B
bstn4e1
Guest
Is ther mention of hell in the OT? What do Jews believe about hell?
- Status
D
dmar198
Guest
The concept of a afterlife of torment for wicked men was indeed developed in the Old Testament, but it was developed gradually. You will find fewer mentions of it in the first five books of the Bible, but in the later books you will certainly find it.
Deuteronomy 32:22 is probably the earliest reference to something like hell; it is describing God’s anger for Israel when they rebelled against them, and it says, “For a fire is kindled by my anger,and it burns to the depths of Sheol,devours the earth and its increase,and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.”
Isaiah 66:24: “look on the dead bodies of the men that have rebelled against me; for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
Daniel 12: verses 2 and 10 mention heaven, hell and purgatory all together: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. … Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand.”
Judith 16:17 also mentions hell: “Woe to the nations that rise up against my people! The Lord Almighty will take vengeance on them in the day of judgment; fire and worms he will give to their flesh; they shall weep in pain for ever.”
Someone on another website compiled all of these possible Old Testament references to hell: Deut. 32:22; Psams 9:17; 55:15; Proverbs 15:11, 24; 23:13-14; Isaiah 5:14; 14:12-15; 33:14; 66:22-24; Daniel 7:9-11; 12:2.
I hope that helps. God bless!
-Dmar198
B
bstn4e1
Guest
Thank you for your help. It had been bothering me that i didn,t know. I am Catholic and have learned a lot since my reversion 6 years ago.
E
Eucharisted
Guest
Hell is a part of Jewish oral tradition. Which is where the Church picked it up from.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Not all Jews believe in Hell. The couple who lives next door to me (wife 77, husband 80) are Jewish. In respect for their privacy, I will call them Sarah and Abraham. They are devout Jews, and I am inspired by their devotion to God. We have had many long discussions on religion and the Bible, always with respect–no efforts to proselytize on either side. I have visited their Temple–great experience.
They are completely unconcerned with their fate in the afterlife. They serve God, because He is God. They base their lives on loving God and loving their fellowman. (Sounds very “Christian,” but don’t forget, Jesus was a Jew.) They have helped so many people in so many ways; it puts me to shame, when I think of my own life.
Sarah told me awhile ago, that Abraham still sends checks to help support a group of Catholic Nuns, who helped Jews escape during the Holocaust. The Nuns ended up in the U.S. Sarah said, most have died as the years have passed; but a few of the Nuns still survive—Abraham keeps sending checks to help with their support. What a witness to all of us.
Once, I asked Sarah if she believed in Hell. She said if God is a loving God, wouldn’t he forgive?
I have read Jewish authors who say the Christian obsession with the afterlife is narcissistic. I am inclined to agree.
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
When I first read the O.T. all the way through, I remember thinking, where is the threat of eternal torment?
Genesis tells reveals the punishment of “death.”
“Eternal fire” in not synonymous with “eternal torment.” The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah demonstrates this point.
Sodom and Gomorrah were completely destroyed. Yet, Jude 7, says, “They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.” The fires of Sodom and Gomorrah burned, until all was consumed. The fires are not still burning today, nor will they be burning for all eternity. Again, eternal fire is not equivalent to eternal torment.
In Malachi we find a clear statement of the annihilation of the wicked, who will be “stubble,” and who will be “ashes under the soles of your feet.” This is death/eternal destruction/annihilation.
Ezekiel tells us, “the soul who sins shall die.”
Psalms tell us, “the wicked will perish” and “vanish like smoke.”
So, far: no threat of eternal torment.
Continued next Post.
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Continued–Is Hell in the Old Testament?
Isaiah 66 is best taken in context of the whole Chapter:
Isaiah 66
1 This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?
2 Has not my hand made all these things,
and so they came into being?"
declares the LORD.
"This is the one I esteem:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit,
and trembles at my word.
3 But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a man,
and whoever offers a lamb,
like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
whoever makes a grain offering
is like one who presents pig’s blood,
and whoever burns memorial incense,
like one who worships an idol.
They have chosen their own ways,
and their souls delight in their abominations;
4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and will bring upon them what they dread.
For when I called, no one answered,
when I spoke, no one listened.
They did evil in my sight
and chose what displeases me."
