Anybody coparenting?

[jwashu]

Joe, you are so out of line, it’s sick.

A woman is NEVER the cause of her husband’s infidelity. If there is something wrong with that part of their marriage, it could be because her husband is addicted to PORN. An addiction is such because it destroys the people’s lives around you!

Your profile says that you are a Catholic. Your opinions are neither Catholic nor Christian. You would do well to study Catholic sexual morality. You do seem to have a lot of opinions on the subject, albeit poorly formed. I suggest you get a copy of “Good News for Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West.

For more help for Sexual addictions: sa.org/

Graceandglory,

Thank you for your post but I think you are misinterpreting what I’m saying.

I specifically made it a point, which you didn’t quote, to say that this is something they had to work on TOGETHER.

I specifically said that looking at porn is NOT the thing to do.

I have not read West’s book yet but I have been to a class on it and I agree with it.

I in NO WAY mean to say his infedility NOR his addiction is her fault. What I AM saying though is that marraige is 2 people.

If they are “out of sync” that is something she can’t fix alone nor can he, they must do it together. That out of syncness could be one of his drivers to look at porn. I say driver because I his sin is his own, his choice. Yet we are to work with our spouses because as Married Christians we are partially responsible for the salvation of our spouse (CCC).

When I state the things about porn and secular socity, it’s just that. I’m fully aware that the society in general is out of touch with what we believe. Do not worry, I’m not suggesting that we change that, I’m just stating what I know to be true from a secular standpoint. Thus you are correct, they are not Catholic nor Christian in my understanding but rather what our Society is “preaching.” I’m not sure where you got that I was promoting those but be assured I am not.

I also thank you for your concern, perhaps I did not make some of my points clear and I definitely would not want the OP to think that I was insenuating what you thought I was. Hopefully this follow up post will help make that clear for her and for you.

Sincerely,
Joe

 

[rpp]

I’m sure you have done this but I figured I would make the suggestion anyway…

Have you guys talked about why he is “addicted”? All guys, without the Grace of God (and even many with it) are pretty much enthralled by visual stimulation… hence his porn “addiction.”

I’m putting it in quotes because, as a man, I find it hard to see it as an addiction because addiction means outside the norm in my opinion and the “norm” for society (even many Protestent groups now) is that “marraige enhancers” are A-OK!

As someone stated it takes 2 to make a marraige work, it sounds to me like you are doing everything you can on multiple levels. My suggestion is, what about the 1 level that he seems to be “addicted” to?

You don’t have to answer this on a forum but rather this is just for your consideration. How is your sex life? Is it dull or exciting? Do you guys try things new - different places, positions etc… or is it kind of stale? If the visual turns him on, and he hasn’t had an affiar in years then my guess is that he loves you and still desires you but because of work, kids etc… you guys don’t find the time to renew your marriage covenant often enough.

This is NOT just directed at you. Many men who want more sex eventually find it easier to just pop in a tape or download a video than to try to entice their wife, especailly if they know they are both tired etc… Remember a video never says no

Again, this doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t ever say no though

What I’m suggesting is that perhaps you guys needs to talk about where each of you are sexually. Ask him what he needs from you to feel satisfied so that he doesn’t feel the need to look at porn. Then in turn, tell him what HE needs to do in order for you guys to be able to get there… together.

As a previous poster said, in secular society it’s almost odd for a guy to say he dosen’t look at porn. Even most married women I know (outside of the very religious ones) look at it as well or with their husbands. This is NOT the answer of course. The answer is to become for one another more than any fantisy ever could be.

Even after many of years together, it can be done. Even when our bodies aren’t 20 anymore, it can be done.

You are both in my prayers!

Joe

Dude, aside from being way off topic, what you have expressed here is utterly and absolutely wrong.

Porn is ALWAYS intrinsiclly evil. It exploits those who “perform” it and those who purchase and view it. It portrays the marital embrace as nothing more than scratching and itch and degrades spouses to nothing more than a means of personal pleasure.

Viewing porn is a grave sin. As such, viweing porn is virtually always a mortal sin.

