After awhile, it is NOT healthy. As stated in another post, only those who eat meat live beyond 100. I’ve known or read of a lot of vegetarians who die @ young ages, usually of cancer. Cancer cells (all of us have them, i’ve heard) feed on insulin. Insulin comes from the blood sugar being raised & carbs/sugars raise our blood sugar more than meat/protein/fat (fat doesn’t affect blood sugar at all). OUr bodies r made up of protein, fat & water, therefore meat and animal products r more body-friendly than most (and/or) excess carbs. In (i think) Greenland, there is a village of 3000 where the people eat very few carbs (there aren’t many available there); they mostly eat fish, even whale blubber… There is not ONE case of heart disease in the town… not one… Kind of disproves the “animal fat causes heart disease” argument…
i drink soy also. You can drink it 2 my health but i’ll bet i am healthier than u r. My blood press. averages 100/67, my blood work is excellent… I walk 3 - 4 miles per day, usually (etc)…
Anyway, God bless…
 
That is true.
No one is saying eating meat in inherently unhealthy. But our bodies were not designed to consume the amount of meat that the average american consumes, and that is where the health issues come from, as well as the disgusting conditions in which the animals are raised and the antibiotics and hormones given to them (antibiotics because they are in such conditions) which you consume in your meat. And it wasn’t in the meat generations ago like it is now. So, yes, meat in unhealthier now than ever.
Well we may eat more meat than we are designed to, but vegetarians eat less meat than we are designed to eat as well.

Frankly, I think the jury is still out on what the optimum amount of meat consumption is. Most of the studies linking meat with disease are usually based on consuming saturated fats to excess… and usually in combination with very starchy foods like white rice, potatos and white bread. Our ancestors started out as hunter-gathers and probably meat made up a significant part of their diets, but game animals are all very lean compared to farm animals. They also ate few grains and no refined foods.

Now, some of your points suggest health reasons why it might be better to eat less meat, and it is something we should consider. That being said regarding the ethical issues of eating meat. Yes, we probably could treat animals better, but when it comes down to it, someone can always claim that animals suffer when they are slaughtered. In and of itself, I don’t believe this is a persuasive argument. Humans hunted for centuries and prior to modern firearms, the deaths of the animals were probably far more difficult than those of modern slaughtered animals.

The simple fact of the matter is that God ordains that animals can and should be used as a source of human food and clothing and Jesus said nothing in the Gospel to change that position. To argue that a Christian must, ethically, be a vegetarian is simply, untenable as far as I can see.


Bill
 
My sister was a Seventh day Adventist for a while (she’s also a vegetarian who’s managed to reduce her bp and go off her diabetes medication on her diet) This religious group has been studied because their members have long life spans (they also don’t smoke, drink alcohol or coffee).

Anyway, you assume Jesus ate lamb at Passover. However, I have a hard time envisioning that since it was Jesus who said “I am the Good Shepherd, the Good Shepherd lays down his life for his sheep” . I just can’t imagine seeing Jesus eating the lamb he holds guarding in his arms. 🙂
No, I don’t assume. Jesus Christ was a faithful Jew. All faithful Jews consumed lamb at Passover.
 
My sister was a Seventh day Adventist for a while (she’s also a vegetarian who’s managed to reduce her bp and go off her diabetes medication on her diet) This religious group has been studied because their members have long life spans (they also don’t smoke, drink alcohol or coffee).

Anyway, you assume Jesus ate lamb at Passover. However, I have a hard time envisioning that since it was Jesus who said “I am the Good Shepherd, the Good Shepherd lays down his life for his sheep” . I just can’t imagine seeing Jesus eating the lamb he holds guarding in his arms. 🙂
u can have a hard time envisioning it but Jesus was a Jew and all Jews sacrificed animals and ate them. Also, the 7th Day A. are not as healthy as some people would like to think. I read this one article yrs ago that said something about them having a high incidence of a certain kind of cancer (can’t recal which kind). Also, Catholics, statistically, live longer than Protestants. Now that i think about it, i am sure more Protestants are vegetarians than Cahtolics. Catholics (like me) drink coffee & alcohol (tho usually not to excess). I read somewhere that coffee is the number 1 antioxidant. Alcohol raises HDL and red wine helps the body with insulin-resistance (which increases as we age & leads 2 heart disease, diabetes & other diseases). The woman who (once?) broke the world record for old age (@ 122 yrs), when asked her secret 4 long life, said, “olive oil and port wine”. Aside from the aforementioned benefits of wine, it also de-stresses a person… and stress is probably the biggest killer of all.
Anyway, live long & prosper. God bless…
 