5 Hear the word of the LORD,
you who tremble at his word:
"Your brothers who hate you,
and exclude you because of my name, have said,
‘Let the LORD be glorified,
that we may see your joy!’
Yet they will be put to shame.
6 Hear that uproar from the city,
hear that noise from the temple!
It is the sound of the LORD
repaying his enemies all they deserve.
7 "Before she goes into labor,
she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9 Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?" says the LORD.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10 “**Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her.
**
11 For you will nurse and be satisfied
at her comforting breasts;
you will drink deeply
and delight in her overflowing abundance.”
12 For this is what the LORD says:
"I will extend peace to her like a river,
and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
you will nurse and be carried on her arm
and dandled on her knees.
13 As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
14 When you see this, your heart will rejoice
and you will flourish like grass;
the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants,
but his fury will be shown to his foes.
15 **See, the LORD is coming with fire,
and his chariots are like a whirlwind;
he will bring down his anger with fury,
and his rebuke with flames of fire. **
16 **For with fire and with his sword
the LORD will execute judgment upon all men,
and many will be those slain by the LORD. **
17 “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of [a] those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together,” declares the LORD.
18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come ** and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.
19 "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations—to Tarshish, to the Libyans [c] and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. **They will proclaim my glory among the nations. **
20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD -on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the LORD. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the LORD.
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24** “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies** of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Footnotes:
a. Isaiah 66:17 Or gardens behind one of your temples, and
b. Isaiah 66:18 The meaning of the Hebrew for this clause is uncertain.
c. Isaiah 66:19 Some Septuagint manuscripts Put (Libyans Hebrew Pul
Notice the wicked are dead, this is not a picture of eternal torment. An unquenchable fire burns until all is consumed.
Isaiah 66:24: “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
I did not find a threat of eternal torment anyplace in the Old Testament. Someone may be able to quote something I missed.
Some Jews do believe eternal torment; other Jews see Hell on the Way to Heaven; others believe in the transmigration of the soul. Here are some links from quick searches. You can research easily on the Internet:
Ask Rabbi Simmons
Link: Does Judaism Believe in an Afterlife?
Hell on the Way to Heaven
by Rabbi Dov Pinson
Link: http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/239,18913/Hell-on-the-Way-to-Heaven.html
Anna**
Isaiah 66 is best taken in context of the whole Chapter:
Isaiah 66
1 This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?
2 Has not my hand made all these things,
and so they came into being?"
declares the LORD.
"This is the one I esteem:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit,
and trembles at my word.
3 But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a man,
and whoever offers a lamb,
like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
whoever makes a grain offering
is like one who presents pig’s blood,
and whoever burns memorial incense,
like one who worships an idol.
They have chosen their own ways,
and their souls delight in their abominations;
4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and will bring upon them what they dread.
For when I called, no one answered,
when I spoke, no one listened.
They did evil in my sight
and chose what displeases me."
5 Hear the word of the LORD,
you who tremble at his word:
"Your brothers who hate you,
and exclude you because of my name, have said,
‘Let the LORD be glorified,
that we may see your joy!’
Yet they will be put to shame.
6 Hear that uproar from the city,
hear that noise from the temple!
It is the sound of the LORD
repaying his enemies all they deserve.
7 "Before she goes into labor,
she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9 Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?" says the LORD.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10 “**Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her.
**
11 For you will nurse and be satisfied
at her comforting breasts;
you will drink deeply
and delight in her overflowing abundance.”
12 For this is what the LORD says:
"I will extend peace to her like a river,
and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
you will nurse and be carried on her arm
and dandled on her knees.
13 As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
14 When you see this, your heart will rejoice
and you will flourish like grass;
the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants,
but his fury will be shown to his foes.
15 **See, the LORD is coming with fire,
and his chariots are like a whirlwind;
he will bring down his anger with fury,
and his rebuke with flames of fire. **
16 **For with fire and with his sword
the LORD will execute judgment upon all men,
and many will be those slain by the LORD. **
17 “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of [a] those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together,” declares the LORD.
18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come ** and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.
19 "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations—to Tarshish, to the Libyans [c] and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. **They will proclaim my glory among the nations. **
20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD -on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the LORD. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the LORD.