The only people I have encountered who have this attitude are those who themselves are caught up in the absolute an unequivocal evil of porn. There is nothing at all loving, charitable or Catholic in anything that you have expressed in this post.

Father John Corapi once said, “It is never charitable to confirm someone in their [grave] sin.” That is what you are doing here.

There is a reason why women who discover their husbands viewing porn feel the same as if they discovered their husband was having an affair. And people do not have to be Christian to feel that way.

Just because some people say that porn is “normal” does not make it right. Porn is always evil. It has no place in society at all.

I am also disturbed that you imply that her sexuality is someone the cause of his infidelity. That is so wrong, so judgmental, so bad, so groundlkess that there can be no justification whatsoever for this assertion. It just sounds mean-spirited; a “blame the victim” game.

Finally, I would add that we must always remember that before we can receive Holy communion, we cannot be aware of any unconfessed grave sins.

Now back to the subject of should a woman try to keep a loveless marriage intact.

 

[rpp]

I, sadly have been married and divorced twice. Both marriages were before I converted from atheism. My second divorce came in part because I became Catholic and my second wife hated Christianity so much she divorced me and fled the country. Both my marriages have been annulled and I am now single. (Well, almost. I am waiting for the second instance on my second marriage which I expect any day now.)

From my perspective, as long as there is no abuse, whether there are children or not, all reasonable attempts to keep the marriage intact should be tried. Even if that means sleeping in separate rooms essentially permanently. Abuse changes the situation significantly, however.

In the case of my second marriage, there was abuse. My ex-wife had a nasty temper and would periodically lose control and begin slapping and hitting me about the face and neck. Since she was a 5’5", 110 lb woman with a small build and I was a 6’, 250 lb barrel-chested man whose primary form of exercise was weight training, I chose not to defend myself. I mean who would the police believe? That I was only defending myself?

I could tolerate the abuse, but she could not tolerate my refusing to fight back. When I become a Christian, that made it worse for her. She fled the country and filed for divorce from abroad.

 

[jwashu]

Dude, aside from being way off topic, what you have expressed here is utterly and absolutely wrong.

Porn is ALWAYS intrinsiclly evil. It exploits those who “perform” it and those who purchase and view it. It portrays the marital embrace as nothing more than scratching and itch and degrades spouses to nothing more than a means of personal pleasure.

Viewing porn is a grave sin. As such, viweing porn is virtually always a mortal sin.

The only people I have encountered who have this attitude are those who themselves are caught up in the absolute an unequivocal evil of porn. There is nothing at all loving, charitable or Catholic in anything that you have expressed in this post.

Father John Corapi once said, “It is never charitable to confirm someone in their [grave] sin.” That is what you are doing here.

There is a reason why women who discover their husbands viewing porn feel the same as if they discovered their husband was having an affair. And people do not have to be Christian to feel that way.

Just because some people say that porn is “normal” does not make it right. Porn is always evil. It has no place in society at all.

Finally,m I would add that we must always remember that before we can receive Holy communion, we cannot be aware of any unconfessed grave sins.

Now back to the subject of should a woman try to keep a loveless marriage intact.

It’s not off topic and it’s not wrong… read my reply to grace, hopefully that will help.

I’m NOT saying it’s normal, but I’m saying a lot of people feel that way (you said the same thing). Most of the people I know in fact from work or wherever… that is my point. Not that it is, but that society keeps making that arguement and that IS a big problem (for us and especially for our children), I believe from your post you would agree with that.

All I’m suggesting is that the OP and her Husband may need to focus on getting in sync sexually. Again, that is NOT her fault, I believe I made that clear. It’s something THEY must do together.

Finally I NEVER encouraged a grave sin - nor would I do that, read the post again before you accuse someone of such an action.

Joe

 

[jwashu]

Aside from my other post, which got a number of people sidetracked it seems, I would just like to add that I believe you are doing the right thing staying in your marriage.

I don’t know any people in your situation but as some other posters have said, it’s probably better for the kids (I believe you said that as well).

I do, and will pray though, that through time your Husband can get past his “addiction” and begin to focus on you for the obviously loving woman you are.

Sincerely,
Joe

 

[rpp]

It’s not off topic and it’s not wrong… read my reply to grace, hopefully that will help.

