Any word on Sacred Music from the USCCB?

[Wolseley]

NewUlm1976_2000:

But remember the fine line between regulation and spirituality. Spirituality cannot be created by cold interpretations of the rules, it takes away from the humanity of the parish. That is where the warmth comes in when more than one are gathered in his name. How it is expressed varies by parish to parish worldwide.

That mindset, thankfully, will soon be dead and gone. Every year we get more bishops like Charles Chaput and Fabian Bruskewitz and fewer like Rembert Weakland and Raymond Lucker.

There’s a new ball game in town, NewUlm. Better get with the program.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

That mindset, thankfully, will soon be dead and gone. Every year we get more bishops like Charles Chaput and Fabian Bruskewitz and fewer like Rembert Weakland and Raymond Lucker.

There’s a new ball game in town, NewUlm. Better get with the program.

Actually both mindsets in this thread have always been with us and will always be with us. Diversity has always been in the church and will always be in the church. It is not a matter of “one side takes all” as your post infers. Music tastes are so diverse and a strict application will continue to happen at some parishes that do it now, but a more modern music selection will continue at many other parishes who are still doing it now.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually both mindsets in this thread have always been with us and will always be with us. Diversity has always been in the church and will always be in the church. It is not a matter of “one side takes all” as your post infers. Music tastes are so diverse and a strict application will continue to happen at some parishes that do it now, but a more modern music selection will continue at many other parishes who are still doing it now.

Obviously, you don’t read the documents. As indicated by your chosen monicker, you also seem to support the views of one who espoused serious errors. Please bear in mind that this document was supposed to follow the dictates of Liturgicam Authenticam.

I am not saying that all modern music is bad. What I am saying is that it must follow the norms of the Church, conform to Catholic doctrine and liturgical theology and be universal in nature.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy. We are bound to follow Peter by no less than Jesus himself.

I would suggest that, rather than offer polemical statements that do not help your cause, you avail yourself of Church documentation on the liturgy and sound theological books such as those written by His Holiness, Pope Benedict.

 

[anamchara]

But remember the fine line between regulation and spirituality. Spirituality cannot be created by cold interpretations of the rules, it takes away from the humanity of the parish. That is where the warmth comes in when more than one are gathered in his name. How it is expressed varies by parish to parish worldwide.

Thank you and God bless people like you in the Church.

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you and God bless people like you in the Church.

You seem to think that liturgical music is an “anything goes” format. Your earlier suggestion that perhaps we should sing “One” by U2 certainly backs up your stance.

Have you read any of the documents, or, for that matter, read Pope Benedict’s works on sacred music?

The St. Louis Jesuits did us no favors with their Joan Baez-inspired tripe. In fact, they are the leaders of the downward trend in sacred music today.

As Pope Benedict said in Sacramentum Caritatis, “one song is not as good as another.” What part of that did you not understand?

For those of us who treasure Sacred Music, the USCCB indecision about the matter was a dark day. However, there is some hope for the Church with Joseph Ratzinger as our Pope. Or, do your reject Benedict, as well?

 

[mercygate]

That’s a really wishy-washy approach to things and not what Rome had wanted. I am still going to write the letter because, as the way things are right now, it’s just perpetuating the problem.

Although Ann Richards wasn’t my favorite governor, she did have a good saying that I"ll quote: “You can put lipstick and pearls on a sow, but, she’ll still be a pig.”

Thank you, though, for the update. My computer is not letting me get into blogs, but, as soon as I get home, You are a God send.

I’ll be honest with you, I am still disappointed. But, I am hoping that when B16 comes here, he will have a lot to say to the bishops.

Nah. It will be like Cardinal Arinze and liturgical abuses. Whenever he goes anywhere people clean up their act. He never sees what people are complaining about.

They’ll play Mozart for the Pope and he’ll never have to hear, “Voices That Challenge.”

 

[pnewton]

Before I decide whose team I am going to be on in this rather interesting discussion, does anyone have a link to what these guidelines are? There are three links to a blog about guidelines, but none to the source. Am I asking too early?

