Any young earth creationists out there?

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It seems likely that you were raised believing the whole Darwinism thing and that humans evolved from microbes. As a result, this belief is probably deeply ingrained into your psyche and would therefore be difficult to let go of.
 
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Glark said:
Most theistic evolutionists seem to have never even heard of the Bible.
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angel12:
You know, it is possible to deny evolution – or any science, really - without lying about those who do accept science
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Glark:
“lying”? Are you sure that’s the word you want to go with?
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Yup. Lying. A liar. A bearer of false witness against his neighbour. A deliberate malicious attempt to discredit theistic evolution by say things which you know are utterly and completely untrue. Typical of the continuous Creationist campaign to distort the clear and unequivocal teaching of the Catholic Church that Evolution is a valid inquiry into the original of the universe, life and human beings. No Christian, let alone a Catholic, should allow such sinfulness to slip by unchallenged. Quick! Retract! Your immortal soul is in danger!

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Eh? What’s that? You were joking?
Oh, well, in that case ignore what I said above. So was I.

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You weren’t joking? Oops. Then you’re a liar. Repent and be saved.
 
The Church of the past seems to be different to the Church we have now. Some of the disparate views between the old and the modern seem irreconcilable.
 
Richca said:
Presently concerning evolutionism theory, the Church is as it were allowing the natural sciences to investigate it and see what they come up with.
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What the natural sciences have come up with so far is a quasi-religious belief-system that says life evolved from a microbe without any need for God … which looks suspiciously like something lifted straight out of an atheist manifesto.
 
catholic1seeks said:
The Church in her Magisterium as well as consistent tradition has been clear that the creation account in Genesis is, at the very least,in some sense “symbolic.” It uses “figurative language,” as the Catechism says.
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The Catechism is biased and misleading - it neglects to state that Genesis may be interpreted literally or figuratively.
 
Hugh_Farey said:
If archaeopteryx and all the other extinct ‘kinds’ were part of God’s wonderful creation, why did he kill them all off? Did they all die in the flood? Or at some other time? Is there a theological message there, and if so, what is it? Was archaeopteryx evil?
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These are interesting questions. Existence presents many deep mysteries that we cannot resolve.
I know neither you, Glark nor any of the other Fundamentalist Protestants really want to know anything about Evolution
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Unfortunately, My capacity for learning about evolution is severely hindered by my aptitude for true science. Every time I attempt to study evolution, I start to feel … insane. I fear that I am allergic to it. For this, I sincerely apologise.
 
Hugh_Farey said:
it’s fairly obvious that most Creationists have no knowledge of evolution to start with, and no interest in finding out any more.
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Translation: “Anyone who is knowledgeable about evolution will accept it as true. Therefore anyone who rejects evolution lacks knowledge of it.”

Your reasoning is erroneous, however, as there exist PROFESSORS OF BIOLOGY who completely reject microbe-man evolution and believe in a literal “six days” interpretation of Genesis. It is possible you have become dazed and confused (again), hence your flawed interpretation of reality?
I was hoping that this thread might concentrate a little more on Creationism, and a little less on Evolution, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that Creationists have very little to offer about it.
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It is unfair and unreasonable to expect creationists to explain aspects of creation that only the Creator can answer. I suspect you are again attempting to apply the rules of science to religious faith, which is silliness. This silliness is symptomatic of an individual who has been rendered dazed and confused by a blow from a heavy, blunt object - such as Scientism.
 
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Glark said:
The Church of the past seems to be different to the Church we have now. Some of the disparate views between the old and the modern seem irreconcilable.
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You have, I think, put your finger on exactly the right spot. The real difference between us is not principally, or even importantly, about Creation and Evolution on its own. It’s about Vatican II. Or, to be less precise, all the 20th century changes to Catholic teaching which are popularly clumped under the name “Vatican II”.

I think there is a debate to be had about whether all these changes have increased or decreased overall faith in God, faith in Christianity, or adherence to Catholicism - and another about whether mere numbers are important signifiers anyway, but that’s for a different thread. No doubt it has been hammered out many times at Catholic Answers.

But here and now, Catholicism is what it is, and among its teachings is the acceptance of the consensus of modern science, and the universality of rational explanation, as at least worth considering, and at most asa valid paradigm of our understanding of the world. To deny that the Church holds this is to cling to a childhood notion of the pre-1960s Church, which simply no longer exists, except in those protestant factions such as the sedevacantist sects.

It’s not clear that any of the Creationists here explicitly deny the authority of the last few popes, but is obvious from the desperate quotebombing of Buffalo and Edwest that their theology, such as they understand it, is rooted in the early 20th century, and a deliberate blindness to, and sometimes frank denial of, Catholic teaching since.

I was hoping that this thread, at least, would be able to concentrate not on whether Creation or Evolution is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’. I would like all you Creationists, I have begged all you Creationists, not to concentrate on whether Evolution is ‘wrong’, but how Creationism is ‘right’. Assume that Young Earth Creationism is literally, word for word true. Why is Genesis in the Bible, and what has it to tell us? If someone like me asks about the theology of extinct animals, why can nobody explain?

