any vegetarians out here?

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just wait till you get middle aged and hypoglycemic and have grab something to eat wquickly for lunch because you are starving , and didnt have time to make lunch at home because you were running late, you have that double whopper so you have the wherewithall to keep working your job for the rest of the day!!!
Actually, I am middle aged, work all day, and keep some healthy snacks in my office. Why would you want to see me go and grab a double=whopper or something like that? I just don’t understand the anti-vegetarian sentiment.
 
I’m new here, and I’m a vegetarian who is striving to be a vegan. My reasons are first moral, then environmental, then health, finally because I think that fewer meat consumption in the developed world will equal more food in the rest of the world. I’m also very concerned that while they claim there is no mad cow disease in the US, downer cows die regulary from symptoms similar to mad cow, and we just don’t test them.

I’ve read Weston Price’s original work, Dr. Mercola’s anti-veg*n website, and the China Study, Eat to Live, and Mad Cowboy. I’m more convinced by the research in the China Study (Dr. Campbell) than I was by Price’s work.

I’m kind of sad to see some hostility to vegetarianism here. I’m visiting these forums becuase I’ve been feeling called to get back to the Catholic Church, and I’m wondering how accepting the Church (in my area…west Texas) will be of me.

Of course, I’m just a sample of one, but I’m in quite good health.
Well, the Trappist and Benedictines are for the most part, vegetarians, so, being a vegetarian in the Catholic Church, you’ll be in good company.

Jim
 
why is a discussion of vegetarianism in its various ramifications on the moral theology forum, where issues of Catholic moral teaching are discussed? there is no Catholic moral teaching on vegetarianism. If you want to discuss the spirituality of fasting in general and abstinence from meat in particular you can do it on the spirituality forum. If you want to discuss vegetarian recipes and strategies you can do in in family life, or back fence. If you want to come here dictating your personal beliefs as moral imperatives you would first have to establish your authority to do so.
 
Because of so many of the good arguements presented here, I’ved decided to JOIN PETA…that’s right…the People for Eatting Tasty Animals.

FID,

You say eating meat is unethical…then you call Christ himself UNETHICAL…Jesus lived all 613 Commandments, the Mosaic Law perfectly…and the Mosaic Law REQUIRED the eating of lamb at passover…not suggested…REQUIRED…and do you know how they were slaughtered? They were kept in stinky pins in the hot sun until their number came up, then they were led BY THE THOUSANDS to the Altar and had their throats slit and were then bled out…all the other little lambs got to watch…so, yes Childese…JESUS ate Lamb…GOD created the human as an OMINVORE…he MEANT for us to eat meat.

If you have issues with people eating TOO MUCH meat…fine…but to say plainly EATING MEAT is unethical is silly.
 
and do you know how they were slaughtered?
Remember, though, that in the Old Testament, humans were sacrificed as well as animals. In fact, Abraham was ready to kill his own son before being stopped. And since part of the ritual was consumption of part of the victim would you have to be classified as a cannibal?
 
I’m new here, and I’m a vegetarian who is striving to be a vegan. My reasons are first moral, then environmental, then health, finally because I think that fewer meat consumption in the developed world will equal more food in the rest of the world.
There is no shortage of food in the world – we can easily feed the entire population. Hunger is due to the distribution of food – often because corrupt governments and warring tribes use hunger as a weapon.
 
So, we know that Jesus drank wine, but if someone came here and said they abstained from drinking because of moral and/or ethical reasons, would people say things like they say about meat eating or abstaining from meat eating, ridicule groups that promote non-drinking, etc?

I’m just suprised, because I came to these forums for support as a vegetarian who was hoping to ‘return home’ to the Catholic faith, but it seems that there are people who believe that vegetarianism is something to ridicule or that veg*ns don’t belong in the faith.

I’m not hostile to meat eaters, my husband still eats meat on occasion, and I’ll even fix him some meals. My son eats an omni diet, and I hope that when he gets older he will consider a veg*n diet but that’s his choice.

As far as the famine issues and greenhouse gas issues, I do have data to support my beliefs. I think that there are a lot of politics involved with food distribution, and those issues are important and need to be addressed. However, the efficeincy (calories provided by eating the meat produced from one cow divided by calories consumed by that cow) is much less than one. If all beef, for instance, was grass-fed and turned out to graze on areas that couldn’t be farmed, the impact would be minimized and the efficiency would be increased, however, there is not enough grazing area to support the world at the level of meat consumption that the US, for instance, enjoys. There are also environmental issues with loss of rainforest due to clearing land in Brazil for grazing of cattle.

I’m sorry for bumping this thread up. When I joined I just did a search on vegetarian so that I could see if I could find a community here to get involved with, and was just a bit suprised by the responses here. I live in an area that is pretty hostile to veg*ns, and if I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard that vegetarian = bad hunter or PETA stands for people eating tasty animals or if God wanted us to be veg, He wouldn’t have made animals from meat, or …well you get the picture.
 
