any vegetarians out here?

[aspawloski4th]

You mean the sun isn’t shining now in Michigan???
I am not talking about getting sunburned. I am talking about going for a walk. …outside…in the sun …like I do. …everyday even if it’s cold. I would suggest doing some more reading on your part.

Kathy

I have a job where Im in and out of doors constantly because Im a dominos driver. the last thing I want this time of year when Im not working is to be out doors. after working a brainless job its hard to satify my craving for the intellectual by walking out doors. that knowledge I have about vitamin D I read long ago. its cloudy out here most of fall and winter, not to mention windy and frequent lake effect snow. as for sunburns on sunny days in the summer Ive seen my mother get a sunburn in a half an hour before. Im going to vet my vitamin D the easy way and the way that is the least hassle for me, thru meat and milk, and that way guarentees it, rather than chancing it. it leaves me time to nourish my mind.

 

[mchale]

i read some info put out by researchers: They say that the people with the highest cholesterol levels live longer. They got this info from studying elderly people in nursing homes. They claim that even high LDL is not the bad thing a lot of doctors claim… They did experiments with mice and the ones that had hypercholesterolemia (genetic predisposition to high cholesterol) had 2 be injected with 5 times the amount of this certain toxin (can’t recall name of it) in order to kill them than the mice with normal cholesterol.

There is some research supporting the idea that the ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol is more important than the actual levels, but the research I have seen definitly suggests that LDL cannot be raised safely if the HDL is not also raised.

Regarding toxins, well I am not terribly worried about Cholesterol protecting me from injected toxins. Just because it provides protection against one thing does not mean it won’t cause other problems.

I was on the low carb diet years ago. My HDL was 105! 60 is considered high…
Another experiment i read about compared people who ate high carb w/ those who ate high prot/fat. The HDL went down in the ones who ate carbs… & their ratios were then in the danger zone… I’m running out of time, but anyway… I love meat and its healthy and you’re not going to convince me otherwise… Be blessed…

As always the studies have to be looked at in context. High carb diets can be good for you if they are rich in whole grains and green vegetables. If on the other hand, your low carb diet is concentrated on white rice, mashed potatos and white bread, I wouldn’t be suprised if the HDL/LDL levels got screwed up.

Mind, I also never said meat was bad for you. In other posts in this thread I have specifically said that eating meat was consistent with a healthy diet. However, eating a vegetarian diet can be just as consistent.

–
Bill

 

[Katie1723]

I have a job where Im in and out of doors constantly because Im a dominos driver. the last thing I want this time of year when Im not working is to be out doors. after working a brainless job its hard to satify my craving for the intellectual by walking out doors. that knowledge I have about vitamin D I read long ago…

My goodness…you are missing so much by not being out doors. I do understand that when it’s cold, it’s hard to be outside. Might I make a suggestion…next time you get to a doctor, ask him about sunlight and it’s importance. Or perhaps you could read up on SAD ( Seasonal Affective Disorder…caused by low levels of light in the winter).
As to satisfying your “craving for the intellectual”…a visit to Border’s or Barnes & Noble may be in order for you!

Kathy

 

[contramundum7]

simple the vegatarians I know dont live any longer than the reguler peop[le I know. the fast way I was talking about of preparing my dinner is the good ole microwave. things like hot dogs, tv dinners, etc. animal porotein is the most effective way Ive found to keep my hypoglycemia in check and the same way with my mother, you are strangley ssilent on that issue. Ill better if in the future you get as hypglycemic as my mother that vegatariaNISM WILL GO OUT THE WINDOW or you will be eating all hours of the day.

I agree with most of what you say. However, Burger King burgers r not the best… because of the bun, not the meat. This was mentioned in another post… Also mentioned elsewhere, when on the low-carb, high meat diet, HDL goes way up, triglycerides way down… blood pressure goes down… Its the mixing of excess carbs & sugars w/ meat that causes the problems, not meat itself. I am wondering if you have read the other posts about this kind of thing? (posts over #44)
I’m with you - if the Church doesn’t condemn eating meat, why should we? And besides, the laws of nutrition (as it were) dictate that vegetarianism (for more than a few days) is not healthy. God bless…
[/quote]

 

[contramundum7]

There is some research supporting the idea that the ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol is more important than the actual levels, but the research I have seen definitly suggests that LDL cannot be raised safely if the HDL is not also raised.

