Anybody coparenting?

[duskyjewel]

Peony, I had a brain wave. Could you use your daughter’s upset as a way through your husband’s armor?

I suspect he teaches his daughter about chastity because he doesn’t want any man using her the way he uses the women in the porn he watches. She is precious to him. Well, every girl in those movies is someone’s daughter. They are just as precious as his own daughter. Perhaps if he was forced to see that… Also tell him that by letting his daughter see that he is a hypocrite, and see the nastiness that is porn, he has damaged her ability to relate to men in healthy ways, and increased the possibility that she could end up like the girls in those movies. (Rare and extremely unlikely… but all’s fair in war.)

Use this terrible incident to try again to break down his defenses. It might just begin to break through. Face it, at 17, your daughter is beautiful and sexy, and only a tiny bit younger than the girls he’s watching. He can’t fail to see the connection. He may fight it and actively deny it, but he can’t not see it! It may plant a seed…

Or it may not. Addiction is a powerful thing, especially when not fought and given full reign.

Again, I am sorry.

 

[newf]

It’s about my kids now.

Exactly!

You need to consider what is best for your kids. You said your kids love their dad and that is a good start. But you need to be sure your daughter is protected from your husband’s porn addiction. If you can live in the house with him and be assured this past incident will never be repeated, I would stay. But if your husband slips again, you may want to split just to protect her and your other child.

You mentioned keeping your husband close would be better than sending your children to his place in the event of a split, where they would be exposed to ‘godknowswhat’. And that is also a valid consideration.

What I’m trying to say is that you have your head on straight. You are doing a good job of sorting this out. And you will do what is right. I wish you all the best in this difficult struggle. And your kids are blessed to have a mom like you.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

are the opposite.
A few weeks ago I thought things were going okay, not great but tolerable, when my daughter found a porn movie downloaded on her computer. She thought it was her brother and went to my husband who admitted that he was the one who watched it. She (17yo) was distraught to find out that the father who has been teaching her chastity could look at people this way. She feels like I did after I found out about the affair. It’s so sad…

That isn’t good.

Well said. Ashamed to say that like all too many men I was part of the majority when I was in the 18-25 demographic… That grouping, studies are showing find “80% using or looking at porn online at least once a month”. Given how prevalent it is (even accepted, in the dorms it was common enough for someone to call over a friend and say “hey check this out!” - sad…) Well given all that I think a lot of women just expect it to be a part of men’s lives… Really taking a stand and saying “I don’t look at porn” marks someone as weird… It is kind of expected.

I am pleased and thankful to report that in returning to my Catholic Faith and regular (weekly) confession, that sort of empty addiction has disappeared into my past. It was rough at first and I ended up - as advised - getting up from the computer putting my shoes on and walking around outside to let the moment pass while asking our Blessed Mother for help. Actually, I usually through a leash on my pooch and would take him along - he never had it so good!

It is possible to put that in the past, but I don’t think I could have without the rosary, confession, and weekday Mass several times a week. I never wanted to come to see Jesus having offended him that way. It was a motivator!

Do you think that this is a route you could help encourage him to take? He really isn’t alone in this problem. Pornography is a $12B a year industry in this country - more than the NFL, NBA, MLBA & NHL combined! That tells us it is not just one really rich many buying all of this!

So he is not alone in this, and you are not alone in being hurt by it. There is hope there though.

 

[jwashu]

I’m sure you have done this but I figured I would make the suggestion anyway…

Have you guys talked about why he is “addicted”? All guys, without the Grace of God (and even many with it) are pretty much enthralled by visual stimulation… hence his porn “addiction.”

I’m putting it in quotes because, as a man, I find it hard to see it as an addiction because addiction means outside the norm in my opinion and the “norm” for society (even many Protestent groups now) is that “marraige enhancers” are A-OK!

As someone stated it takes 2 to make a marraige work, it sounds to me like you are doing everything you can on multiple levels. My suggestion is, what about the 1 level that he seems to be “addicted” to?