I would like to be but never quite managed the transition.

Only a ffew hours ago, made myself a duck-soup then decided to bin it as it appeared disgusting to eat that of flesh :mad:
 
I made the transition from vegetarian to vegan a few years ago.
I don’t lecture anyone about what is right/wrong about any diet. For me being vegan works.

Kathy
 
I would be interested to know if the stater of this post is pro-life for babies as well as animals. I have always respected the personal beliefs, of vegans, although I choose to eat meat, but oddly, I can’t find one who isn’t for abortion "rights " , and I always ask, because I find it odd, that someone could be so concerned for animals and then be for abortion, but everytime I ask, they say they are for "animal Rights, and "womens rights "They are for abortion, crueler than anything
 
I would be interested to know if the stater of this post is pro-life for babies as well as animals. I have always respected the personal beliefs, of vegans, although I choose to eat meat, but oddly, I can’t find one who isn’t for abortion "rights " , and I always ask, because I find it odd, that someone could be so concerned for animals and then be for abortion, but everytime I ask, they say they are for "animal Rights, and "womens rights "They are for abortion, crueler than anything
Well, I’m not the post starter, just the post reviver. I’m not for abortion, and I’ve actually had the opportunity, as a unwed pregnant teen many years ago, to place a baby for adoption. I’m also strongly against the death penalty.
 
I have no problem with people wanting to be vegetarians. I’ve been drawn to it myself, but have been unsuccessful at it.
For those who are, great.

However, the idea that its not moral to eat meat, is in itself an immoral statement. Its telling people who live in climates where eating meat is the only possible means to survive, that they are immoral.

The fact is, there is no culture in the history of human kind, that was purely vegetarian. Even cultures in India that people claim to be vegetarian, ended up eating insects with their fruits and vegetables.

In the spiritual perspective, the Rule of St. Benedict, only specifies that a monk should abstain from the eating of the flesh of quadrupeds. In other words, fish, chicken, ducks and turkey were allowed. Also, in the Rule, it specifies that those who are sick or elderly, should eat meat.

But the Rule of St. Benedict, or even the Rule of St. Albert, who specified no eating of meat at all, had nothing to do with the morality or immorality of eating meat, nor the health aspects of it. Their rule was in the spirit of self-denial and penance, nothing more.

Jim
 
So, we know that Jesus drank wine, but if someone came here and said they abstained from drinking because of moral and/or ethical reasons, would people say things like they say about meat eating or abstaining from meat eating, ridicule groups that promote non-drinking, etc?
Yes – they would.

There are groups who deny Jesus drank wine, and claim He only drank “grape juice.” From time to time one of those people will put in an appearence here, with elaborate arguments to “prove” their theory, and they will be quickly rebutted.
 
As far as the famine issues and greenhouse gas issues, I do have data to support my beliefs. I think that there are a lot of politics involved with food distribution, and those issues are important and need to be addressed. However, the efficeincy (calories provided by eating the meat produced from one cow divided by calories consumed by that cow) is much less than one. If all beef, for instance, was grass-fed and turned out to graze on areas that couldn’t be farmed, the impact would be minimized and the efficiency would be increased, however, there is not enough grazing area to support the world at the level of meat consumption that the US, for instance, enjoys. There are also environmental issues with loss of rainforest due to clearing land in Brazil for grazing of cattle.

I’m sorry for bumping this thread up. When I joined I just did a search on vegetarian so that I could see if I could find a community here to get involved with, and was just a bit suprised by the responses here. I live in an area that is pretty hostile to veg*ns, and if I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard that vegetarian = bad hunter or PETA stands for people eating tasty animals or if God wanted us to be veg, He wouldn’t have made animals from meat, or …well you get the picture.
As you’ve noted, there are many economic issues involved. However, consider this: it is very costly to feed and water the animals necessary to produce food. If everyone in the world suddenly decided to go vegetarian, young cattle would be slaughted. So would young pigs, chicken, etc. At least with the high demand for beef et al, these animals will be living a healthy (and fattening) life. 🙂
 
I have no problem with people wanting to be vegetarians. I’ve been drawn to it myself, but have been unsuccessful at it.
For those who are, great.

However, the idea that its not moral to eat meat, is in itself an immoral statement. Its telling people who live in climates where eating meat is the only possible means to survive, that they are immoral.

The fact is, there is no culture in the history of human kind, that was purely vegetarian. Even cultures in India that people claim to be vegetarian, ended up eating insects with their fruits and vegetables.

In the spiritual perspective, the Rule of St. Benedict, only specifies that a monk should abstain from the eating of the flesh of quadrupeds. In other words, fish, chicken, ducks and turkey were allowed. Also, in the Rule, it specifies that those who are sick or elderly, should eat meat.

But the Rule of St. Benedict, or even the Rule of St. Albert, who specified no eating of meat at all, had nothing to do with the morality or immorality of eating meat, nor the health aspects of it. Their rule was in the spirit of self-denial and penance, nothing more.