 

[benedictgal]

Before I decide whose team I am going to be on in this rather interesting discussion, does anyone have a link to what these guidelines are? There are three links to a blog about guidelines, but none to the source. Am I asking too early?

I’m waiting for a callback from the USCCB. EWTN is also trying ot get the information. I tried to get a copy of the proposal from my bishop’s office, but his assistant said that he didn’t know if he had it. When I called Adoremus, I was told that the documents had been in the bishops’ hands for quite some time. Go figure.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Obviously, you don’t read the documents. As indicated by your chosen monicker, you also seem to support the views of one who espoused serious errors. Please bear in mind that this document was supposed to follow the dictates of Liturgicam Authenticam.

I am not saying that all modern music is bad. What I am saying is that it must follow the norms of the Church, conform to Catholic doctrine and liturgical theology and be universal in nature.

The Catholic Church is not a democracy. We are bound to follow Peter by no less than Jesus himself.

I would suggest that, rather than offer polemical statements that do not help your cause, you avail yourself of Church documentation on the liturgy and sound theological books such as those written by His Holiness, Pope Benedict.

Let me ask you this, does all spirituality derive from some set of rules? Do you believe in a one-size-fits all model for most to all things in life?

The Church lives in the world, modern or traditional it is a world with many differences in people. No two people have ever been or ever will be alike. Spirituality comes to different people in different ways. Music is one way to bring spirituality across to the people in each parish.

Liturgical music is a different work of art each time. Even if it is the same song, different performers do it in slightly different ways each time. If you look worldwide, the music selection is even more varied than in US.

In all the parishes I have traveled to, I have seen many of the same songs and many different songs performed by different people and different local styles. Yet there is always one constant, people getting some spiritual uplift from the music (even though many in the Midwest hide it well and are not always visibly participating at times).

Music, like the rest of the mass does not fit well into a one-size-fits all model based on one abritary set of rules/personal preferences (e.g. BXVI).

I have yet to hear U2 or any other music of that style in mass. You may find similar styles with more electric guitars at some youth events (e.g. Stubenville summer retreats), yet that is done in good taste.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

You seem to think that liturgical music is an “anything goes” format. Your earlier suggestion that perhaps we should sing “One” by U2 certainly backs up your stance.

Have you read any of the documents, or, for that matter, read Pope Benedict’s works on sacred music?

The St. Louis Jesuits did us no favors with their Joan Baez-inspired tripe. In fact, they are the leaders of the downward trend in sacred music today.

As Pope Benedict said in Sacramentum Caritatis, “one song is not as good as another.” What part of that did you not understand?

For those of us who treasure Sacred Music, the USCCB indecision about the matter was a dark day. However, there is some hope for the Church with Joseph Ratzinger as our Pope. Or, do your reject Benedict, as well?

So, then do not go to parishes that play that style of music. It should not be imposed everywhere.

And is that “one song is not good as another” ex cathedra? No, it is not. Interpreting these guidelines differently is not rejecting the Pope.

Try this exercise, go to different parishes with different styles, is the point of the music getting across to the people in the pews? If you can see spiritual growth by the end of the mass, the music style is doing its job.

 

[benedictgal]

Let me ask you this, does all spirituality derive from some set of rules? Do you believe in a one-size-fits all model for most to all things in life?

The Church lives in the world, modern or traditional it is a world with many differences in people. No two people have ever been or ever will be alike. Spirituality comes to different people in different ways. Music is one way to bring spirituality across to the people in each parish.

Liturgical music is a different work of art each time. Even if it is the same song, different performers do it in slightly different ways each time. If you look worldwide, the music selection is even more varied than in US.

In all the parishes I have traveled to, I have seen many of the same songs and many different songs performed by different people and different local styles. Yet there is always one constant, people getting some spiritual uplift from the music (even though many in the Midwest hide it well and are not always visibly participating at times).

Music, like the rest of the mass does not fit well into a one-size-fits all model based on one abritary set of rules/personal preferences (e.g. BXVI).

I have yet to hear U2 or any other music of that style in mass. You may find similar styles with more electric guitars at some youth events (e.g. Stubenville summer retreats), yet that is done in good taste.