You don’t have to answer this on a forum but rather this is just for your consideration. How is your sex life? Is it dull or exciting? Do you guys try things new - different places, positions etc… or is it kind of stale? If the visual turns him on, and he hasn’t had an affiar in years then my guess is that he loves you and still desires you but because of work, kids etc… you guys don’t find the time to renew your marriage covenant often enough.

This is NOT just directed at you. Many men who want more sex eventually find it easier to just pop in a tape or download a video than to try to entice their wife, especailly if they know they are both tired etc… Remember a video never says no

Again, this doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t ever say no though

What I’m suggesting is that perhaps you guys needs to talk about where each of you are sexually. Ask him what he needs from you to feel satisfied so that he doesn’t feel the need to look at porn. Then in turn, tell him what HE needs to do in order for you guys to be able to get there… together.

As a previous poster said, in secular society it’s almost odd for a guy to say he dosen’t look at porn. Even most married women I know (outside of the very religious ones) look at it as well or with their husbands. This is NOT the answer of course. The answer is to become for one another more than any fantisy ever could be.

Even after many of years together, it can be done. Even when our bodies aren’t 20 anymore, it can be done.

You are both in my prayers!

Joe

 

[Peony]

Peony, I had a brain wave. Could you use your daughter’s upset as a way through your husband’s armor?

I suspect he teaches his daughter about chastity because he doesn’t want any man using her the way he uses the women in the porn he watches. She is precious to him. Well, every girl in those movies is someone’s daughter. They are just as precious as his own daughter. Perhaps if he was forced to see that…

Again, I am sorry.

Thanks duskyjewel. I don’t think it would work. I’m almost positive I emailed him this shelleylubben.com/blog/blog.php?bid=15
awhile ago. He knows its wrong. He just disconnects from logic.

 

[duskyjewel]

I thought the fact that it was personal, inside his own family, with his own daughter, might make a difference. But I don’t have any experience trying to “cure” someone of this, either. Just an idea.

Prayers…

 

[SilenceISgolden]

I was just curious how old your second child is? You noted that your daughter is 17. If your other child is a teen as well, the good news is that you may not have to deal with this much longer. Wait until they are out of HS and then leave.

I have a different perspective than others on this post. I was raised in a family with addiction but of a different variety. I remember always wishing, praying that she would leave. I loved my dad, I wanted my dad to love me. Even when there wasn’t arguing, there was THE TENSION, the HUGE elephant sitting in the middle of the room that God forbid we talk about. I guess it would have shown me that I deserve better, that someone shouldn’t treat you that way and get away with it.

I’m guessing both of your children are aware now of the issue and you may want to consider some counseling for them as well.

I’m very sorry for your pain and pray that you will find some peace.

 

[graceandglory]

I’m putting it in quotes because, as a man, I find it hard to see it as an addiction because addiction means outside the norm in my opinion and the “norm” for society (even many Protestent groups now) is that “marraige enhancers” are A-OK!

.
.

. you guys don’t find the time to renew your marriage covenant often enough.

.
.

What I’m suggesting is that perhaps you guys needs to talk about where each of you are sexually. Ask him what he needs from you to feel satisfied so that he doesn’t feel the need to look at porn.
.
Even most married women I know (outside of the very religious ones) look at it as well or with their husbands.

Joe

Joe, you are so out of line, it’s sick.

A woman is NEVER the cause of her husband’s infidelity. If there is something wrong with that part of their marriage, it could be because her husband is addicted to PORN. An addiction is such because it destroys the people’s lives around you!

Your profile says that you are a Catholic. Your opinions are neither Catholic nor Christian. You would do well to study Catholic sexual morality. You do seem to have a lot of opinions on the subject, albeit poorly formed. I suggest you get a copy of “Good News for Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West.

For more help for Sexual addictions: sa.org/

 

[duskyjewel]

A woman is NEVER the cause of her husband’s infidelity.

Actually, that’s not true. There are many wives out there who are critical of their husbands, rebuff their sexual advances using kids and work and being tired as an excuse, and who don’t show gratitude and sweetness to their men. If you don’t feed someone long enough, they’re gonna find a place to eat. Some women seem to think they can dish out any treatment to their husbands and yet still expect them to be faithful and loving.