Jim
While I certainly agree that there are places still inhabited by people today where not eating meat would be almost impossible (and I pass no judgement on people who eat meat in those or any circumstances), I don’t think that in today’s world, the decision to eat or not eat meat is completely morally neutral. Things like factory farming, especially cruel methods of production to produce specialty foods like veil and fois gras, environmental issues, the use of bovine growth hormones, etc were not issues in the time of Jesus, but are part of the package for most meat eaters in westernized counties. You can certainly be a meat eater while not supporting these things by avoiding certain foods, buying local or organic, raising your own cows and chickens, etc.

So, I would say that I wouldn’t call anyone immoral for eating meat, but I think that supporting or turning a blind eye to things that go on in the modern meat industry isn’t, in my mind, a morally neutral decision.

I also agree that it is impossible to be a total vegan. Just walking around today, I probably stepped on a few ants, perhaps inhaled a gnat, and later I sat for a bit on a leather sofa. For me, I just focus on my intent. I can’t swerve to miss a bug, and in many cases, I’ve hit larger animals with my car instead of risking an accident by swerving. Since I can survive and be healthy without eating meat, there is no reason in my mind for me to eat it. Others may have systems that require meat for optimal health, so they do what they have to do.

It is interesting to me to hear about the monastic rules that go into the eating of meat. Are there any current monastaries that follow the Rule of St. Albert?
 
As you’ve noted, there are many economic issues involved. However, consider this: it is very costly to feed and water the animals necessary to produce food. If everyone in the world suddenly decided to go vegetarian, young cattle would be slaughted. So would young pigs, chicken, etc. At least with the high demand for beef et al, these animals will be living a healthy (and fattening) life. 🙂
That’s true! I don’t think that it would ever happen suddenly, though. I would like to think that as time goes on, people will eat less and less meat, and it would be a gradual decline.
 
Yes – they would.

There are groups who deny Jesus drank wine, and claim He only drank “grape juice.” From time to time one of those people will put in an appearence here, with elaborate arguments to “prove” their theory, and they will be quickly rebutted.
I think that is something different. I am certainly not trying to ‘prove’ that Jesus didn’t eat meat, and if I came here trying to say something like the fish Jesus ate was actually made out of tofu (well, that’s one way to stretch your 2 fish to feed a multitude), I would expected to be rebutted (but hopefully not ridiculed).
 
So, we know that Jesus drank wine, but if someone came here and said they abstained from drinking because of moral and/or ethical reasons, would people say things like they say about meat eating or abstaining from meat eating, ridicule groups that promote non-drinking, etc?
Absolutely, they’d get the same treatment from me as the leaf snappers do.😛 Seriously though, if someone came here saying it was unethical to drink, my response would be the same.
 
While I certainly agree that there are places still inhabited by people today where not eating meat would be almost impossible (and I pass no judgement on people who eat meat in those or any circumstances), I don’t think that in today’s world, the decision to eat or not eat meat is completely morally neutral. Things like factory farming, especially cruel methods of production to produce specialty foods like veil and fois gras, environmental issues, the use of bovine growth hormones, etc were not issues in the time of Jesus, but are part of the package for most meat eaters in westernized counties. You can certainly be a meat eater while not supporting these things by avoiding certain foods, buying local or organic, raising your own cows and chickens, etc.

So, I would say that I wouldn’t call anyone immoral for eating meat, but I think that supporting or turning a blind eye to things that go on in the modern meat industry isn’t, in my mind, a morally neutral decision.

I also agree that it is impossible to be a total vegan. Just walking around today, I probably stepped on a few ants, perhaps inhaled a gnat, and later I sat for a bit on a leather sofa. For me, I just focus on my intent. I can’t swerve to miss a bug, and in many cases, I’ve hit larger animals with my car instead of risking an accident by swerving. Since I can survive and be healthy without eating meat, there is no reason in my mind for me to eat it. Others may have systems that require meat for optimal health, so they do what they have to do.

It is interesting to me to hear about the monastic rules that go into the eating of meat. Are there any current monastaries that follow the Rule of St. Albert?
Well so-called factory farming merely means poor farming practice, not that eating meat is bad. However, most of the arguments are often from people, who couldn’t stand to see an animal slaughtered, period. A regular slaughterhouse to them, is immoral.

Also, it should be noted that only 1/3 of the earth, is suitable for growing crops for human consumption. Therefore, if governments banned the consumption of meat, we would go immediately into a global famine.

The Carmelites follow the Rule of St. Albert, but have modified parts of it, where the eating of meat varies. The cloistered monasteries don’t eat meat. They’ve also removed the part where a friar could own two mules. 🙂

Jim
 
The Carmelites follow the Rule of St. Albert, but have modified parts of it, where the eating of meat varies. The cloistered monasteries don’t eat meat. They’ve also removed the part where a friar could own two mules. 🙂
In fear, no doubt, that he might eat one of them.😛
 
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