I’m NOT saying it’s normal, but I’m saying a lot of people feel that way (you said the same thing). Most of the people I know in fact from work or wherever… that is my point. Not that it is, but that society keeps making that arguement and that IS a big problem (for us and especially for our children), I believe from your post you would agree with that.

All I’m suggesting is that the OP and her Husband may need to focus on getting in sync sexually. Again, that is NOT her fault, I believe I made that clear. It’s something THEY must do together.

Finally I NEVER encouraged a grave sin - nor would I do that, read the post again before you accuse someone of such an action.

Joe

Well, since at least two people interpreted your post in the same manner, perhaps you should restate your post. I mean, to at least two people, it looked like you were blaming the wife for the husband’s infidelity and porn addiction while excusing his porn addiction by claiming there is no such thing as a porn addiction.

If this is not what you mean, then I would suggest that you better clarify your position. You have, after all, managed to convince two people that you like to blame victims and think porn is “A-OK”.

 

[hasikelee]

Wondering if anybody is staying in a marriage just to raise the kids (no emotional intimacy or sexual relationship with the spouse) with the only other option being divorce. My therapist gave it to me as an option.
Does it work for anyone?

I think it depends on the issue causing the strife and the environment given to the kids.

I know it’s anecdotal, but the family across from our street did this for several years. The man was quite selfish (went golfing while the wife was delivering her 1st child BTW) and the woman basically stayed with him for the kids.

Now, despite things that were obviously selfish and what most people would consider wrong, the mand and woman did not have any addictions or emotional/physical abuse. Thus, while the parents may not have been madly in love, the kids were not in an atmosphere of fighting and fear.

For what it’s worth, after about 5 years of this, the man found a new job (without the bad crowd that apparently influenced him ) and bought her a car and a new house and they are currently living several miles away in marital bliss.

So, I would say it might be a good idea only in recognizing that certain things are causing one or both people to feel unloved, but not hurt or in danger.

This could be argued to actually help kids. They will grow up seeing that commitment and sacrifice can help people to develop and stay together. This won’t work if the kids witness consistent violence and anger, of course.

 

[shannyk]

A few weeks ago I thought things were going okay, not great but tolerable, when my daughter found a porn movie downloaded on her computer. She thought it was her brother and went to my husband who admitted that he was the one who watched it. She (17yo) was distraught to find out that the father who has been teaching her chastity could look at people this way. She feels like I did after I found out about the affair. It’s so sad.

Peony if it weren’t for this incident I would have said the ‘coparenting’ thing could work. BUT, this is just…intolerable. It’s no worse than your husband having left illegal drugs out around the house or alcohol available or even a loaded gun unlocked for kids to stumble upon. I doubt even you can fathom what this revelation about her father has done to your daughter. It makes sick to my stomache thinking of the pain she’s (and not to mention YOU) have experienced over this.

I don’t think he can safely reside with you and your children.

My:twocents: …And many prayers your way.

 

[jwashu]

Well, since at least two people interpreted your post in the same manner, perhaps you should restate your post. I mean, to at least two people, it looked like you were blaming the wife for the husband’s infidelity and porn addiction while excusing his porn addiction by claiming there is no such thing as a porn addiction.

If this is not what you mean, then I would suggest that you better clarify your position. You have, after all, managed to convince two people that you like to blame victims and think porn is “A-OK”.

I can no longer edit the post, hopefully my follow ups from your post and graces will help to clear things up.

If it comes across that I’m sugging that it’s the OP fault, I’m not. If it looks like I’m suggeting we as Catholic would feel porn is ok, I’m not.

Thank you for your understanding, I apologize that my post was not specific enough.

Joe

PS - I used the A-OK because there is actually a Protestent group speaking at some of these Mega-Church promoting what I consider “soft porn” as marriage enhancers. Perhaps I should have been more specific on that as well… to be specific, NO I do not condone that and yes I agree, it’s definitely not an “enhancer.” The point though was to be aware that other groups which use the term “Christian” are promoting this and it’s something we should be aware of if we are going to keep our family safe from it.