If women were never the cause of men’s getting so hungry they look elsewhere, Dr. Laura would have no market for her books.

Not saying it’s right for a man to stray, and I am not excusing it, but there are things wives can do to keep their men so happy that an 18 year old buxom blonde could wiggle on his lap, and he would ignore her and get up to leave for home. And sex is only one of many.

This probably has little to do with the OP and her problem, though. She said the porn pre-dated the marriage.

 

[graceandglory]

Actually, that’s not true. There are many wives out there who are critical of their husbands, rebuff their sexual advances using kids and work and being tired as an excuse, and who don’t show gratitude and sweetness to their men. If you don’t feed someone long enough, they’re gonna find a place to eat.

Can you support that with ANY Church documents?

:nope:

A man is responsible for his own mortal sin.

A woman is responsible for hers.

 

[Katie1723]

…It’s about my kids now.

There’s your answer.

Kathy

 

[duskyjewel]

Can you support that with ANY Church documents?

:nope:

A man is responsible for his own mortal sin.

A woman is responsible for hers.

I need Church documents to back up common sense? I never said that the woman would pay the price for his mortal sins, what I said was that she could hurt and reject him so often that it could cause him to fall into sin. People who get what they need don’t go looking for sinful ways to get it. Is it sinful of a woman to reject and criticize her husband to the point where he is so lonely, so defeated, so hungry for affection that he will consider adultery? I think it is…don’t we vow to love and cherish?

This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP, BTW, or with her problem. Just responding to the turn the conversation has taken.

 

[Ailina]

Actually, that’s not true. There are many wives out there who are critical of their husbands, rebuff their sexual advances using kids and work and being tired as an excuse, and who don’t show gratitude and sweetness to their men. If you don’t feed someone long enough, they’re gonna find a place to eat. Some women seem to think they can dish out any treatment to their husbands and yet still expect them to be faithful and loving.

If women were never the cause of men’s getting so hungry they look elsewhere, Dr. Laura would have no market for her books.

Not saying it’s right for a man to stray, and I am not excusing it, but there are things wives can do to keep their men so happy that an 18 year old buxom blonde could wiggle on his lap, and he would ignore her and get up to leave for home. And sex is only one of many.

This probably has little to do with the OP and her problem, though. She said the porn pre-dated the marriage.

Those are really comforting words to a betrayed spouse who discovered her husband had been have sex with who knows how many other women for the past several years. It’s my fault? Thanks. It seems to me that some dude named Adam said the same thing to his wife Eve all those years ago too.

 

[duskyjewel]

Those are really comforting words to a betrayed spouse who discovered her husband had been have sex with who knows how many other women for the past several years. It’s my fault? Thanks. It seems to me that some dude named Adam said the same thing to his wife Eve all those years ago too.

Look, I said many wives, not all wives. Take it personally if you wish. Everything I said is true. I don’t know what’s your fault or not… maybe you just married a bad guy who never intended to stay faithful. Those are out there too. But to say that a woman is NEVER the cause of her husband’s infidelity, which is what I responded to, is not true. Some women are so unappreciative of their husbands that they damage good guys to the point of being so lonely and bereft that they do stupid, horrible, immoral things. Your standard, basic, decent guy is pretty easy to keep happy. You just have to want to do it. If your husband wasn’t the standard, basic, decent guy, then my comments do not apply to you.

And how the heck do Adam and Eve come into this? I was not aware that Adam ever committed adultery?

 

[Ailina]

I ask myself the same question. I think at this point I could live with him as friends, not sure he could. It’s so hard to know what is the right thing to do and the stakes couldn’t be higher. I’ve thought about seperation but don’t think I could really commit myself to him again. I can’t stand his lying anymore.

Can you trust that he will remain with you in the future? Or will he bolt once the kids are gone? It might be time to consider getting some kind of training or education in order to support yourself, just in case.

