any vegetarians out here?

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Also, it should be noted that only 1/3 of the earth, is suitable for growing crops for human consumption. Therefore, if governments banned the consumption of meat, we would go immediately into a global famine.
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I would like to know the source of this statistic. But even if true, no offense, but it could be misleading. The U.S. alone has the capacity to grow enough crops to feed three times the world’s population, or at least that’s what I read several years ago. The problem is setting the right price for growing and distribution. Up to a few years ago, the government was actually paying the farmers not to grow crops for fear of falling prices.

Also, where would the animals get the crops if humans couldn’t?

Oh, one other thing. One thing people on this thread tend to forget (or just plain don’t know) that humans, unlike many of their pets, are not carniverous. In fact, their pets require more meat than they do. I don’t have all the answers but that’s certainly something to think about.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well so-called factory farming merely means poor farming practice, not that eating meat is bad. However, most of the arguments are often from people, who couldn’t stand to see an animal slaughtered, period. A regular slaughterhouse to them, is immoral.

Also, it should be noted that only 1/3 of the earth, is suitable for growing crops for human consumption. Therefore, if governments banned the consumption of meat, we would go immediately into a global famine.

The Carmelites follow the Rule of St. Albert, but have modified parts of it, where the eating of meat varies. The cloistered monasteries don’t eat meat. They’ve also removed the part where a friar could own two mules. 🙂

Jim
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I’ll have to respectfully disagree about the relation of meat consumption to famine. If you’re curious, a good source of data on this sort of stuff is from a book called, believe it or not, Mad Cowboy, by Lyman. It’s a good read for this discussion because he doesn’t consider the slaughtering of animals ‘immoral’, although he is a vegan. I’ve also lived for most of my life in an area that isn’t really suitable for growing crops, but has been used for cattle grazing for about 200 years. It takes about 100 acres of land to feed one cow. In places where food crops grow well, cattle can also graze on less acreage, of course, but in harsher or desert climates, to economically grow beef requires feeding soy, grain, corn and other crops that could be directly used for human consumption.

Now, I should probably remember this, but do Carmelite nuns also follow the Rule of St. Albert? When I was growing up we attended a chapel at a Carmelite convent, and I was fascinated by them (and thier vow of silence). I think it was due to their example that I told everyone when I was growing up that I wanted to be a nun. The Carmelites had a fabulous garden, and I think they grew most of their own food.
 
Hello!
I posted earlier, I think…
LoL! Well, after a bout of limited income in which I was receiving food via my in-laws (which included meats of varying kinds), DH, DD and I are returning to a vegan diet. Not just vegan, but mostly raw as well.
I feel better, lighter and sharper when I don’t consume meat. I get sick less. My daughter is not as moody. DH focuses better.
There are too many studies out there that show that a mostly veggie diet is more healthful that I cannot ignore it.
 
I am a vegetarian.
Like someone else said before too: I just don’t like the thought of animals being killed.
I couldn’t kill them. And so I don’t want to have other people have to do it for me.

In Romans 14 it says we shouldn’t judge one another, those who eat meat and those who don’t.

Kathrin
 
BobP123 said:
I would like to know the source of this statistic.
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Myth #1: Meat consumption contributes to famine and depletes the Earth’s natural resources.
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Some vegetarians have claimed that livestock require pasturage that could be used to farm grains to feed starving people in Third World countries. It is also claimed that feeding animals contributes to world hunger because livestock are eating foods that could go to feed humans. The solution to world hunger, therefore, is for people to become vegetarians. These arguments are illogical and simplistic.
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The first argument ignores the fact that about 2/3 of our Earth’s dry land is unsuitable for farming. It is primarily the open range, desert and mountainous areas that provide food to grazing animals and that land is currently being put to good use (1).
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westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html
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Jim
 
I think that assumes that the desert land and mountainous land is really being put to “good use” by using it all for cattle grazing. It also assumes that the world eats mainly grass-fed beef. If the world switched to grass fed beef, using careful grazing techniques to prevent desertification, we would produce much less beef than we do now.