This is interesting, since it comes from someone who supports a semi-hertical ordinary and even takes his name and dates of reign as a moniker. You obviously have not read any of the documents and are, in fact, condoning a “do-it-yourself” version of liturgy, which is Protestant.

The Mass has its rubrics and norms and they must be followed. The same holds true for music. Please keep yourself confined to the main thrust of the thread.

 

[TMC]

I hope that when the Pope comes to America he has a lot of time and opportunity to discuss many issues with our bishops. If music is in the top 50 issues I would be surprised and disapointed. If he has time to work through all the serious issues and still gets down to things like music, that would be great.

 

[benedictgal]

I hope that when the Pope comes to America he has a lot of time and opportunity to discuss many issues with our bishops. If music is in the top 50 issues I would be surprised and disapointed. If he has time to work through all the serious issues and still gets down to things like music, that would be great.

TMC, Liturgy and Music are very important issues. Even though you don’t seem to believe that the Mass is the source and summiit of the Church’s life (taken directly from the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy), our whole essence flows from it.

When problems arise with the Mass, they bubble and trickle down to everything else in the Church’s existence.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

This is interesting, since it comes from someone who supports a semi-hertical ordinary and even takes his name and dates of reign as a moniker. You obviously have not read any of the documents and are, in fact, condoning a “do-it-yourself” version of liturgy, which is Protestant.

The Mass has its rubrics and norms and they must be followed. The same holds true for music. Please keep yourself confined to the main thrust of the thread.

Where did I say “do-it-yourself”? This discussion is not about my username.

What I am saying is that variances are allowed. Bishops know their flock and know that it is a diverse group and they approve the music books that are allowed and they have a large variance in styles.

All I am saying is that having a diversity of music is a good thing, a growing thing for the Church. It is through the variances that the church grows. When it is reduced to a black and white discussion, the humanity of real life applications gets lost.

 

[anamchara]

TMC, Liturgy and Music are very important issues. Even though you don’t seem to believe that the Mass is the source and summiit of the Church’s life (taken directly from the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy), our whole essence flows from it.

When problems arise with the Mass, they bubble and trickle down to everything else in the Church’s existence.

What is with the accusation? I didn’t read that in his/her post.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Thank you and God bless people like you in the Church.

Thank you very much. The church is blessed to also have you in the Church.

 

[benedictgal]

What is with the accusation? I didn’t read that in his/her post.

He has stated that in other threads. It never ceases to amaze me that there are those who just don’t seem to thinik that we need liturgical norms. As I write this, One, is playing on my internet radio. That is not even a spiritual song.

Someone once told me that our church in the states was headed towards a schism. I tried to dismiss those comments until I started reading the opinions of posters on many of these threads. All I can say is that if this happens, I’m sticking with Peter, someone many people don’t even acknowledge any more, even bishops.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

He has stated that in other threads. It never ceases to amaze me that there are those who just don’t seem to thinik that we need liturgical norms. As I write this, One, is playing on my internet radio. That is not even a spiritual song.

Someone once told me that our church in the states was headed towards a schism. I tried to dismiss those comments until I started reading the opinions of posters on many of these threads. All I can say is that if this happens, I’m sticking with Peter, someone many people don’t even acknowledge any more, even bishops.

I think the disconnect seems to be that the “norms” can be broad in nature and not narrow as what appears to be your preference. Worldwide there are many diverse styles that all fit into the present “norms”. We are a church of over 1 Billion people so uniformity is unrealistic.

 

[benedictgal]

I think the disconnect seems to be that the “norms” can be broad in nature and not narrow as what appears to be your preference. Worldwide there are many diverse styles that all fit into the present “norms”. We are a church of over 1 Billion people so uniformity is unrealistic.

Show that to me in the documents, or is it something that the original ULM came up with, after his other quasi-hereitcal practices.

 

[anamchara]

Where did I say "

do-it-yourself"? This discussion is not about my username.

You didn’t say “do it yourself”. I’ve never read that in any of your posts.

What I am saying is that variances are allowed. Bishops know their flock and know that it is a diverse group and they approve the music books that are allowed and they have a large variance in styles.