 

[Peony]

I was just curious how old your second child is?
I’m guessing both of your children are aware now of the issue and you may want to consider some counseling for them as well.

I’m very sorry for your pain and pray that you will find some peace.

I actually have 5 kids and my oldest is the only one who knows.

 

[Peony]

Can you trust that he will remain with you in the future? Or will he bolt once the kids are gone? It might be time to consider getting some kind of training or education in order to support yourself, just in case.

QUOTE]

I am sorry to hear of the obvious pain you’ve been thru. I’m a nurse and can make a good living but raising 5 kids in the northeast is expensive. I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that we won’t be married sometime in the future. I guess I’m trying to hold off the inevitable as long as possible for the sake of my kids.
As far as the bolting once the kids are gone, it may be me doing that. I’ve felt like his mother for too long.

 

[nana3]

Ailina;3367232:

Can you trust that he will remain with you in the future? Or will he bolt once the kids are gone? It might be time to consider getting some kind of training or education in order to support yourself, just in case.

QUOTE]

I’ve felt like his mother for too long.

I know how that feels. Praying for you and your marriage and your children.

 

[NoxSineStellae]

My dad brought a porn video into the house when my little sister and I were 10 & 7. He left it in the VCR, cued to the middle of a sex scene. I stuck it in and played it, watched about 2 minutes in horrified, embarrassed confusion, and took the tape and hid it in the back of the closet.

My dad apparently thought my mom threw it out. My sister found it a little while later, and watched a good deal more than I had. She told our dad, and he told her she could never tell mom, or she would leave, and my sister would be responsible for breaking up the family (same man who told me at 14 that I would be responsible for the deaths of my mother and newborn baby brother, if I didn’t “do more around the house” - I was struggling to keep up with housework, schoolwork, taking care of them, while he went out drinking and God knows what else). I didn’t find out until 15 years later that my sister had seen the tape. It warped her, she became sexually active at 14, did drugs, has had a string of sexual partners even though she claims she hates sex, refuses to marry, etc. I remember her crying every night for ages after this happened, and not knowing why. It makes me sick that I didn’t throw out the tape, and she saw it. I only told my mom what had happened a couple years ago, when I couldn’t take her blaming herself for my sister’s behavior anymore. Dad doesn’t know I saw it, or that mom knows, and he’s always been quite vocal about my sister being a “lying slut”. She’d be 12 and he’d be calling her a slut. Probably because she knew his secrets. It breaks my heart.

Of course, my parents had/have other problems than this. My dad is not a good Christian man, or even a good man. We seriously think he’s a narcissist with sociopathic tendencies and borderline personality disorder. In our case, all 4 of us desperately wish our mom had packed us up and left years ago. We don’t care how hard it would have been, or how much we would have been on our own while mom worked, at least we wouldn’t have been in that highly volatile and terrifying environment.

I’m not saying it’s true in your case, but I disagree that it’s always better for the kids for parents to stay together no matter what.

 

[elt1956]

Can you support that with ANY Church documents?

:nope:

A man is responsible for his own mortal sin.

A woman is responsible for hers.

I would give that a . I have been guilty of the same shifting of responsibility. “If only, he , she, would do this, or not do that, I would be so much happier.” That is called copping out and not taking charge of your own life. Are we happier with some people than others, yes, but we still have the choice of being happy, or unhappy in this present moment, in this time, in this place. No one else is in charge of anyone elses emotions. Are we responsible for our actions that may hurt another, yes.

 

[Peony]

Oh, NoxSine, that is heartbreaking! Is your sister getting any help now? I know you feel terrible about not throwing that film out but you were just a little girl. It wasn’t your fault. I’m so sorry your father didn’t protect you. I’ll pray for your sister and you.

My kids love their father and if he left it would be a great loss to them. But I have given him an ultimatum that if any of the kids are again exposed to porn that he will have to leave. Immediately.
I’ve been talking to my daughter alot about the whole issue to make sure as best I can that it won’t “warp” her. Hopefully, I’m doing enough. (she also has a therapist prior to this issue that she talks to)

I hope that anyone who reads this thread and is telling themselves “I’m not that bad with porn, I don’t do it often, just once in a while…those people are alot worse than me” don’t fool yourself. My husband said he used to tell himself that too.
Now look at my family and NoxSine’s family. It destroys families. Fathers and husbands are called to protect, not abandon and destroy.