I agree - It IS healthy 2 b vegan - 4 about a day or two. After awhile, it is NOT healthy. As stated in another post, only those who eat meat live beyond 100.
So it has been stated, but stating it and proving it are not the same thing. Besides, the odds of living a century are small enough, that I don’t think it is a reasonable guage of how healthy a diet is. A better measure would be average life expectancy or mortality rates. As I have pointed out, Trappist Monks, who are lacto-ovo vegetarians routinely live into their 80s and 90s. It doesn’t, I think prove, that being a vegetarian increases life span, but it does prove that being a vegetarian is not inconsistent with a long life span.

I am not so sure about vegan diets, mainly because some nutrients are difficult to get without any animal products, but I will defer to those who actually have some expertise in them.
I’ve known or read of a lot of vegetarians who die @ young ages, usually of cancer. Cancer cells (all of us have them, i’ve heard) feed on insulin. Insulin comes from the blood sugar being raised & carbs/sugars raise our blood sugar more than meat/protein/fat (fat doesn’t affect blood sugar at all).
Umm… we need some sugar in our blood. Its a basic source of energy for the body. The enemy there is too much starch and other simple carbs and sugar. A vegetarian diet that favor whole grain foods is not any likelier to cause elevated blood sugar levels than a high protien diet. In addition, vegetarian diets have been shown to lower the risk of certain sorts of cancer.
OUr bodies r made up of protein, fat & water, therefore meat and animal products r more body-friendly than most (and/or) excess carbs.
Irrelevant. Cows bodies are made up of the same things (more or less) as our bodies are, but they are obligate herbivores. If you gave a cow a piece of chicken, it would not eat it and if it did, its system would not be good at digesting it.
In (i think) Greenland, there is a village of 3000 where the people eat very few carbs (there aren’t many available there); they mostly eat fish, even whale blubber… There is not ONE case of heart disease in the town… not one… Kind of disproves the “animal fat causes heart disease” argument…
Maybe, maybe not. Again, you need to document your evidence. In any case, I could point out that Japan has the highest percentage of its population reaching 100 of any nation on Earth. Most of those who made it to that age lived on a diet that consisted mostly of white rice and vegetables accompanied by relatively small amounts of fish (say 3 or 4 ounces of fish a day).
i drink soy also. You can drink it 2 my health but i’ll bet i am healthier than u r. My blood press. averages 100/67, my blood work is excellent… I walk 3 - 4 miles per day, usually (etc)…
Anyway, God bless…
There are healthy and unhealthy people who follow almost any diet. Some of it is good genes, or plain luck.


Bill
 
So it has been stated, but stating it and proving it are not the same thing. Besides, the odds of living a century are small enough, that I don’t think it is a reasonable guage of how healthy a diet is. A better measure would be average life expectancy or mortality rates. As I have pointed out, Trappist Monks, who are lacto-ovo vegetarians routinely live into their 80s and 90s. It doesn’t, I think prove, that being a vegetarian increases life span, but it does prove that being a vegetarian is not inconsistent with a long life span.

I am not so sure about vegan diets, mainly because some nutrients are difficult to get without any animal products, but I will defer to those who actually have some expertise in them.

Umm… we need some sugar in our blood. Its a basic source of energy for the body. The enemy there is too much starch and other simple carbs and sugar. A vegetarian diet that favor whole grain foods is not any likelier to cause elevated blood sugar levels than a high protien diet. In addition, vegetarian diets have been shown to lower the risk of certain sorts of cancer.

Blood sugar is raised every time u eat, no matter whether there is sugar in the food or not. Therefore, eating nothing but meat would raise your blood sugar (yet not excessively as other foods do)… And whole grains ARE more likely 2 cause cancer - if that and other carbs are all u ever eat… And why do you assume i have not studied this? You know what they same about assuming…

Irrelevant. Cows bodies are made up of the same things (more or less) as our bodies are, but they are obligate herbivores. If you gave a cow a piece of chicken, it would not eat it and if it did, its system would not be good at digesting it.

