Any X Jehovah's Witnesses Here?

[StrawberryJam]

Hmm, is that why my neighbor didn’t go door-to-door when it was 20 degrees out?

Why can’t men wear beards, do you know?

I think it’s based off an OT passage. Let me see if I can get it for you from one post I read on the other forum. I was surprised, since there are 612 or 613 things to follow in the OT, and how they can pick and choose which ones they like/don’t like in the OT the way they do. It could be a simple matter of taking a verse out of context, as I think they have done with the blood transfusion issue, and others.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Mea Culpa, it is not an OT passage.
2 Cor 6:3,4

I think personally they are poll watchers and when men with beards become more mainstream to the public, then they will follow suit. So, in other words they do want to be part of “the world” in spite of all the protesting that leads you to think otherwise.

 

[T_More]

Mea Culpa, it is not an OT passage.
2 Cor 6:3,4

I think personally they are poll watchers and when men with beards become more mainstream to the public, then they will follow suit. So, in other words they do want to be part of “the world” in spite of all the protesting that leads you to think otherwise.

I remember a JW who came from Europe and had a goatee. When he moved here, he was met with by the elders in his congregation and told he must remove it, even though it was acceptable in his congregation in Europe. They were very irrate with him when he refused and threatened him with disciplinary action. They called him a liar for saying that members in Europe accepted goatees/beards, and the funny thing was, neither of the elders have ever been outside the US and seen it for themselves. The fact is, they are accepted over there in their congregations. Very foolish. I guess that would make Europe the “Facial Hair Rite” of the WTS.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I remember a JW who came from Europe and had a goatee. When he moved here, he was met with by the elders in his congregation and told he must remove it, even though it was acceptable in his congregation in Europe. They were very irrate with him when he refused and threatened him with disciplinary action. They called him a liar for saying that members in Europe accepted goatees/beards, and the funny thing was, neither of the elders have ever been outside the US and seen it for themselves. The fact is, they are accepted over there in their congregations. Very foolish. I guess that would make Europe the “Facial Hair Rite” of the WTS.

T More,

I’m torn between being sad you saw such a thing, and happy you did.

By the way it is nice to meet you and thank you for some more insight on this.

I wish you the very best in all things you do

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

:yup:

Also, in addition to the no beards on men, men also can’t have their hair longer than their shirt collars, lest they appear spiritually weak. They must wear a shirt and tie to all meetings. Suit jackets indicate spiritual strength.

This is one that I find amusing: No Christian music… listening to Led Zepplin is fine, but Amazing Grace or How Great Thou Art is a big :tsktsk:

No voting, No military, No working as a police officer, Higher education had always been a big no-no… they may have changed that in very recent years… not sure how well that sits with the JWs who received full scholarships to Universities but had to turn them down because going to college showed you were into worldly pursuits and Armageddon was JUST around the corner.

No charitable giving… that include red cross, the food bank, salvation army, goodwill…

No birthdays, no valentines day, no thanksgiving, mother’s day or father’s day. No smoking but alcohol is fine. No R rated movies, no dating without a chaperone (now that I have teenagers, this one sounds more reasonable - lol!)

No sports for kids… or cheerleading… or boyscouts… or any afterschool clubs. They have a saying, “Bad association spoils useful habits.” Bad association = anyone who isn’t a JW in good standing. JWs size each other up and avoid the ones who fall short.

No speaking to former JWs who have left the oraganization and joined other churches even if they are your mother, your daughter or your son. No communication whatsoever. No attending their weddings or funerals.

No reading any religious material not published by the Watchtower. No disagreeing with anything they publish. Ever. Remember, they speak for Jehovah so disagreeing with the Watchtower = disagreeing w/ God.

Interesting…wow.

I had JWs stop by my house one day and I invited them in to talk. They said they wanted to give me some literature and if I had any questions to give me a call. I told them, I’ll take your literature if you take mine. They handed me their Watchtower booklets and I handed each of them a bible. They were quiet. I looked them both in the eyes and said, read it - really read it. It may change your lives. They both looked at each other, took the books and hid them in their pocketbooks and left.

