Any way to save the Catholic Church in Europe?

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FranciscoN2001

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Even the most traditional of Catholic countries like France have terribly high declining rates of Catholicism. It seems people are pushing away the Good News of Christ in favor of secularism. This case is really sad because the Catholic Church is essentially the foundation of European civilization and now there’s only a few countries left that even have over 50% of the population claiming to be Catholic, let alone the percentages of regular Mass attendance
 
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A spiritual vacuum can’t last forever. Eventually, people will find that consumerism and sex alone don’t lead to fulfillment.

Might take a couple centuries for the wheels to come off, though.
 
The sex abuse scandals have been devastating and the current French Cardinal trial isn’t helping. People can only take so much.
 
Even the most traditional of Catholic countries like France have terribly high declining rates of Catholicism. It seems people are pushing away the Good News of Christ in favor of secularism. This case is really sad because the Catholic Church is essentially the foundation of European civilization and now there’s only a few countries left that even have over 50% of the population claiming to be Catholic, let alone the percentages of regular Mass attendance
Only 47% of French people queried answer that adultery is morally unacceptable. That is the lowest level of objection in the survey. For comparison, the U.S. is 84%.

Pew Research

 
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If one looks at the lingering attitudes of the South and the North and realizes that much of it is driven by institutional memory (for lack of a better term), then one might be able to move from that to contemplating the baggage of memory which Europe carries.

It has been too many decades since I sat through a course in the early history of Europe. However, once the Romans (who ruled at lest as far as Britain) fell apart as a cohesive force of law and order, it was a short distance back to the tribalism to which the Romans had put a cap upon. At that point, the only pervasive source of some sense of unity was the Church, and it was soon thrust into more than just evangelization.
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As time went onl the Church obtained authority over more and more land and became more and more involved in civil (and not so civil) affairs. And as power ebbed and flowed, and coalesced in various areas, the Church became more and more intertwined in local, regional and “national” politics.

And in that politics, the princes and kings, queens and assorted powers sought to influence the Church, including having at least a say, if not almost outright dictatorial powers as to who would become bishop. The involvement in world affairs in Europe and the extensive land holdings Pretty much came to an end starting with Napoleon and ending with the Italian states revolt against the Church in the mid to late 1800’s. I would suspect that were someone to research documents, there might be seen a thread of why Vatican 1 was called, as the Church sought to look within itself and clarify the position and relationships between the Pope and the bishops. Vatican 1 took a break after dealing with the authority of the Pope (which was hotly contested during the Council) and never got back to determine the roll of the bishops, due to another nasty little tiff. That waited until Vatican 2 to finish the matters started.

Personally, I would suggest that the French Revolution had a great deal to do with the seeding of secularism, although others may source it elsewhere. And certainly the issues which started well before Luther filed his theses on the church door, and culminated with the Protestant revolution had much to do with secular issues as well as religious arguments; the Church was easily perceived as having its tentacles into all aspects of society, certainly well beyond the matters of faith and morals.

It would be nice if all people were critical thinkers; but the vast majority are not, and it is a part of human nature to demand simple answers for complex issues. Matters of Church and State are no less subject to this; and over centuries the Church rightly or wrongly provided plenty of fodder for simple minds and devious minds to think alike and see the Church as the enemy of freedom, person hood, statehood, and identity.
 
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And as materialism, hedonism, secularism, and the concupiscence of the human person became more and more widespread, the Church became more and more irrelevant to daily life.

The short of it is that in the minds of all too many, the Church is seen as caught up somewhere in a time warp of several centuries ago. Europe is not without its conservatives, but it appears that at least in some areas the liberals have become the de facto power. And less I offend anyone, I find all too many liberals here in America to be true believers of their social and moral philosophy and incapable of looking beyond their constructs to see the unintended results. Europe suffers even more to the emotionally driven disillusion of reality (examine, for instance, the downhill slope in the Netherlands of physician assisted euthanasia, now being administered not because the patient desires it, but because of the decision of “quality of life” or whatever the excuse may be the doctors executing patients are using).