I think that, however, every group discussion of the health and ethical issues around a vegn diet eventually comes down to a vegns vs. WAPF/NT argument (the rest of the people probably drop out before it gets there :D) I personally believe that the preponderance of the evidence comes down on the side of the veg*n diet, but I don’t want this to turn into a linkfest. I did read Weston Price’s work a few months ago to see what he really had to say, and I’d suggest if anyone is interested, that the China Study (for health issues) or Mad Cowboy (for environmental issues) are good reads from the other side. Neither book takes a position on the morality of killing animals for food.

Anyway, however a person eats, I think it’s never a bad idea to think about where the food comes from, the impact of consuming the food on the environment, and the impact on your health.
 
The first argument ignores the fact that about 2/3 of our Earth’s dry land is unsuitable for farming. It is primarily the open range, desert and mountainous areas that provide food to grazing animals and that land is currently being put to good use.
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Well, if the U.S. alone can produce enough grain for three times the world population, given the right price, I say we should be okay for awhile.

As for dry land, let’s not forget what’s underneath most of the earth surface. Lots of edible seaweed and other artery-friendly ocean food. And fish for those who prefer that instead of meat once in a while.
 
water said:
I was wondering if there are any Christians who are vegetarians believing that eating meat is wrong?

Thanks!
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😃 I don’t know, but according to the bible your faith is weak if you eat only vegetables.

[SIGN]Romans 14:2
One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.[/SIGN]
 
unacanta said:
😃 I don’t know, but according to the bible your faith is weak if you eat only vegetables.

[SIGN]Romans 14:2
One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.[/SIGN]
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During the Roman Civil War that took place after Caesar crossed the Rubicon, Cato, Caesar’s arch-enemy found himself in North Africa with a small army. There was a much larger army of Caesar’s enemies some 1,800 miles away. Unable to travel by sea, Cato marched across North Africa.

The problem was how to feed the men on the march. Cato gathered up all the cattle, sheep and goats he could find and drove them along with the army. The army was on a 100% meat diet for the entire march.

But Romans – especially the lower classes, who made up the mass of the legionaries – normally ate very little meat. They mostly ate bread. The sudden switch to all meat had severe gastronmic effects – and Cato’s army left a trail across North Africa.😃
 
The sudden switch to all meat had severe gastronmic effects – and Cato’s army left a trail across North Africa.😃
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And thus global warming began!😃 😃
 
vern_humphrey said:
During the Roman Civil War that took place after Caesar crossed the Rubicon, Cato, Caesar’s arch-enemy found himself in North Africa with a small army. There was a much larger army of Caesar’s enemies some 1,800 miles away. Unable to travel by sea, Cato marched across North Africa.

The problem was how to feed the men on the march. Cato gathered up all the cattle, sheep and goats he could find and drove them along with the army. The army was on a 100% meat diet for the entire march.

But Romans – especially the lower classes, who made up the mass of the legionaries – normally ate very little meat. They mostly ate bread. The sudden switch to all meat had severe gastronmic effects – and Cato’s army left a trail across North Africa.😃
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😃 After eating at some of the fast food restaurants, I understand the problems Cato’s army endured. He,he,he…they had cattle,sheep and goats, I have noticed an absence of stray cats and dogs around said restaurants!!

Blessings,
Len
 
athansor said:
I just don’t understand the anti-vegetarian sentiment.
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I understand it. It is very unhealthy to be a vegan vegetarian. I have never known or heard of one that lived beyond the age of 70. In fact, most of them die in their 50s… of cancer…(etc).

OUr bodies are made up mostly of water, protein and fat, so it stands to reason that those things would be the least “stressful” to the body. I don’t eat a lot of actual meat (once a week?) but i eat a lot of free-range chicken eggs… and cheese. I need to eat more fish, but anyway…

If God wanted us to be vegans, he wouldn’t have told the Jews to sacrifice and consume animals…
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Hello!
DH, DD and I are returning to a vegan diet. Not just vegan, but mostly raw as well.
I feel better, lighter and sharper when I don’t consume meat.
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You may feel better for awhile, but it won’t last and if you continue for many years on a vegan diet, you will endanger your health. I know this because of books but also because of personal experience.
I’ve never known or heard of a vegan who lived beyond the age of 70. All centenarians and super-centenarians ate meat…
.
There are too many studies out there that show that a mostly veggie diet is more healthful that I cannot ignore it.
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There are at least an equal # of studies showing that eating meat is healthy… The above info about centenarians proves this… Also interesting to note is the new study that found that of nursing home residents, the ones w/ the higher cholesterol levels lived longest… (cholesterol levels rise when animal fat is consumed… although other things raise chol levels also).
I know a 96 yr old woman whose favorite meat is pork (ham). She just doesn’t eat a lot… and THAT is what is most important in longevity - not eating too much. I also know a man who is 99 - he eats meat all the time. All the super-centenarians I’ve studied ate meat.
 
