Anybody here interested in homesteading?

[Denise1957]

Has anyone here read any of Gene Logsdon’s books on farming? He has a website called The Contrary Farmer:

thecontraryfarmer.wordpress.com/

I read several of his books a few years ago. He farms in Ohio, and advocates using draft horses for plowing. I can’t remember if it was him (or Wendell Berry) who did a cost analysis of draft horses vs. mechanical equipment for plowing, but draft horses ended up being less expensive. But a maximum of about 80 acres can really be plowed effectively with horses. Gene Logsdon is Catholic, I think, but definately not of a Luddite mentality. He’s very practical.

I’ve never lived on a farm, or even outside of a big city, but I gleaned as many stories as I could from my grandmother who died at the age of 96 a few years ago. She had many wonderful stories of farm life from when she was a child. It’s interesting that Americans could live with so much less then, than what they (we) have now.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I’ve never lived on a farm, or even outside of a big city, but I gleaned as many stories as I could from my grandmother who died at the age of 96 a few years ago. She had many wonderful stories of farm life from when she was a child. It’s interesting that Americans could live with so much less then, than what they (we) have now.

How many of her siblings died as young children? Did her mother die in childbirth? That was very common in those days, usually by infection from the doctor or the surroundings. My father lost 4 siblings before they were 5 years old, and 1 baby that died shortly after his mother did, from infection. Farm life is HARD, physically. It was especially hard when there were no modern conveniences. The life span was shorter, especially for women. Of course people could live with much less then, it hadn’t been invented and if it had, most of them couldn’t afford it!

My dad never gave me any impression that farm life was some kind of utopia. Someone up the thread suggested a book called “Back to Eden.” Well, we can’t go back to Eden, and this earth will never be Eden, so trying to go backward is (no pun intended) fruitless.

 

[Fairwinds]

now we see the pervasive effect of too much Farmville.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

now we see the pervasive effect of too much Farmville.

Having a real farm is nothing like having a couple of chickens in your back yard. Most of the people who lived and worked on farms are only too happy to have gotten out of that life.

 

[KellyPalmer]

Having a real farm is nothing like having a couple of chickens in your back yard. Most of the people who lived and worked on farms are only too happy to have gotten out of that life.

No one suggested that having a real farm was anything like having a couple of chickens in your backyard. I don’t think you are qualified to speak for most people who have lived and worked on farms.

 

[KellyPalmer]

How many of her siblings died as young children? Did her mother die in childbirth? That was very common in those days, usually by infection from the doctor or the surroundings. My father lost 4 siblings before they were 5 years old, and 1 baby that died shortly after his mother did, from infection. Farm life is HARD, physically. It was especially hard when there were no modern conveniences. The life span was shorter, especially for women. Of course people could live with much less then, it hadn’t been invented and if it had, most of them couldn’t afford it!

My dad never gave me any impression that farm life was some kind of utopia. Someone up the thread suggested a book called “Back to Eden.” Well, we can’t go back to Eden, and this earth will never be Eden, so trying to go backward is (no pun intended) fruitless.

No one suggested a book called “Back to Eden”. I suggested a film called Back to Eden and I would recommend taking a moment to familiarize yourself with something before commenting against something. The film does not suggest going back to Eden or trying to go backwards at all. The film is about paying attention to the way God designed the earth to function without humans and designing our farms to mimic his design instead of our own. This after noticing that the forest was not destroyed by the drought that his own farm was plagued with. While the trees in his orchard where dying from lack of water, he took a few steps into the woods and dug under the layers of leaves to find wet soil! No one tills the forest! The basic premise is that the soil is alive (contains billions of microorganisms) and must be covered to provide the best resistance against the modern problems that plague farming (pests, drought, weeds, erosion, etc) as God naturally designed the earth to cover it’s own soil. You’ll never walk into a forest and find uncovered dirt unless man has come and messed with it. The method described in the film involves no tilling at all and no crop rotation. I have implemented this into my own farming and it has worked beautifully! Definitely not fruitless! The idea isn’t to physically go back to Eden but to mentally consider back in Eden before man had to plow. Plowing the earth did not begin until after the fall. The idea is to consider how God planned the earth to provide food and using that as our basis for designing our own farms.

Additionally, I’d say the lifespan being shorter many years ago had less to do with homesteading and more to do with lack of antibiotics and medical care. The importance of something even as basic as handwashing wasn’t realized until the well into the 20th century. Sanitation and clean water methods have improved drastically and those can be taken advantage of in modern homesteading as well. No one is suggesting that anyone ignore advancements or go back in time.

 

[Denise1957]

How many of her siblings died as young children? Did her mother die in childbirth? That was very common in those days, usually by infection from the doctor or the surroundings. My father lost 4 siblings before they were 5 years old, and 1 baby that died shortly after his mother did, from infection. Farm life is HARD, physically. It was especially hard when there were no modern conveniences. The life span was shorter, especially for women. Of course people could live with much less then, it hadn’t been invented and if it had, most of them couldn’t afford it!