Regarding toxins, well I am not terribly worried about Cholesterol protecting me from injected toxins. Just because it provides protection against one thing does not mean it won’t cause other problems.

As always the studies have to be looked at in context. High carb diets can be good for you if they are rich in whole grains and green vegetables. If on the other hand, your low carb diet is concentrated on white rice, mashed potatos and white bread, I wouldn’t be suprised if the HDL/LDL levels got screwed up.

Mind, I also never said meat was bad for you. In other posts in this thread I have specifically said that eating meat was consistent with a healthy diet. However, eating a vegetarian diet can be just as consistent.

–
Bill

As stated, new research indicates that even high LDL is not the problem they used to think it was. Endotoxin was the toxin injected in the mice and it is something that we all can get into our systems (can’t recall how, off the top of my head… but will go back 2 the research work & find out). I believe that endotoxins are what the scientists believed causes heart attacks, not high cholesterol levels…
It is the condition of the cholesterol in the veins that matters, not the level of it per se… Oxidized cholesterol (& other things) is what causes clogged arteries. Saturated fat is a natural fat. And from what i’ve read (& experienced), it is one of the healthiest of all fats, if not THE healthiest. Olive oil is also good.
I think the probelm of American’s health has more to do with how much they eat & how often… Too much food of ANY kind has been proven 2b unhealthy. Maybe u heard abaout the mice that lived longer when their food intake was reduced. when reduced by 1/3 the intake of the control group (that group had constant access 2 food), they lived 50% longer!! When reduced even further, they lived even longer…
Anyway, God bless…

 

[aspawloski4th]

I agree with most of what you say. However, Burger King burgers r not the best… because of the bun, not the meat. This was mentioned in another post… Also mentioned elsewhere, when on the low-carb, high meat diet, HDL goes way up, triglycerides way down… blood pressure goes down… Its the mixing of excess carbs & sugars w/ meat that causes the problems, not meat itself. I am wondering if you have read the other posts about this kind of thing? (posts over #44)
I’m with you - if the Church doesn’t condemn eating meat, why should we? And besides, the laws of nutrition (as it were) dictate that vegetarianism (for more than a few days) is not healthy. God bless…

I do agree the bun is the least healthy, although some would say its the dr pepper Im drinking. when I cook aT home I dont have the carbs of the bun, but I cant imagine a hamburger with out the bun. any way thankyou for agreeing!

 

[contramundum7]

I do agree the bun is the least healthy, although some would say its the dr pepper Im drinking. when I cook aT home I dont have the carbs of the bun, but I cant imagine a hamburger with out the bun. any way thankyou for agreeing!

Sometimes i eat hamburgers made with whole wheat bread. It is VERY good. If you are not used to it, it may not seem as good as what u r used 2… but i think u would get used 2 it and get 2 prefer it…
Also, avoid (if u don’t already) hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated fats (trans fats). They are in margarine (yuck), peanut butter (except the natural kind) and many processed foods. U have 2 read the labels. that’s another good thing about meat - no label reading.
White rice, pasta, white flour, white sugar (poison) etc are white becasue they have had all the good stuff (fiber, e tc.) removed… They send your blood sugar skyrocketing… The meat in a burger/sandwich slows down that effect, but as stated b4, those foods aren’t nutritious anyway…
I’m trying 2 lose weight right now. I eat one meal of mixed fruit, one low-carb meal. Then, sometimes, i eat organic chocolate bars in between meals… (have 2 control that addiction because the caffeine gets me bouncing off the walls, almost literally)… If people would just eat what their energy needs required, nothing more, nothing less, they would probably be healthier & happier… God bless…

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Even if you’re a vegetarian, aren’t you still contributing to the unethical farming practices and cruelty when you feed your dog or cat? They have to eat meat, you can’t raise a cat on bean sprouts! The meat has to come from somewhere and most of us prefer to buy something already processed.

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread (but I did make it to post#50 )…I just wanted to address this issue.

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**I am doing my best to switch my family over to hormone and antibiotic free range meat (beef, bison, chicken and eggs, and pork) from a local farm/butcher shop. I am not entirely certain, but I am pretty sure the animals are killed humanely and I know they are treated humanely before death.

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My dog is on a raw food diet and eats meat from this shop as well. So no, having a pet does not contribute to unethical factory farming all the time.( I would never feed kibble again!)

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malia

 

[aspawloski4th]

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread (but I did make it to post#50 )…I just wanted to address this issue.