My ex would not promise that he would stay in our marriage, after I found out about his affairs. I also didn’t want my kids thinking that wives are to be treated so disrespectfully, and that boundaries didn’t matter. I didn’t want them thinking this is what marriage is, not my daughter and especially not my sons. I gave the ex an ultimatum finally, and he chose his sex life over us.

 

[Ailina]

I need Church documents to back up common sense? I never said that the woman would pay the price for his mortal sins, what I said was that she could hurt and reject him so often that it could cause him to fall into sin. People who get what they need don’t go looking for sinful ways to get it. Is it sinful of a woman to reject and criticize her husband to the point where he is so lonely, so defeated, so hungry for affection that he will consider adultery? I think it is…don’t we vow to love and cherish?

This has absolutely nothing to do with the OP, BTW, or with her problem. Just responding to the turn the conversation has taken.

I don’t know…when I think back, I wasn’t getting a whole lot of love and cherishing even before my ex embarked on his deceitful life, and certainly much less after. Funny how he blamed me too. You have no idea how something like this tears you apart inside, and how difficult it is to make sense of it all. I think in my ex’s case, he is trying to fill a void deep within himself because of his lack of belief in anything. Sex has become his anaesthetic to the pain of meaningless living.

 

[EsclavoDeCristo]

Hi,

Not much advice to offer except that as the product of a broken home (I was 8 and my sister was 6), it is NOT fun for the children. Luckily we have a loving father and mother (neither had any of these crazy boyfriend / girlfriend relationships). Our father did not abandon us and loved/loves us terribly. He made every effort to see us and to be involved.

Never the less, our mother had to move us 1,000 miles away to where her family lives in order to be able to support us. I eventually moved back in with my father for high school (leaving my mom and sister 1,000 miles away). There was always drama and internal turmoil within me worrying that no matter what decision I made (who to visit on what holiday, etc) one was going to be upset and disappointed. Also, at the age of 8 my mom told me “you’re the man of the house now”. That was enough pressure to make my head explode!

Combine the stress of mom’s financial struggles, the added pressure of being the “man” of the house with a younger sister and single mother, watching my mother in her emotional fragility and feeling guilty anytime we left from a visit with our father as we watched him cry was really really tough. It was the ultimate helpless feeling.

Look, it was tough, no doubt. However, in hindsight I see that God took care of us all. In the almost 20 years since the divorce God has transformed my life and brought a HUGE amount of healing all around. I count myself blessed to have been able to survive my upbringing which helps me to relate to and minister to others in a similar situation. God gives us what we need but rarely what we want.

My advice: keep praying and trusting in God. Be like the persistent widow with the unjust judge in the bible. Be like St. Monica. This is tough for you and for everyone involved. Courage sister, courage.

 

[Katie1723]

I…she could hurt and reject him so often that it could cause him to fall into sin. People who get what they need don’t go looking for sinful ways to get it. ….

No matter what happened HE made a conscious decision to do wrong. Blame him NOT the woman Your argument could be used to justify any kind of bad behavior simply because “he/she MADE me. If he/she would have done this/that, then I wouldn’t have done what I did” Poor excuse form my point of view.

Kathy

 

[graceandglory]

Is it sinful of a woman to reject and criticize her husband to the point where he is so lonely, so defeated, so hungry for affection

ABSOLUTELY.

that he will consider adultery?

She is not responsible for that. Not every man who is lonely, defeated, and hungry for affection commits adultery.

Who committed the first sin? Adam or Eve?

Totally off topic, but that is where this discussion is headed.

"Each man is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust, and when lust has conceived it gives birth to sin, and when sin is accomplished it brings forth death. Do not be deceived." James 1:15-16

I’m not saying a woman doesn’t bring forth death and even temptation with her words and her actions, but we all have to own our own sin AND GUILT.

 

[graceandglory]

Those are really comforting words to a betrayed spouse who discovered her husband had been have sex with who knows how many other women for the past several years. It’s my fault? Thanks. It seems to me that some dude named Adam said the same thing to his wife Eve all those years ago too.

BINGO!