Cows eat insects when they eat grass, so they are not herbivores. No animal in the world is a complete herbivore and few of them are primarily herbivorous…
The Japanese do not eat only fish. Their diet contains other kidns of meat. in Okanawa, an island off Japan, where more people live beyond 100 than anywhere else, they eat a lot of fatty - yes, i said fatty - pork.
Probably part of the reason they live long is because in Okinawa, they don’t treat their old people like they were diseased… People there stay active virtually till the day they die… and they are respected 4 their wisdom. Our country could learn a lot from them…
God bless you… Live long & prosper…

aybe, maybe not. Again, you need to document your evidence. In any case, I could point out that Japan has the highest percentage of its population reaching 100 of any nation on Earth. Most of those who made it to that age lived on a diet that consisted mostly of white rice and vegetables accompanied by relatively small amounts of fish (say 3 or 4 ounces of fish a day).

There are healthy and unhealthy people who follow almost any diet. Some of it is good genes, or plain luck.


Bill
 
Distracted,
  1. Please use the quote feature.
  2. I never assumed you didn’t study this, but it appears you have spent too much time studying fringe research and not looking at the scientific consensus.
  3. Can a whole grain diet increase the rish of certain cancers? Wouldn’t suprise me if it did, but so does a diet very high in red meat and saturated fat.
  4. Ok, it is true that many herbivores obtain a certain amount of animal protien from insects they eat, however, I think it is safe to say that most of their food energy comes from plant matter and they don’t as a rule seek out insects.
  5. If we accept your statement that few animals in the world are primarily herbivores we have a bit of problem with thermodynamics. Energy has to enter the system at some point. Plants get their energy from the sun, animals get it from what they eat. All the energy we derive from food ultimately has to come from plants. Because of the inherent energy losses that occur when eating food, the vast majority of animals need plants to be their primary energy source if the system is going to be sustainable.
  6. Regarding pork consumption in Okinawa, perhaps, but quantify lots. Are we talking 4 ounces a day? !2 ounces? More?
Ultimately, the scientific consensus suggests that a diet rich in whole grains, low in saturated fats, rich in mono-unsaturated fat and vegetables is the key to a healthy diet. Pretty much all the nutrients we need can be found in either an omnivorous diet or in a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. Vegan diets are tricker, but appear to be maintainable.


Bill
 
Distracted,
  1. Please use the quote feature.
  2. I never assumed you didn’t study this, but it appears you have spent too much time studying fringe research and not looking at the scientific consensus.
  3. Can a whole grain diet increase the rish of certain cancers? Wouldn’t suprise me if it did, but so does a diet very high in red meat and saturated fat.
  4. Ok, it is true that many herbivores obtain a certain amount of animal protien from insects they eat, however, I think it is safe to say that most of their food energy comes from plant matter and they don’t as a rule seek out insects.
  5. If we accept your statement that few animals in the world are primarily herbivores we have a bit of problem with thermodynamics. Energy has to enter the system at some point. Plants get their energy from the sun, animals get it from what they eat. All the energy we derive from food ultimately has to come from plants. Because of the inherent energy losses that occur when eating food, the vast majority of animals need plants to be their primary energy source if the system is going to be sustainable.
  6. Regarding pork consumption in Okinawa, perhaps, but quantify lots. Are we talking 4 ounces a day? !2 ounces? More?
Ultimately, the scientific consensus suggests that a diet rich in whole grains, low in saturated fats, rich in mono-unsaturated fat and vegetables is the key to a healthy diet. Pretty much all the nutrients we need can be found in either an omnivorous diet or in a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet. Vegan diets are tricker, but appear to be maintainable.


Bill
 
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distracted:
i read some info put out by researchers: They say that the people with the highest cholesterol levels live longer. They got this info from studying elderly people in nursing homes. They claim that even high LDL is not the bad thing a lot of doctors claim… They did experiments with mice and the ones that had hypercholesterolemia (genetic predisposition to high cholesterol) had 2 be injected with 5 times the amount of this certain toxin (can’t recall name of it) in order to kill them than the mice with normal cholesterol.
I was on the low carb diet years ago. My HDL was 105! 60 is considered high…
Another experiment i read about compared people who ate high carb w/ those who ate high prot/fat. The HDL went down in the ones who ate carbs… & their ratios were then in the danger zone… I’m running out of time, but anyway… I love meat and its healthy and you’re not going to convince me otherwise… Be blessed…
 
The same way you do I bet…I go OUTSIDE in the sun

Kathy
In re: the vitamin D question, aspawloski4th may have been mixing up the nutrients. It is vitamin B12 which is found mostly in animal products, and this is a serious vitamin to get deficient on. The only non-animal sources of B12 are brewer’s yeast and blackstrap molasses, neither of which is a staple in the diet of anyone I know.
 