 

[jrabs]

I hope that anyone who reads this thread and is telling themselves “I’m not that bad with porn, I don’t do it often, just once in a while…those people are alot worse than me” don’t fool yourself. My husband said he used to tell himself that too.
Now look at my family and NoxSine’s family. It destroys families. Fathers and husbands are called to protect, not abandon and destroy.

Absolutely, porn destroys marriages. My failed marriage tells that story quite well - though along with porn addictions cam come many other sordid problem - lying, cheating and worse.

I have a major problem though with the OP’s choice of terminology “co-parenting”.

What a horrible term. Both of you are parents with responsibility and I think it is an insulting term.
It speaks volumes to underlying problems in your relationship.
To me - it’s like when someone says they are babysitting their own kids.

 

[Peony]

I have a major problem though with the OP’s choice of terminology “co-parenting”.

What a horrible term. Both of you are parents with responsibility and I think it is an insulting term.
It speaks volumes to underlying problems in your relationship.
To me - it’s like when someone says they are babysitting their own kids.

What other word would work better? (Btw, it’s my therapist term)

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I’ve been talking to my daughter alot about the whole issue to make sure as best I can that it won’t “warp” her. Hopefully, I’m doing enough. (she also has a therapist prior to this issue that she talks to).

I am so glad to hear that Peony! I never saw my dad’s pornography, though I did find a dirty keychain once, but my mom told me about it “because she wanted me to know that even good men watch porn.” It really screwed with my head, and she never really discussed it with me again. She never communicated how wrong it was.

Anyway, my mom stayed too because she thought she could protect us better. Unfortunatly, in her case that meant daily emotional and verbal abuse that she didn’t have any control over. It hurt me terribly, both because I was subjected to it and because I watched my dad treat my mom that way. I wish my mom had left when I was in elementary school, before things got really bad. But, thank God, it sounds like your situation is quite different.

Also, I know someone suggested that you stay until the children have moved out. I do not feel qualified to give you advice on staying or leaving, but I did want to mention that divorce is still difficult for adult children. My parents divorced when I was away at college and both seemed to think it would be “easy” for me, and I never received the support I needed to get through that tough time.

 

[newbetx]

Little background might be helpful…
Husband has had a porn/sex addiction since before our marriage. I’m been unhappy for almost 2 decades now but kept trying to make it work. I’m at the giving up stage. I’ve forgiven him for affairs (one during which I was pregnant—we practiced NFP). I’ve given him multiple chances to turn this around. We’ve been in counseling since the first affair. He knows what to do, he just can’t commit to it. He says he will but his actions are the opposite.
A few weeks ago I thought things were going okay, not great but tolerable, when my daughter found a porn movie downloaded on her computer. She thought it was her brother and went to my husband who admitted that he was the one who watched it. She (17yo) was distraught to find out that the father who has been teaching her chastity could look at people this way. She feels like I did after I found out about the affair. It’s so sad.

I have no inclination to date as I see men with sex addiction everywhere now. It’s hard for them not to be in this society. Even the Christian men. I read somewhere that porn is the Christian man’s drug of choice.

I’ve gotten to the point where I can empathize that my husband has to deal with this addiction but I don’t want to be vulnerable or intimate with a man who can’t stop lying and get real.

It’s about my kids now.

Here’s something that may help. I read the predicessor book, but I’ve not tried the CDs.
familysafemedia.com/drug_of_the_new_millennium_6_c.html
There is a pointer to a recovery program on that page, too.
And I’d put a strong hidden filter for porn on all the computers. I use sentry parental controls. It’s REALLY tight… kids can’t get to some pages for health class and I’m blocked from some CAF threads! but it’s adjustable by the person that knows the password. He needs to face the fact that HE has a problem. It’s now known by the kids.

I’m so sorry.

 

[KCT]

Does he want to attempt to stop looking at porn? If so, you set up the toughest filter you can find and keep the password to yourself.

It won’t help away from home, but it will help your kids.