I never saw them again, but that doesn’t matter, I really prayed that God would break through into their lives in a way that they have never known and in a way that would lead them out of the darkness.

I pray the same for the person who will be meeting with them who started the thread. I pray that you are a light in a house of darkness and the Lord would shine His light into each of their lives.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

I’ve heard many times Jehovah Witnesses allow only a hand picked few people to partake of their purely symbolic communion ‘emblems’ ceremony, that is ones the organization has decided are probably one of the 144000 headed for Heaven. (I wonder how many the have had over the years?) From what I heard they pass the plate and the bread around and no one even gets to have some almost begging the question why pass them around at all?

 

[yellowbird]

I’ve heard many times Jehovah Witnesses allow only a hand picked few people to partake of their purely symbolic communion ‘emblems’ ceremony, that is ones the organization has decided are probably one of the 144000 headed for Heaven. (I wonder how many the have had over the years?) From what I heard they pass the plate and the bread around and no one even gets to have some almost begging the question why pass them around at all?

This is partially true… actually the individual decides for himself if he is one of the 144,000 “annointed” ones who will go to heaven. The vast majority of these spots were supposedly filled by 1925 … everyone born after that time would be part of the “great crowd” who live on earth with earth forever after Armegeddon. Occasionally a person of our generation will claim to be one of the 144,000 and it’s assumed he/she is taking a place reserved for someone else who had fell away from the Organization.

If you were to study with the JWs, they would work very hard to convince you that you are NOT part of that 144,000 and you do NOT have a heavenly hope.

During the Memorial Service held once a year, the bread & wine is passed around to the congregation but only one of the annointed 144,000 can receive it. Often the entire congregation will pass and nobody will receive. The Society keeps track of the number of people who receive each year and they believe that Armegeddon will come before that number dwindles down to zero. Not sure what they’ll do when all of the 144,000 have died… wait, yes I do. Based on their history, they will change that doctrine to mean something else…light getting brighter and all that…

One thing I find so interesting about their belief that only 144,000 will go to heaven is that the Bible lists who makes up that number… 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel… not just random, mainly American people.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I visited their official site this morning and I found something curiously missing from it.
Any type of outreach/charity program to aid others with food pantry, clothing, or any other service that one typically sees in nearly all christian churches. Is it found under a different name perhaps? Like Jehovah’s charities?

 

[Rolltide]

I visited their official site this morning and I found something curiously missing from it.
Any type of outreach/charity program to aid others with food pantry, clothing, or any other service that one typically sees in nearly all christian churches. Is it found under a different name perhaps? Like Jehovah’s charities?

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in charity. After all, what’s the point, since we’re all currently living through the end times? Jehovah’s Witnesses are confident that there are people alive today that WILL witness the end. So, it’s far more important to proselytize to as many people as possible so that they have at least a chance of being saved. There’s almost no time left!

 

[yellowbird]

I visited their official site this morning and I found something curiously missing from it.
Any type of outreach/charity program to aid others with food pantry, clothing, or any other service that one typically sees in nearly all christian churches. Is it found under a different name perhaps? Like Jehovah’s charities?

Correct - no charities or outreach programs at all. As the previous poster said, they believe their lives are one big act of charity speading their “gospel” message. Not only do they not contribute to charities, no time whatsoever is spent discussing the poor or hungry except as an example of what a wicked world they live in.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Whether you agree with JW theology or not, if you are in their meeting house, church, or whatever they call it, you should be respectful.

You are a guest there, and should conduct yourself appropriately. With that being said, if they should start attacking another faith, whether it be Catholic or not, then I would repectfully excuse myself and leave. You can make a simple, respectful statement of ,“I’m sorry, those are not my beliefs”, and excuse yourself.

As Catholics, we expect visitors to a Mass to be respectful of where they are at, and what is going on. We don’t require they believe it, we simply ask that they respect it while they are there.

We should offer that same respect to individuals of another faith whether we agree with it or not, especially in their house of worship.