**I am doing my best to switch my family over to hormone and antibiotic free range meat (beef, bison, chicken and eggs, and pork) from a local farm/butcher shop. I am not entirely certain, but I am pretty sure the animals are killed humanely and I *know ***they are treated humanely before death.

My dog is on a raw food diet and eats meat from this shop as well. So no, having a pet does not contribute to unethical factory farming all the time.( I would never feed kibble again!)

malia

where do you get the money for this expense?? I have to catch the sales at my local neighborhood store to have enough

 

[StJude]

I just wanted to recommend reading The China Study and Eat to Live. I don’t like to call myself a vegeterian or vegan because I eat very differently than most people who claim that title. I changed my eating habits for health reasons and because scientific studies show that the higher the consumption of dairy products (meat, cheese and milk) the higher the rates of cancer, heart disease and diabetes. The key is not to limit all consumption of meat but to consume vegetables, fruits, beans, nuts and seeds in our diet.

I also feel that I honor God by taking care of my body as a temple of God as best as I can using the wisdom He has given me.

I wish all of you excellent health!!!

 

[Biblioassistant]

I eat fish, pork and the occasional hamburger. I love milk and cheese. I love whole wheat bread (haven’t eaten white bread in years) and I love a good salad. Most vegans I’ve met have been too sanctimonious for me to bear and yes, I know not all are like that.
I read a novel by a woman who is a vegan and her main character was a vegan who was contantly berating a poor man who was one of the characters because he ate meat. Stupid guy fell in love with her and at the end they were planning to marry. He’ll be sorry!!

 

[toaslan]

I care most about cruelty-free food. I am willing to pay extra for free-range eggs/chickens/beef, and eat less of it, using other proteins to fill in.

It is immoral to stack cows like firewood, confined to standing in their own manure; it is immoral to shelve and pack living chickens as if they were lightbulbs (what little mind they have just goes insane).

Our food animals should live a natural life, with their feet on the dirt and able to move around with some dignity. Their death should be quick without terrorizing them. Then our use of them can be moral.

 

[contramundum7]

IIt is immoral to stack cows like firewood, confined to standing in their own manure; it is immoral to shelve and pack living chickens as if they were lightbulbs (what little mind they have just goes insane).

.

i don’t believe in cruelty to animals but animals don’t care as much as we humans do about standing in… manure… I mean, they don’t know anything about germs, etc…

 

[contramundum7]

I don’t like to call myself a vegeterian or vegan… I changed my eating habits for health reasons and because scientific studies show that the higher the consumption of dairy products (meat, cheese and milk) the higher the rates of cancer, heart disease and diabetes. The key is not to limit all consumption of meat but to consume vegetables, fruits, beans, nuts and seeds in our diet.

I also feel that I honor God by taking care of my body as a temple of God as best as I can using the wisdom He has given me.

i have read virtually every health book put out and i think they are all a little “off”… (long story why). I think meat is healthy. I think vegetables and fruit are healthy. I think people should eat both, just in a wise manner. The Atkins and those kinds of diets make you get tired of protein food, ditto the veg diets… and none of them ever mentions fasting… Eating too much of one kind of food is never a good idea… (long term). And i beleive you can only lose wt on these diets if you are very over-wt and/or have never been on a diet b4. After awhile on one of these diets, the body gets the picture and adjusts itself so it no longer works… I hate the word DIET… (meaning wt-loss)… while sometimes it may be good to restrict yourself… I think it is un-natural 2 go around hungry 24/7… If you are hungry, the body is telling u it needs food… Even if one is obese, he/she should eat SOMEthing… (just not milkshakes and conventional hamburgers…).
Anyway, just htought i would add my 2 cents…
Also, I don’t believe cheese or ANY natural food causes any disease… it is OVER-eating that causes health problems… or not getting variety… or eating processed foods, unnatural foods (trans fats…)… Foods per se don’t cause disease… Frankly, I wish these so-called scientists (who may in the food industry’s pockets) would knock it off. I say Stick to nature… and eat what the heck you want…(more or less) :whacky:

 

[contramundum7]

**]My dog is on a raw food diet and eats meat from this shop as well. **

This brings up an interesting point. Animals are NOT vegetarians… have you ever tried to feed your dog mashed potatoes? Or a salad

Humans are much higher life forms, obviously, than animals. Our brains are far more complex. Therefore, for a human being to never eat meat, to me, is wrong (meaning not within God’s design).

