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edwest211
Guest
So you know when The Fall happened?
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
Devious misrepresentation. I didn’t highlight ‘according to’, I highlighted a section which was not predicated by it. As you know perfectly well. Why so dishonest?“According to” is not an endorsement by the Church. Science has something to say but it is not the whole, complete answer. That is what is missing.
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buffalo
Guest
No one knows if any animals died before the fall. The human reasoning of science makes this claim. The fossil evidence we see could just as well be after the flood.No, it’s not. At least, not if you’re saying death and destruction was never part of creation prior to the Fall. (But I may be misunderstanding you)
In fact, I corresponded with Trent Horn of Catholic Answers a year or so ago on this very question, and he referenced Thomas Aquinas, who said that nature has built-in imperfections. Nature has been a certain way because it IS a certain way: Death was always a natural process for biological realities.
What IS Church Teaching is that the Fall of Man threw away the very preternatural gifts – gifts not owed to our nature. That is, WE HUMANS became prone to death and decay after the Fall.
But yes, prior to Fall, animals felt pain, disease was present, earthquakes and hurricanes and meteor showers happened, plants and animals died, entire species became extinct, and so forth.
Romans 8:18 In my estimation, all that we suffer in the present time is nothing in comparison with the glory which is destined to be disclosed for us,
19 for the whole creation is waiting with eagerness for the children of God to be revealed.
20 It was not for its own purposes that creation had frustration imposed on it, but for the purposes of him who imposed it-
21 with the intention that the whole creation itself might be freed from its slavery to corruption and brought into the same glorious freedom as the children of God.
22 We are well aware that the whole creation, until this time, has been groaning in labour pains.
23 And not only that: we too, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we are groaning inside ourselves, waiting with eagerness for our bodies to be set free.
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buffalo
Guest
More proof that you claim man’s reasoning of observations is superior to Revelation. Thnak you for proving my point - AGAINI’m not commenting; I’m seeking clarification. Your characterisation of the theology of a Creationist interpretation of Genesis is frightful. Somebody must be able to do better than that. No? … sigh …
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buffalo
Guest
Of course this is true now. Was it , in the beginning?In fact, I corresponded with Trent Horn of Catholic Answers a year or so ago on this very question, and he referenced Thomas Aquinas, who said that nature has built-in imperfections. Nature has been a certain way because it IS a certain way: Death was always a natural process for biological realities.
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
Ooooh! What frightful arrogance! Equating your personal idea about the theology of your personal interpretation of Creation with Divine Revelation!More proof that you claim man’s reasoning of observations is superior to Revelation. Thnak you for proving my point - AGAIN
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
Usually, yes. Have nothing to do with them.Are old earth creationists different to evolutionists?
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buffalo
Guest
I am lock step with the constant teaching of the Church, You are breaking from it with sola scriptura where you are pope.Ooooh! What frightful arrogance! Equating your personal idea about the theology of your personal interpretation of Creation with Divine Revelation!
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
This is the teaching of the Church: “physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.” I’m so glad you are in lock step with it.I am lock step with the constant teaching of the Church
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buffalo
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I eagerly await the dogmatic magisterial proof of your claim.This is the teaching of the Church: “physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.” I’m so glad you are in lock step with it.
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buffalo
Guest
What day did the animals begin to die?But yes, prior to Fall, animals felt pain, disease was present, earthquakes and hurricanes and meteor showers happened, plants and animals died, entire species became extinct, and so forth.
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catholic1seeks
Guest
Probably when humans first appeared, no?
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Hope1960
Guest
Amen!Catholicism is not a Fundamentalist religion.
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catholic1seeks
Guest
So dinosaurs lived when, exactly?No one knows if any animals died before the fall. The human reasoning of science makes this claim. The fossil evidence we see could just as well be after the flood.
Our Earth does not seem to be so-designed to allow for reproducing species to never die. In fact, it would seem biological processes depend very much on the processes of decomposition and death. Many animals and other organisms’ very survival depends on other dead organisms.
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Hugh_Farey
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I didn’t know I needed it; I just used the same teaching that Edwest was using. Is it wrong?I eagerly await the dogmatic magisterial proof of your claim.
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
I don’t think anybody thinks that, Nelka,God created the world, why do people think it created itself?
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