If you are so eager to attack them in their house of worship, my recommendation would be not to go. Simply explain to the individual(s) that invited you that you cannot attend in good concience, based on what you know about their theology. Of course, do this before you enter their hall.

Kindness and respect will get you much further than anger and attacks.

I don’t plan on attacking them during service! My dad wants me to debate with one of the church leaders. And I said BRING IT ON!!!

 

[yellowbird]

I don’t plan on attacking them during service! My dad wants me to debate with one of the church leaders. And I said BRING IT ON!!!

Unless you come armed with some anti-JW tracts, I’m afraid you will lose my friend. They are VERY trained in how to debate their point… they actually practice at the kingdom hall with mock debates. I predict a debate at the Kingdom Hall with one of the elders will do one of two things… frustrate the heck out of you and make you angry OR make you very confused.

Offer your Dad the tracts, pray for him… and let it go.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t plan on attacking them during service! My dad wants me to debate with one of the church leaders. And I said BRING IT ON!!!

Hello Mr. Zetterlund,

If I may offer my paltry two cents on the possible upcoming discussion you will be having with the representative they will have you meet with.

Make sure there are set ground rules established beforehand and that you both agree to adhere to them. They seem to be big on having 2 witnesses? present in order to charge a witness with wrongdoing (one of their members). So, you could ask that there be at least two other JW’s present for this.

I am told they won’t pray with you so, in lieu of praying beforehand you may ask if you can pray either out loud or silently, but that you also expect they too will pray in the same manner- out loud or silently. I think this starts the discussion on a level playing field then.

It is quite alright to say you are unable to answer a question without verifying the nuances of it first. It is an often overlooked reasonable reply to typically unreasonable or incoherent questions. Use it as often as you see fit.

Demand respect, and do not reply to belittling language about your beliefs.

Know their dogmas beforehand. You will regret it if you don’t.

I think an outline of topics, even if a general one be in place beforehand. Set a time limit on this discussion, and equal time must be given to respond by both sides to each topic.

Don’t repeat yourself needlessly. Avoid naked assertions.

Avoid emotional appeals. Be armed with the information Rolltide gave you here as a reference tool. Ask if you can bring notes, books or other materials to use as primary source evidence for your position. Demand they use primary sources of information when making claims.

I could make a longer list but I have to make it to the bank before it’s too late.

Just suggestions for you. I certainly think you are able to determine for yourself the best approaches to this.

 

[T_More]

Unless you come armed with some anti-JW tracts, I’m afraid you will lose my friend. They are VERY trained in how to debate their point… they actually practice at the kingdom hall with mock debates. I predict a debate at the Kingdom Hall with one of the elders will do one of two things… frustrate the heck out of you and make you angry OR make you very confused.

Offer your Dad the tracts, pray for him… and let it go.

With respect, yellowbird, it depends on the subject and how you present it. You are right when it comes to bible debating, but if he sticks to addressing the religion’s history, then he can control the situation. Why? Because rarely does anyone within their own religion know their own history. Ask the very simple question, why has the WTS continued to try and predict Armageddon when Christ said what he said in Mark 13:32? Ask, has not the WTS made predictions about the end throughout their history and been wrong? If they are honest, they will say yes, but…if not, then ask them about 1914 and their changed views on the generation issue, the prediction in the 1925 WT article about “Millions Now Living Will Never Die” and most recently 1975. After establishing that, ask how that squares with what the bible teaches about false prophets (Deut. 13). Don’t buy the “Light gets brighter” argument. If they do, ask them to show in the binle where it says that. They should show you Proverbs 4:18. Read the verses before and after and establish with them that this verse has nothing to do with understanding better and better the scriptures and God’s purpose, but establishing those that serve Him and those that don’t. Look at what Russell himself wrote:

“If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now; But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. … “New Light” never extinguishes older “light” but adds to it…” Zion’s Watch Tower 1881 February pp.3, 188

Remember, Mr Zetterlund, you need to establish control of the conversation. Good luck!

 

[vickimonica]

Yep. And, you will NEVER see a woman in pants in their meetings or going door to door. That’s what I hear from former JW’s who are now athiests.