Asking why Europe is so enthralled with secularism (and the rest of the ‘isms’ directing their choices) is a bit like asking why and how a re-puked version of Marxism has taken Venezuela down the economic toilet. People become enthralled with their own version of reality even without the aid of drugs and any questioning of their direction becomes a threat to their person-hood.

Please note (before pulling the trigger and shooting at me): I am in no way anti Church, or Church history. The old saying that when one is up to one’s arse in alligators, it is hard to remember that the original objective was to drain the swamp. It is easy to sit in the armchair and critique the decision of the past. It is another matter altogether to make those decision, and many of the decisions which were made over the centuries were made in good faith and with the best of intent. Further, the Church did a tremendous amount of good in its efforts to keep Europe from descending so far into tribalism as it appeared repeatedly to be intent to do.

I know of no even-handed study of history that is not polemical, and there not only is material indicating mis-steps the church made, but also a tendency to either sweep anything of a foul odor under the rug, or to treat all as at best miscreants. All historians have their biases, and the better ones know them and try to keep them out of the accounting. We have a history of saints and scoundrels sitting upon the papal throne, and the same for the multitude of bishops ensconced on the cathedra. As we have seen with the sexual abuse scandal, the choices made, often driven by a fear of creating scandal have delivered a scandal even greater than anticipated. It is all too easy to presume evil intent on the bishops’ part, when at least some of it was simply stupid decision making. The same can go for much of the past history of Europe. Not all, but to all too many people in Europe, they presume and therefore see only bad, evil intent and manipulation.
 
Pope St. John Paul II warned in a vision he had in 1993 Europe would eventually become a basement of relics and cobwebs, overrun by Islam. He wasn’t off the mark, we are seeing the fulfilment of his vision today.

Europe is a lost cause right now.

In my opinion the best hope would be for Russia to come back into communion with Rome. Orthodox Christianity is a huge part of their culture and identity. Imagine if the Russian Orthodox Church finally reunited with Rome. If Russia came back into communion with Rome they would become the largest Catholic military power in the world, and we haven’t had that in many decades.

On the other side of the coin if this were to happen it would just give the United States government another reason to look upon Catholicism with great suspicion. (As you know relations between the US and Russia aren’t too cozy right now) And let’s be honest, the USA isn’t going to defend Christianity, let alone Catholicism before the world (the US is far too secular with disjointed Protestant religions). We need Russia to convert!

I have faith because I know in the end Mary’s Immaculate Heart will triumph!
 
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Sure.

If the Church eased off of positions that didn’t also enjoy robust secular analogues, then the conflicts with secularism that leads so many away would diminish, reducing defectors.

To be sure, by “ease off”, I’m not suggesting abandonment or revision. Just redirecting emphasis into common ground.
 
Catholics and Orthodox are both in a similar situation (although more severe for Catholics)
The East and West may not reunite, but it the secularists were to start persecuting Christians, they would ally with each other, that’s for sure
 
Based on my very religious Dutch Grandparents (who lived as young adults through WW ll) and my extended family there I think the societal post war upheaval had some part to play. It was a time of rejecting the past and moving into the future and religion was part of the past. The US came out feeling proud and justified about its society. This along with communism put America in a sort of Religious Golden Age.
 
I totally agree! We need to pick up our crosses and follow the Lord. Obedience, prayers, sacrifices and us allowing the Lord to sanctify us will increase the Light of Jesus in the Church, the Body of Christ…and then the darkness will recede.

I need to be more aware that I need to do that better every day.
 
Religion is the past and the future. God will obviously precede and proceed man
 
I’ve been to Ireland several times. My father and grandparents were Irish. I don’t know about mainland Europe, but I have a pretty good idea about Ireland.