Richca has had some sensible things to say, but from an Old Earth, not a Young Earth, perspective. Apart from that, we get the ‘mere history’ approach of some, and the confused ‘fall’ approach of Buffalo.

Let’s try again. Does anyone know what Genesis was supposed to say about fossils before 1960?
 
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Glark said:
Translation: “Anyone who is knowledgeable about evolution will accept it as true. Therefore anyone who rejects evolution lacks knowledge of it.”

Your reasoning is erroneous, however, as there exist PROFESSORS OF BIOLOGY who completely reject microbe-man evolution and believe in a literal “six days” interpretation of Genesis. It is possible you have become dazed and confused (again), hence your flawed interpretation of reality?
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Liar. First you misrepresent what I wrote, dishonestly, and then you try to show that your misrepresentation is false, with further obfuscation, also dishonestly.

There are indeed some professors of biology who reject microbe-man evolution. They do have considerable knowledge of evolution, and considerable interest in finding out more. There are websites full of evolution deniers carefully combing the literature for opportunities to misquote evolution believers. I do not deny that for a moment. What I claim is that it is fairly obvious that they are a small minority of Creationists as a whole. It may be that the Creationists who post on Catholic answers are not representative of the whole, but to a man or woman, not one has shown any knowledge of Evolution. There are three main approaches to the subject.
  1. Find a huge chunk of text, or an hour long video, which they hope supports an anti-evolutionist view, and lob it into the fray, without any further consideration.
  2. Ask the same simplistic questions over and over again without building on the answers given in order to enhance their understanding.
  3. Make bald assertions of their understanding and ignore any considered response.
This is what I mean by having no knowledge of evolution to start with, and no interest in finding out any more.
 
Whose theology? As far as Catholic theology is concerned, they were never a topic.
 
AndrewAxland said:
Whose theology? As far as Catholic theology is concerned, they were never a topic.
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Really? I’d have thought the discovery of mass extinction would have given Genesis theologists pause for thought. There would be the possibility that the flood wiped them all out, but that would be at odds with the idea that it was mankind who was evil and had to be destroyed, but that the animals had done nothing wrong, and should be saved.

If it was the flood, one wonders about God “finding it was good”, only to find it bad a few years later (and I cannot think that theologians blamed Adam and Eve for mass extinction), and if it wasn’t the flood, then why did they all die out later? I have been attempting to find some early discussions about this, but so far failed.
 
Hugh_Farey said:
I’d have thought the discovery of mass extinction would have given Genesis theologists pause for thought.
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I doubt it. It wasn’t a topic of interest to them. If any of them discussed it, it would have been unlikely to progress beyond the speculative chatter phase. In any case, I doubt that any Catholic theologian would have thought about it seriously enough to eventually write it down. As far as I am aware, no authoritative writings exist on the matter.
 
Richca said:
According to Darwinian evolutionism, it is a principle of the nature of organisms and plants that they evolve into different natures and essentially exterminate themselves. Essentially organisms evolve to destroy themselves. God created animals to live, exist, and be, not to evolve to destroy themselves.
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Exactly, there would have to have been millions and millions of Doomsday Environmental scenarios always waiting around the corner for every plant and animal to trigger all these so-call random mutations.
 
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Techno2000 said:
God created animals to live, exist, and be, not to evolve to destroy themselves.
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The Great Prophet George Carlin has a great line about this: “If God is so great, then why is it that everything he creates… DIES???”
 
AndrewAxland said:
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Techno2000:
God created animals to live, exist, and be, not to evolve to destroy themselves.
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The Great Prophet George Carlin has a great line about this: “If God is so great, then why is it that everything he creates… DIES???”
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Nothing really dies, all life returns back to God from where it came from.
 
You may be right. I have been hunting in archive.org, but nothing significant has turned up. In fact I cannot find that any Catholics, except the post Vatican II breed of Creationists, have ever really cared what the age of the earth was, or whether mass extinction reflects on the creative imagination of God. In 1909, as far as I can gather, the Pontifical Biblical Commission insisted on the literal truth of Genesis, while in 1948 they suggested that it (the literalness) was worth investigating in the light of modern discoveries, but there was no suggestion that theology would be affected one way or the other. The various “theologies of Genesis” (non-Catholic, I think) that I can find online do not even mention whether the six days are to be taken literally or not. It doesn’t seem relevant.

All this makes me wonder why the Creationists of this forum are so anti-evolution. It cannot be that they are striving after the scientific truth, as they don’t care to investigate it at all, and anyway it should be irrelevant to specifically Catholic Answers. No, by their own insistence it is on theological grounds. They mostly attempt to equate belief in evolution with atheism, as if they need belief in a literal six-day creation as their guarantee of the existence of God. Is that true, do you think? That Creationists’ belief in the divine is so shaky that it depends on manifestations of the supernatural, rather than the glorious, complex but coherent explanation of the observed universe that demonstrates him to Evolutionists.

Worth exploring further when I’ve thought about it a bit more.
 
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