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24** “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies** of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Footnotes:
a. Isaiah 66:17 Or gardens behind one of your temples, and
b. Isaiah 66:18 The meaning of the Hebrew for this clause is uncertain.
c. Isaiah 66:19 Some Septuagint manuscripts Put (Libyans Hebrew Pul
Notice the wicked are dead, this is not a picture of eternal torment. An unquenchable fire burns until all is consumed.
Isaiah 66:24: “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
I did not find a threat of eternal torment anyplace in the Old Testament. Someone may be able to quote something I missed.
Some Jews do believe eternal torment; other Jews see Hell on the Way to Heaven; others believe in the transmigration of the soul. Here are some links from quick searches. You can research easily on the Internet:
Ask Rabbi Simmons
Link: Does Judaism Believe in an Afterlife?
Hell on the Way to Heaven
by Rabbi Dov Pinson
Link: http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/239,18913/Hell-on-the-Way-to-Heaven.html
Anna**
D
dmar198
Guest
Existing without God for all eternity is to be cut off from all that is holy and good – the word death is used in this sense. The wicked are dead to holiness even in this life – Psalms 88:3-6. So it does not have to mean “total obliteration” and by comparing passage with passage, we find that when Scripture says that the wicked shall die, it CANNOT mean that their existence is obliterated, because the soul is immortal: “do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul,” (Matthew 10:28) because the soul survives the death of the body. “Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell,” because as the body is consumed by worms forever, so the soul is consumed by fire forever: “And they shall go forth and look on the dead bodies of the men that have rebelled against me; for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” (Isaiah 66:24)
Jude 1:7 does NOT say that Sodom and Gomorrah suffered eternal fire; rather, they were an EXAMPLE for those who shall! The fire that destroyed them in this life FORESHADOWS the eternal fire that shall destroy the enemies of God in the next life – why would you say that the shadow was equal to the substance which it was a mere shadow of? Is it not greater to say that the substance is greater, more enduring, and more lamentable than the foreshadowing flame that destroyed these two cities?
By describing Hell as an eternal fire Scripture is telling us that hell will be an eternal torment – for what is the difference between saying that an eternal fire will consume a soul forever, (which requires that the soul be immortal,) and between saying that hell is an eternal torment? There is no difference – if the soul is unconscious, then the fire is no punishment at all.
Eternal destruction, that is fine – being destroyed, consumed, punished forever is eternal torment. That does not describe a total annihilation, but the eternal torment of those who are always to be consumed, and this eternal consuming is supposed to be a punishment. How can it be a punishment, if they are not aware of it for the greater part of eternity? So they must be aware for eternity (i.e. immortal) and in torment for just as long.
It amazes me that you can stare at a passage which describes eternal fire as a punishment for the wicked, and yet you can say that you do not see eternal torment anywhere. This is explicit about an eternal, fiery punishment – what is the difference between that and eternal torment, I ask you?
D
dmar198
Guest
Continued–Is Hell in the Old Testament?
Isaiah 66 is best taken in context of the whole Chapter:
Isaiah 66
1 This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?
2 Has not my hand made all these things,
and so they came into being?"
declares the LORD.
"This is the one I esteem:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit,
and trembles at my word.
3 But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a man,
and whoever offers a lamb,
like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
whoever makes a grain offering
is like one who presents pig’s blood,
and whoever burns memorial incense,
like one who worships an idol.
They have chosen their own ways,
and their souls delight in their abominations;
4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and will bring upon them what they dread.
For when I called, no one answered,
when I spoke, no one listened.
They did evil in my sight
and chose what displeases me."
5 Hear the word of the LORD,
you who tremble at his word:
"Your brothers who hate you,
and exclude you because of my name, have said,
‘Let the LORD be glorified,
that we may see your joy!’
Yet they will be put to shame.
6 Hear that uproar from the city,
hear that noise from the temple!
It is the sound of the LORD
repaying his enemies all they deserve.
7 "Before she goes into labor,
she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9 Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?" says the LORD.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10 “**Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her.
**
11 For you will nurse and be satisfied
at her comforting breasts;
you will drink deeply
and delight in her overflowing abundance.”
12 For this is what the LORD says:
"I will extend peace to her like a river,
and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
you will nurse and be carried on her arm
and dandled on her knees.
13 As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
14 When you see this, your heart will rejoice
and you will flourish like grass;
the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants,
but his fury will be shown to his foes.