Birds eat road kill. Even ants eat scrambled eggs (I know, since i dropped a pc. on the floor one day ).
The giraffe is the ONLY animal i know of that doesn’t eat much “animal” protein. I say not much because you know that when it eats leaves in trees, it eats insects also… same thing with cows…

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

I’ve never heard of a child dying because it was fed good meat. (Maybe tainted meat, but that is another issue, and could happen with any food.)

msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/?GT1=9951

“Vegan couple sentenced to life over baby’s death
Malnourished baby was fed soy milk and apple juice, weighed 3 1/2 pounds”

More evidence we were not made to be vegan.

Dan

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Discusions about diets are a lot like religion, they more often than not, get hot and emotional.

I’ve tried many types of diets and a low-carb diet keeps the weight off of me, but it gets boring.

As far as vegetarianism being healthier, its not.

westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html

Tell Eskimos that they should only be eating plants and see what they say.

Also, as far as Buddhist, its not a mandate to be vegetarian. Buddhist living in the mountains of Tibet can’t live on an diet without goat meat. The landscape just doesn’t produce enough plant life for them to survive on.

Even in the Rule of St. Benedict, all he says is that monks are not to eat the flesh of quadrupeds. In other words, fish and poultry are allowed.

The vegetarian diet has been attractive for me at times, because of my love for animals, however, I could never eliminate dairy or eggs, and that contributes to the slaughter of animals anyway.

A vegan diet, of no animal products whatsoever, in my opinion is not healthy. Vitamin B12 deficiency is not good and hard to get out of, once you hit that plateau.

So, for me, I just eat a variety of fresh whole foods. No processed food or transfats. Except I’ll have ice-cream. I’d rather die young than give up ice cream on occasion!

Jim

 

[athansor]

I’m new here, and I’m a vegetarian who is striving to be a vegan. My reasons are first moral, then environmental, then health, finally because I think that fewer meat consumption in the developed world will equal more food in the rest of the world. I’m also very concerned that while they claim there is no mad cow disease in the US, downer cows die regulary from symptoms similar to mad cow, and we just don’t test them.

I’ve read Weston Price’s original work, Dr. Mercola’s anti-veg*n website, and the China Study, Eat to Live, and Mad Cowboy. I’m more convinced by the research in the China Study (Dr. Campbell) than I was by Price’s work.

I’m kind of sad to see some hostility to vegetarianism here. I’m visiting these forums becuase I’ve been feeling called to get back to the Catholic Church, and I’m wondering how accepting the Church (in my area…west Texas) will be of me.

Of course, I’m just a sample of one, but I’m in quite good health.

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

The Catholic Church does not teach that vegatarianism is inherently wrong. What is does teach is that we are to treat our bodies with the respect they deserve. The vast majority of true medical professionals will not recommend a vegan diet, for health reasons. It is not good for the body. We were made by God to be onmivores. The best diet is a balanced one.

The Catholic Church does have problems promoting animals to the level of humans, or perhaps more precisely, demoting humans to the level of animals. Animals are not humans, and are not to be treated as such. They have purposes, and in many cases, that purpose is food.

To not eat an animal that was raised as food, is to waste it, and that would be immoral. Animals are here for us, not the other way around.

Sincerely,

Dan Grelinger

 

[aspawloski4th]

I’m new here, and I’m a vegetarian who is striving to be a vegan. My reasons are first moral, then environmental, then health, finally because I think that fewer meat consumption in the developed world will equal more food in the rest of the world. I’m also very concerned that while they claim there is no mad cow disease in the US, downer cows die regulary from symptoms similar to mad cow, and we just don’t test them.

I’ve read Weston Price’s original work, Dr. Mercola’s anti-veg*n website, and the China Study, Eat to Live, and Mad Cowboy. I’m more convinced by the research in the China Study (Dr. Campbell) than I was by Price’s work.

I’m kind of sad to see some hostility to vegetarianism here. I’m visiting these forums becuase I’ve been feeling called to get back to the Catholic Church, and I’m wondering how accepting the Church (in my area…west Texas) will be of me.

Of course, I’m just a sample of one, but I’m in quite good health.

just wait till you get middle aged and hypoglycemic and have grab something to eat wquickly for lunch because you are starving , and didnt have time to make lunch at home because you were running late, you have that double whopper so you have the wherewithall to keep working your job for the rest of the day!!!