Oh, and they forbid blood transfusions even if life depends on one.

There are more doozies, but this should get the study rolling.

They are also not supposed to go into chuches other then their own . (JW). When I got married, I invited a friend from work to come to my wedding, she couldn’t attend the ceremony in my chuch, she could only attend the reception. (Which was held at a Country Club)…

 

[yellowbird]

Remember, Mr Zetterlund, you need to establish control of the conversation. Good luck!

I agree… IF he could control the conversation… I think they work very hard to take that control away though… on the rare occasions I’ve spoken to them in my driveway I was unable to control the conversation and I’m a grown woman. He’s a teenager who’ll be AT the Kingdom Hall.

Keep your cool Mr. Zutterlund - remember, this is not personal so don’t allow yourself to get angry or all worked up. These people are NOT evil… they want you to agree to their beliefs because they believe they are 100% correct and your eternity depends on it. They are wrong, of course. But know they are motivated out of concern for you, not because of some sort of sinister reason.

When will the meeting take place?

 

[T_More]

I agree… IF he could control the conversation… I think they work very hard to take that control away though… on the rare occasions I’ve spoken to them in my driveway I was unable to control the conversation and I’m a grown woman. He’s a teenager who’ll be AT the Kingdom Hall.

Keep your cool Mr. Zutterlund - remember, this is not personal so don’t allow yourself to get angry or all worked up. These people are NOT evil… they want you to agree to their beliefs because they believe they are 100% correct and your eternity depends on it. They are wrong, of course. But know they are motivated out of concern for you, not because of some sort of sinister reason.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[MrZetterlund]

I agree… IF he could control the conversation… I think they work very hard to take that control away though… on the rare occasions I’ve spoken to them in my driveway I was unable to control the conversation and I’m a grown woman. He’s a teenager who’ll be AT the Kingdom Hall.

Keep your cool Mr. Zutterlund - remember, this is not personal so don’t allow yourself to get angry or all worked up. These people are NOT evil… they want you to agree to their beliefs because they believe they are 100% correct and your eternity depends on it. They are wrong, of course. But know they are motivated out of concern for you, not because of some sort of sinister reason.

When will the meeting take place?

I don’t really see them as such. Don’t worry, I’m just phsyched to get to debate someone.

 

[Sicilian]

I’ve got a date to attend a Jehovah’s Witness church, and was wondering if there are any key points that I should attack. It would be most helpful if there are any former Jehovah’s Witnesses who can tell me why they left.

Hello, I was raised a J.W. My childhood was quite dismal, to say the least. We were not allowed to celebrate birthdays, Christmas, Halloween and so on. One of the recurring themes I recall were their never ending attacks on Catholics. I remember my mother telling me that, “All Catholics are going to Hell”. When I was just a young boy my mother and I would go from door to door preaching. We met many lonely people who just wanted someone to talk to, not many converts though. (I can’t remember how many times we were told that the world was going to end!)

Your question was; “…wondering if there are any key points that I should attack”. Please don’t attack, as the J.W.'s are usually very kind people. There are some great resources right here at C.A. Under “non-Catholic groups”. Such as:

Are They Awake on the Watchtower

Distinctive Beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses

The God of the Jehovah’s Witnesses

History of the Jehovah’s Witnesesses

More Stumpers for the Jehovah’s Witnesses

Strategies of Jehovah’s Witness

Stumpers for Jehovah’s Witnesses

Hope this helps, J.D.

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t plan on attacking them during service! My dad wants me to debate with one of the church leaders. And I said BRING IT ON!!!

Debate is fine, I was simply going by what you said in your OP, and the word attack.

Personally, this situation looks like you’re being “set-up” so to speak.

It’s kind of like when you walk into a casino expecting to win. People tend to forget that the odds are always in favor of the house.

I have a picture in my mind of “you” debating your side, and a large group of “them” debating their side. Even though the debate will be with one of their leaders, I picture many of the observers chiming in.

Several have said to make sure there are “ground rules”. Especially in regard to audience participation. I would also suggest you bring someone with you, just in case.

Best of luck.