15 **See, the LORD is coming with fire,
and his chariots are like a whirlwind;
he will bring down his anger with fury,
and his rebuke with flames of fire. **
16 For with fire and with his sword
the LORD will execute judgment upon all men,
and many will be those slain by the LORD.
17 “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of [a] those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together,” declares the LORD.
18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come ** and gather all nations and tongues**, and they will come and see my glory.
19 "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations—to Tarshish, to the Libyans [c] and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. **They will proclaim my glory among the nations. **
20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD -on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the LORD. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the LORD.
22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24** “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies** of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Footnotes:
a. Isaiah 66:17 Or gardens behind one of your temples, and
b. Isaiah 66:18 The meaning of the Hebrew for this clause is uncertain.
c. Isaiah 66:19 Some Septuagint manuscripts Put (Libyans Hebrew Pul
Notice the wicked are dead, this is not a picture of eternal torment. An unquenchable fire burns until all is consumed.
Isaiah 66:24: “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
I did not find a threat of eternal torment anyplace in the Old Testament. Someone may be able to quote something I missed.
Some Jews do believe eternal torment; other Jews see Hell on the Way to Heaven; others believe in the transmigration of the soul. Here are some links from quick searches. You can research easily on the Internet:
Ask Rabbi Simmons
Link: Does Judaism Believe in an Afterlife?
Hell on the Way to Heaven
by Rabbi Dov Pinson
Link: http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/239,18913/Hell-on-the-Way-to-Heaven.html
Anna
dmar198;5807695:
Click the blue arrow in this box for my answer
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
I am aware of the Catholic viewpoint.
Adam and Eve brought death upon us, not eternal torment.
The N.T. tells us the wages of sin is death. It also tells us that through Christ we will inherit eternal life. Eternal torment is still eternal life.
What did Christ conquer? He conquered death.
You just quoted Matthew 10: 28, which clearly says to fear him who can “destroy both soul and body.” It does not say fear the one who can destroy the body and eternally torment the soul.
Matthew 10: 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[a]
Footnotes:
- Matthew 10:28 Greek Gehenna
In most Bible translations the word “hell” is used for Gehenna, Sheol, Tartaroo, and Hades. And they do not all mean the same thing.
It’s 2:19 a.m. here, so I am too tired to define all of these for you. You can probably find them in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Google search will bring them up quickly.
If the price or the wages of sin is eternal torment, then how could Christ have paid the price for our sins, without spending eternity in torment in our place?
In every blood atonement throughout the O.T., the sacrifice was slain in a humane way.
Sins were atoned for by a blood sacrifice, not tormenting the sacrifice.
Must get some sleep,
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Re: Is there mention of hell in the OT? What do Jews believe about hell?
Since the OP is asking what the Jews believe about hell, I have provided another Quote. This is only one Jewish viewpoint and it includes** Gehinom (“Gehenna” or “Purgatory”)**, which I talked about in a previous post.
Link: chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm
What Happens After We Die?, By Shlomo Yaffe and Yanki Tauber
"What is Heaven and Hell?
Heaven and hell is where the soul receives its punishment and reward after death. Yes, Judaism believes in, and Jewish traditional sources extensively discuss, punishment and reward in the afterlife (indeed, it is one of the “Thirteen Principles” of Judaism enumerated by Maimonides). But these are a very different “heaven” and “hell” than what one finds described in medieval Christian texts or New Yorker cartoons. Heaven is not a place of halos and harps, nor is hell populated by those red creatures with pitchforks depicted on the label of non-kosher canned meat.
After death, the soul returns to its Divine Source, together with all the G-dliness it has “extracted” from the physical world by using it for meaningful purposes. The soul now relives its experiences on another plane, and experiences the good it accomplished during its physical lifetime as incredible happiness and pleasure, and the negative as incredibly painful.
This pleasure and pain are not reward and punishment in the conventional sense–in the sense that we might punish a criminal by sending him to jail or reward a dedicated employee with a raise. It is rather that we experience our own life in its reality–a reality from which we were sheltered during our physical lifetimes. We experience the true import and effect of our actions. Turning up the volume on that TV set with that symphony orchestra can be intensely pleasurable or intensely painful,8–depending on how we played the music of our lives.