Sure said:
If God didn’t want us to eat animals, he wouldn’t have made them out of meat!
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WELL… we humans are made out of meat also, and that doesn’t mean God wanted us to eat one another…:hmmm:
 
Kathrin said:
WELL… we humans are made out of meat also, and that doesn’t mean God wanted us to eat one another…:hmmm:
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No, because men are animals (pertaining to the natural order) that have been elevated by the existence of an immortal soul that makes us human beings (pertaining to the moral order). So, yes we are made of meat, but no we cannot be consumed because we have been “elevated” by God to his image and likeness through our souls. The rest of the animal kingdom has not been so elevated and therefore may be used and consumed in a responsible manner.
 
distracted said:
You may feel better for awhile, but it won’t last and if you continue for many years on a vegan diet, you will endanger your health. I know this because of books but also because of personal experience.
I’ve never known or heard of a vegan who lived beyond the age of 70. All centenarians and super-centenarians ate meat…

There are at least an equal # of studies showing that eating meat is healthy… The above info about centenarians proves this… Also interesting to note is the new study that found that of nursing home residents, the ones w/ the higher cholesterol levels lived longest… (cholesterol levels rise when animal fat is consumed… although other things raise chol levels also).
I know a 96 yr old woman whose favorite meat is pork (ham). She just doesn’t eat a lot… and THAT is what is most important in longevity - not eating too much. I also know a man who is 99 - he eats meat all the time. All the super-centenarians I’ve studied ate meat.
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Well, (from Hindu Business online) there’s this:

We were headed to the villages of Dah and Beema (pronounced Beama) in Leh district and Garkun and Darchik in Kargil district, and the intention was to spend a week studying the secret lives of a tribe of pure Aryans.
…]
There are about 1,000 descendants of the Aryan tribes and they live scattered around Gilgit, Hunza, Kargil and Leh. Being nature worshippers, they celebrate the Bononah (nature) festival and are strict vegans, which means they are not only strictly vegetarian but also don’t consume milk or milk products
…]
The few thousand Brok-pa Aryans have over 5,000 years lived in these hostile terrain at 15,000 ft altitude, subsisting on a vegan diet. Music and dance are a way of life for them. Both men and women wear colourful costume, decorating their hair with flowers, and are full of joi de vivre. They live in harmony with nature, and are cheerful and stress-free despite living in small rock shelters. They trek long distances.
…]
The weather in September is pleasantly cold, though temperatures in January can plummet to -20 degrees Celsius. There are an unusually large number of Aryans above 70 years. Many are active even at 90.
…]

Not knowing anyone who is a vegan who has lived past a certain age certainly doesn’t prove that a vegan diet is bad for you. Also, all research is not equal. While authors may cite a lot of research articles, it is worth looking at how many are peer reviewed. There is a a good article that just does the bean counting on the reserach for each side, and the articles promoting a vegetarian or vegan diet do better as far as quality of journals and peer review go.

But, even if you are convinced that eating meat is the healthier option, does that really make it acceptable to ridicule vegetarians, or make them feel unwelcome? Is it OK to keep throwing out the same tired vegetarian jokes? (God made animals out of meat…hahaha…vegetarian means poor hunter…etc.)

When a new person comes to a Church function, who is considering RCIA, getting involved with the parish, or just wants to learn more about the Catholic faith, and they mention that they are a veg*n, would you welcome them and be accomidating to their dietary needs? Or, would you tell them that they are wrong, ridicule them, and suggest that they don’t belong?

There are a lot of people who visit these forums to learn more about the Catholic faith. Is this the impression that you want them to take away?
 
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