My dad never gave me any impression that farm life was some kind of utopia. Someone up the thread suggested a book called “Back to Eden.” Well, we can’t go back to Eden, and this earth will never be Eden, so trying to go backward is (no pun intended) fruitless.

One of my grandmother’s siblings died at the age of two, from diptheria, I think. But no, her mother did not die in childbirth. In fact, I spent a lot of time with my grandmother’s mother (my great-grandmother) as a child. She lived to be 87. She was a lapsed Quaker, and very kind and practical. All of my grandmother’s siblings lived into their 90’s, though one is still living.

The 1918 flu epidemic did hit the little farm community (in Colorado). My grandmother, at age 5, was the only one in the family who did not get sick. Her mother had her help out to care for everyone, giving instruction from her sickbed. When my great-grandmother got well, she went to care for a neighbor, a man who was very ill with the flu, and had 10 children. He lived, as did his family, and everyone in my grandmother’s family. Not all communities fared so well during that epidemic, though…sadly. Though I think that even people who lived in cities at that time died from the flu.

I hope that I did not give the impression that farm life is some sort of utopia. It certainly is not. It’s hard, hard work, and not for the faint of heart.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

One of my grandmother’s siblings died at the age of two, from diptheria, I think. But no, her mother did not die in childbirth. In fact, I spent a lot of time with my grandmother’s mother (my great-grandmother) as a child. She lived to be 87. She was a lapsed Quaker, and very kind and practical. All of my grandmother’s siblings lived into their 90’s, though one is still living.

The 1918 flu epidemic did hit the little farm community (in Colorado). My grandmother, at age 5, was the only one in the family who did not get sick. Her mother had her help out to care for everyone, giving instruction from her sickbed. When my great-grandmother got well, she went to care for a neighbor, a man who was very ill with the flu, and had 10 children. He lived, as did his family, and everyone in my grandmother’s family. Not all communities fared so well during that epidemic, though…sadly. Though I think that even people who lived in cities at that time died from the flu.

I hope that I did not give the impression that farm life is some sort of utopia. It certainly is not. It’s hard, hard work, and not for the faint of heart.

Your family was the exception, and that’s wonderful. No, you didn’t necessarily give the impression that farm life is a utopia, but threads like this, coming from people who have actually never experienced life on a farm without technology, have a tendency to be closer to fiction than reality. It’s always struck me how people who have never farmed can look at that life and idealize it, while many people who grew up on farms try their damnedest to get out as soon as possible.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No one suggested a book called “Back to Eden”. I suggested a film called Back to Eden and I would recommend taking a moment to familiarize yourself with something before commenting against something. The film does not suggest going back to Eden or trying to go backwards at all. The film is about paying attention to the way God designed the earth to function without humans and designing our farms to mimic his design instead of our own. This after noticing that the forest was not destroyed by the drought that his own farm was plagued with. While the trees in his orchard where dying from lack of water, he took a few steps into the woods and dug under the layers of leaves to find wet soil! No one tills the forest! The basic premise is that the soil is alive (contains billions of microorganisms) and must be covered to provide the best resistance against the modern problems that plague farming (pests, drought, weeds, erosion, etc) as God naturally designed the earth to cover it’s own soil. You’ll never walk into a forest and find uncovered dirt unless man has come and messed with it. The method described in the film involves no tilling at all and no crop rotation. I have implemented this into my own farming and it has worked beautifully! Definitely not fruitless! The idea isn’t to physically go back to Eden but to mentally consider back in Eden before man had to plow. Plowing the earth did not begin until after the fall. The idea is to consider how God planned the earth to provide food and using that as our basis for designing our own farms.

Additionally, I’d say the lifespan being shorter many years ago had less to do with homesteading and more to do with lack of antibiotics and medical care. The importance of something even as basic as handwashing wasn’t realized until the well into the 20th century. Sanitation and clean water methods have improved drastically and those can be taken advantage of in modern homesteading as well. No one is suggesting that anyone ignore advancements or go back in time.

Can farming like this sustain the 300 million people who currently live in the United States? It’s nice to have small farms if individuals have the time to run them, but how would we actually feed our population this way?

 

[GEddie]

Can farming like this sustain the 300 million people who currently live in the United States? It’s nice to have small farms if individuals have the time to run them, but how would we actually feed our population this way?

In all likelihood not.

Down to nature agriculture of the 1800s and early 1900s was quite exhaustive of the land.

Modern NA has droughts; earlier centuries had famines.

ICXC NIKA

 

[KellyPalmer]

Can farming like this sustain the 300 million people who currently live in the United States? It’s nice to have small farms if individuals have the time to run them, but how would we actually feed our population this way?

This is off-topoc from the thread. Thats fine but i just want to make the distinction because a lot of responses seem to be arguing things that havent been suggested. That said, I can’t think of any reason why it couldn’t. In fact, it would be more likely too because I works better. Can you explain a reason why it would not? Farms do not have to be small to be run this way. Have you seen how much land has been destroyed and now unable to be farmed n/c of the current mainstream practices? We may have no other choice in the future.