First Ireland will never become Protestant or Muslim. They will either be Catholic…or something like Pagan (I say the Pagan thing half jokingly). This nature of the people. I believe they want to be Catholic. Yes there are several specific things you can do in Ireland. If you do these things, I think you’d see a Catholic revival in about 10 to 15 years.
  1. In the past 100 years Ireland was a poor country and the Catholic church had massive control. As a result, abuse hit Ireland hard. While I don’t believe this is entirely the church’s fault, the Catholic church must have clear measures to prevent, detect, and punish abuse…
  2. The Catholic church needs to stay out of government and trying to run society. There cannot even be a faint echo of the Magdalene laundries.
  3. End mandatory priestly celibacy. The value of celibacy is still debated in the US. This is just not the case in Ireland. Almost nobody agrees with mandatory celibacy in Ireland.
If the church does these things, I think Catholicism will again flourish at least in Ireland.
 
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In my opinion the best hope would be for Russia to come back into communion with Rome.
Well, the Russian Orthodox Church is experiencing tremendous growth with the support of President Vladimir Putin. More than 200 churches have been opened in the Moscow region alone while he has been president. Unlike in Europe and America, where some Roman Catholic Churches have been torn down or handed over to Muslims to be used as mosques. Russia has passed laws limiting the distribution of homosexual propaganda to children. At the same time, the Americans have placed sanctions on Russia which has the effect of degrading their economy and lowering their standard of living.
A reunion of the Russian Orthodox church with the Roman Catholic Church takes two partners and it is not just a case of the Russian Orthodox Church “coming back” to the Roman Church. It is also dependent on the Roman Catholic Church to recognize the value of compromising with the Russian Orthodox Church and understanding why the Russian Orthodox Church is growing with the support of President Putin, while some Roman Catholic Churches are being shut down in Europe.
 
There isn’t anything to be done about the Church in Europe or anything else but for the Church to be true to Her Identity as the Bride of Christ.

In other words, what is important is not so much how many are attracted or how many leave, but to continually look to live and lead so that those who are attracted are attracted to the Church being what She ought to be and those leaving are leaving only because the Church is what She ought to be.

The alternative is for people to be attracted to the Church or leaving the Church precisely because the Church is not fulfilling her true mission–that is, that she accrue a false popularity. That would be an utter catastrophe, no matter how many bodies were being lured into the pews by wrongheadedness or falsehood.

As Steven Covey put it: The Main Thing is to Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing.

Europe was once brought back from dark times by the work of missionaries from Ireland. Perhaps it is time to make Europe into a mission field again, yes. The main thing is that the true Gospel is being preached.
 
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I’ve been to Ireland several times. My father and grandparents were Irish. I don’t know about mainland Europe, but I have a pretty good idea about Ireland.

First Ireland will never become Protestant or Muslim. They will either be Catholic…or something like Pagan (I say the Pagan thing half jokingly). This nature of the people. I believe they want to be Catholic. Yes there are several specific things you can do in Ireland. If you do these things, I think you’d see a Catholic revival in about 10 to 15 years.
  1. In the past 100 years Ireland was a poor country and the Catholic church had massive control. As a result, abuse hit Ireland hard. While I don’t believe this is entirely the church’s fault, the Catholic church must have clear measures to prevent, detect, and punish abuse…
  2. The Catholic church needs to stay out of government and trying to run society. There cannot even be an faint echo of the Magdalene laundries.
  3. End mandatory priestly celibacy. The value of celibacy is still debated in the US. This is just not the case in Ireland. Almost nobody agrees with mandatory celibacy in Ireland.
If the church does these things, I think Catholicism will again flourish at least in Ireland.
I don’t. 😦

The Irish millennials are the most sexually liberal group of millennials in all of Europe, according to a 2017 survey.

While I think Ireland will keep its Christian identity, I’m not sure if they will keep their Catholic identity.


And yes, I know that Ireland is among the most religious countries in Europe, but the millennials there are trending in the wrong direction.

https://spunout.ie/news/article/irish-millennials-are-open-optimistic-and-might-want-a-revolution
 
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