**When the soul departs from the body, it stands before the Heavenly Court to give a “judgment and accounting” of its earthly life.**9 But the Heavenly Court only does the “accounting” part; the “judgment” part–that only the soul itself can do.10 Only the soul can pass judgment on itself–only it can know and sense the true extent of what it accomplished, or neglected to accomplish, in the course of its physical life. Freed from the limitations and concealments of the physical state, it can now see G-dliness; it can now look back at its own life and experience what it truly was. The soul’s experience of the G-dliness it brought into the world with its mitzvot and positive actions is the exquisite pleasure of Gan Eden (the “Garden of Eden”–i.e., Paradise); its experience of the destructiveness it wrought through its lapses and transgressions is the excruciating pain of Gehinom ("Gehenna" or “Purgatory”).
The truth hurts. The truth also cleanses and heals. **The spiritual pain of gehinom–the soul’s pain in facing the truth of its life–cleanses and heals the soul of the spiritual stains and blemishes that its failings and misdeeds have attached to it. **Freed of this husk of negativity, the soul is now able to fully enjoy the immeasurable good that its life engendered and “bask in the Divine radiance” emitted by the G-dliness it brought into the world.
For a G-dly soul spawns far more good in its lifetime than evil. The core of the soul is unadulterated goodness; the good we accomplish is infinite, the evil but shallow and superficial. So even the most wicked of souls, say our sages, experiences, at most, twelve months of gehinom, followed by an eternity of heaven. Furthermore, a soul’s experience of gehinom can be mitigated by the action of his or her children and loved ones, here on earth. Reciting Kaddish and engaging in other good deeds “in merit of” and “for the elevation of” the departed soul means that the soul, in effect, is continuing to act positively upon the physical world, thereby adding to the goodness of its physical lifetime.11
The soul, on its part, remains involved in the lives of those it leaves behind when it departs physical life. The soul of a parent continues to watch over the lives of his/her children and grandchildren, to derive pride (or pain) from their deeds and accomplishments, and to intercede on their behalf before the Heavenly Throne; the same applies to those to whom a soul was connected with bonds of love, friendship and community. In fact, because the soul is no longer constricted by the limitations of the physical state, its relationship with its loved ones is, in many ways, even deeper and more meaningful than before.
However, while the departed soul is aware and cognizant of all that transpires in the lives of its loved ones, the souls remaining in the physical word are limited to what they can perceive via the five senses as facilitated by their physical bodies. We can impact the soul of a departed loved one through our positive actions, but we cannot communicate with it through conventional means (speech, sight, physical contact, etc.) that, prior to its passing, defined the way that we related to each other. (Indeed, the Torah expressly forbids the idolatrous practices of necromancy, mediumism and similar attempts to “make contact” with the world of the dead.) Hence the occurrence of death, while signifying an elevation for the soul of the departed, is experienced as a tragic loss for those it leaves behind."
Anna
Since the OP is asking what the Jews believe about hell, I have provided another Quote. This is only one Jewish viewpoint and it includes** Gehinom (“Gehenna” or “Purgatory”)**, which I talked about in a previous post.
Link: chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm
What Happens After We Die?, By Shlomo Yaffe and Yanki Tauber
"What is Heaven and Hell?
Heaven and hell is where the soul receives its punishment and reward after death. Yes, Judaism believes in, and Jewish traditional sources extensively discuss, punishment and reward in the afterlife (indeed, it is one of the “Thirteen Principles” of Judaism enumerated by Maimonides). But these are a very different “heaven” and “hell” than what one finds described in medieval Christian texts or New Yorker cartoons. Heaven is not a place of halos and harps, nor is hell populated by those red creatures with pitchforks depicted on the label of non-kosher canned meat.
After death, the soul returns to its Divine Source, together with all the G-dliness it has “extracted” from the physical world by using it for meaningful purposes. The soul now relives its experiences on another plane, and experiences the good it accomplished during its physical lifetime as incredible happiness and pleasure, and the negative as incredibly painful.
This pleasure and pain are not reward and punishment in the conventional sense–in the sense that we might punish a criminal by sending him to jail or reward a dedicated employee with a raise. It is rather that we experience our own life in its reality–a reality from which we were sheltered during our physical lifetimes. We experience the true import and effect of our actions. Turning up the volume on that TV set with that symphony orchestra can be intensely pleasurable or intensely painful,8–depending on how we played the music of our lives.