 

[KellyPalmer]

In all likelihood not.

Down to nature agriculture of the 1800s and early 1900s was quite exhaustive of the land.

Modern NA has droughts; earlier centuries had famines.

ICXC NIKA

They didn’t farm like this in the 1800s and 1900s so that’s not really relevant to the question you are answering. Additionally, the way we’ve been doing things in recent years is significantly more exhausting on the land than they were in the 1800s and earlier 1900s so by your own argument our current standard methods won’t be able to feed the population either.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This is off-topoc from the thread. Thats fine but i just want to make the distinction because a lot of responses seem to be arguing things that havent been suggested. That said, I can’t think of any reason why it couldn’t. In fact, it would be more likely too because I works better. Can you explain a reason why it would not? Farms do not have to be small to be run this way. Have you seen how much land has been destroyed and now unable to be farmed n/c of the current mainstream practices? We may have no other choice in the future.

How can it be off-topic? The OP wanted to discuss homesteading, which isn’t practical for most people in America of 2013. It’s fine if people can do it, but there are so many people that if the larger cities were de-populated, and everyone went to try and find land to farm, it would be a disaster.

 

[KellyPalmer]

How can it be off-topic? The OP wanted to discuss homesteading, which isn’t practical for most people in America of 2013. It’s fine if people can do it, but there are so many people that if the larger cities were de-populated, and everyone went to try and find land to farm, it would be a disaster.

Because homesteading is almost the complete opposite of sustaining the entire 300 million people that live in the United States. It might help if you familiarize yourself with the definition of homesteading.

Additionally, she is not suggesting that all American citizens homestead but rather she is suggesting that it would be a good idea for traditional Catholics to invest in the homsteading movement. She is suggesting that a Catholic homsteading movement should rise up, not that every single person should become a homesteader. The point of homesteading is self-sufficiency, not providing for the masses however it should be stated that this type of living comes far closer to providing for the masses than simply relying on big-agriculture which is the farthest one comes from proving for the masses.

It should also be pointed out again, that there is such a thing as urban homesteading as well, that doesn’t require land. As I mentioned before, my sister lives in NYC and works in this culture and produces a radio show on the subject.

 

[mommamaree]

There also is such a thing as backyard homesteading, aka urban homesteading. Google it and you will find that there are lots of people out there who are not mere hobby gardeners, but are really improving self-sufficiency and reducing dependency, as well as resurrecting skills that were nearly lost. No one is saying everyone must grow all their own food and raise chickens and milk cows. But there are lots of resources for people who DO want to do these things, either for financial reasons or for the satisfaction of being able to go out into one’s own yard and bring in food for dinner.
If people transformed lawns into edible gardens, they COULD go a long way toward self-sufficiency, just throughout making small changes with growing a new food or putting in a new raised bed each season. That is what we are doing.
But no one is saying this has to be large-scale agriculture or that iit is a must for everyone. It is just something fun and interesting for those who want to do this.

 

[Musician]

I guess you could call us urban homesteaders, although we live outside the town proper. We have one acre and put it to good use. We have had livestock such as cows, pigs, chickens, etc. Our vegetable garden is well-stocked and gives us lots of produce. We free-range our animals and don’t use pesticides or insecticides. My DH is a scientist who is very environmentally-minded. Although we are on the grid as far as utilities, we are hoping to implement more innovative strategies for saving energy. We already use some solar/wind energy.
We lived in Europe for ten years and really, they just about all have gardens or a spot in the community garden. We fit right in.
Most of this is to save money, which it does, but there is also an element of wanting to live a life of simplicity.

 

[Fairwinds]

what percentage of the population is actually zoned for this? I do NOT want the stench of cattle or a slaughterhouse wafting over my suburban fence.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

what percentage of the population is actually zoned for this? I do NOT want the stench of cattle or a slaughterhouse wafting over my suburban fence.

Not a whole lot, but the urban chicken ranchers just go ahead and do it anyway.

 

[Fairwinds]

Not a whole lot, but the urban chicken ranchers just go ahead and do it anyway.

filthy brutes (the chickens, I mean). economies of scale put their eggs in the supermarket, where they belong.

 

[ManOnFire]

It’s quite funny to see the difference between the people who are actively resisting the secular media culture’s attempts to slowly drag us into atheism and dependency versus the people who have been converted into soldiers to support the secular media movement, and some of them are actually Catholic. It’s almost as if God isn’t really God anymore. The entertainment offered by the unelected media has become many people’s god, and they believe the church should bend to allow it, because, after all, it’s vey entertaining and makes people feel good. I guess many people refuse to see the cause of the increasing love of Self and rising dependency. If they don’t want to homestead, the least they can do is not actively contribute to our downfall by fighting for the secular media’s army. Sheesh.