In re: the vitamin D question, aspawloski4th may have been mixing up the nutrients. It is vitamin B12 which is found mostly in animal products, and this is a serious vitamin to get deficient on. The only non-animal sources of B12 are brewer’s yeast and blackstrap molasses, neither of which is a staple in the diet of anyone I know.
I take B12 in the form of a supplement, i.e.pills

Kathy
 
In re: the vitamin D question, aspawloski4th may have been mixing up the nutrients. It is vitamin B12 which is found mostly in animal products, and this is a serious vitamin to get deficient on. The only non-animal sources of B12 are brewer’s yeast and blackstrap molasses, neither of which is a staple in the diet of anyone I know.
yes it is true for b12 and a few other b vitamins as well, but it is common knowledge that vitamin D is almost exclusively from animal and fish sources. I know there are ways to get those vitamins and be vegatarian, bit to tell you the truth in my case. its too much work and too much fanagling. untill I start to see some heart attacks amungnst my relatives, who a big time meat eaters also, Im not going to worry about it. as long as low bloodsugar causes hunger to be a real hassle Im going to eat my protein! since the begining of my imediate family my dad has always eat lots of meat, for years every saturday he’d have a 40 oz steak for dinner and his cholesterol is double digit and the heart health is in great shape. his mother is 83 and has only double digit cholesterol. its genetics! my mother went on the atkins diet, while she lost a token amount of weight , Ive never seen her feel so well and have so much energy in my life. untill humans are treated better and no more unborn are aborted legally, Im not going to worry about animal rights or suffering.
 
The same way you do I bet…I go OUTSIDE in the sun

Kathy
it is only possbile to get about 1/2 of what you need of vitamin D from the sun on a given sunny day, you need other sourcess to get enough vitamin D.
 
it is only possbile to get about 1/2 of what you need of vitamin D from the sun on a given sunny day, you need other sourcess to get enough vitamin D.
A person can get sufficient Vitamin D by being outside for at least an hour (this from an MD friend) in the sun. If you are someone who doesn’t get “enough” from the sun, then you can get supplements. As for me and mine, I prefer the sun.

Kathy
 
A person can get sufficient Vitamin D by being outside for at least an hour (this from an MD friend) in the sun. If you are someone who doesn’t get “enough” from the sun, then you can get supplements. As for me and mine, I prefer the sun.

Kathy
if your md is a typical md his knowledge of nutrician isnt up to date. Ive read from about a half a dozen different sources your skin gives you half of the vitamin d at the most. an hour in the sun would fry my mom and motherinlaw to a crisp, and isnt possbile this time of year here in grand rapids. and if you get too much sun you end up like my aunt whos skin looks like leather at best. my skin is just average european decent skin and I get burned in a couple hours.
 
if your md is a typical md his knowledge of nutrician isnt up to date. Ive read from about a half a dozen different sources your skin gives you half of the vitamin d at the most. an hour in the sun would fry my mom and motherinlaw to a crisp, and isnt possbile this time of year here in grand rapids. and if you get too much sun you end up like my aunt whos skin looks like leather at best. my skin is just average european decent skin and I get burned in a couple hours.
You mean the sun isn’t shining now in Michigan???
I am not talking about getting sunburned. I am talking about going for a walk. …outside…in the sun …like I do. …everyday even if it’s cold. I would suggest doing some more reading on your part.

Kathy
 
I eat as a vegetarian 180+ days each year, approximately.
*
Michael*
 
I take B12 in the form of a supplement, i.e.pills

Kathy
B12 pills do next to nothing. Injections are the best. I know this because my grandfather is sorely lacking (he’s anemic) in B12 and goes to get these injections from the VA every 2 weeks. The injections are very expensive however.
 
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