**When the soul departs from the body, it stands before the Heavenly Court to give a “judgment and accounting” of its earthly life.**9 But the Heavenly Court only does the “accounting” part; the “judgment” part–that only the soul itself can do.10 Only the soul can pass judgment on itself–only it can know and sense the true extent of what it accomplished, or neglected to accomplish, in the course of its physical life. Freed from the limitations and concealments of the physical state, it can now see G-dliness; it can now look back at its own life and experience what it truly was. The soul’s experience of the G-dliness it brought into the world with its mitzvot and positive actions is the exquisite pleasure of Gan Eden (the “Garden of Eden”–i.e., Paradise); its experience of the destructiveness it wrought through its lapses and transgressions is the excruciating pain of Gehinom ("Gehenna" or “Purgatory”).
The truth hurts. The truth also cleanses and heals. **The spiritual pain of gehinom–the soul’s pain in facing the truth of its life–cleanses and heals the soul of the spiritual stains and blemishes that its failings and misdeeds have attached to it. **Freed of this husk of negativity, the soul is now able to fully enjoy the immeasurable good that its life engendered and “bask in the Divine radiance” emitted by the G-dliness it brought into the world.
For a G-dly soul spawns far more good in its lifetime than evil. The core of the soul is unadulterated goodness; the good we accomplish is infinite, the evil but shallow and superficial. So even the most wicked of souls, say our sages, experiences, at most, twelve months of gehinom, followed by an eternity of heaven. Furthermore, a soul’s experience of gehinom can be mitigated by the action of his or her children and loved ones, here on earth. Reciting Kaddish and engaging in other good deeds “in merit of” and “for the elevation of” the departed soul means that the soul, in effect, is continuing to act positively upon the physical world, thereby adding to the goodness of its physical lifetime.11
The soul, on its part, remains involved in the lives of those it leaves behind when it departs physical life. The soul of a parent continues to watch over the lives of his/her children and grandchildren, to derive pride (or pain) from their deeds and accomplishments, and to intercede on their behalf before the Heavenly Throne; the same applies to those to whom a soul was connected with bonds of love, friendship and community. In fact, because the soul is no longer constricted by the limitations of the physical state, its relationship with its loved ones is, in many ways, even deeper and more meaningful than before.
However, while the departed soul is aware and cognizant of all that transpires in the lives of its loved ones, the souls remaining in the physical word are limited to what they can perceive via the five senses as facilitated by their physical bodies. We can impact the soul of a departed loved one through our positive actions, but we cannot communicate with it through conventional means (speech, sight, physical contact, etc.) that, prior to its passing, defined the way that we related to each other. (Indeed, the Torah expressly forbids the idolatrous practices of necromancy, mediumism and similar attempts to “make contact” with the world of the dead.) Hence the occurrence of death, while signifying an elevation for the soul of the departed, is experienced as a tragic loss for those it leaves behind."
Anna
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Anna_Scott
Guest
I know we hold theological differences in the interpretation of Hell–as either being eternal torment or death/destruction/annihilation.
Would you clarify: Are you saying that you believe literally in an eternal fiery torment?
The Church Fathers, and even Pope John Paul II, are not in agreement on the definition of eternal torment.
**Justin Martyr (151AD) **
We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire (“First Apology” 21).
[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons (“First Apology” 52).
**From “The Epistle of Barnabas” (70-130AD) **
The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment. (“Epistle of Barnabas”)
**From “Second Clement” (150AD) **
If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (“Second Clement” 5:5)
**From “The Martyrdom of Polycarp” (155AD) **
Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (“Martyrdom of Polycarp” 2:3)
**From Athenagoras of Athens (175AD) **
We are persuaded that when we are removed from the present life we will live another life, better than the present one…or, if they fall with the rest, they will endure a worse life, one in fire. For God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, who are mere by-products. For animals perish and are annihilated. On these grounds, it is not likely that we would wish to do evil. (“Apology”)
**From Theophilus of Antioch (181AD) **
Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (“To Autolycus” 1:14)
From Irenaeus (189AD)
[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire (“Against Heresies” 1:10:1)
The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . *t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever (“Against Heresies” 4:28:2)
**From Tertullian (197AD) **
But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility (“Apology” 44:12–13).
By the time we reach Pope John Paul II, “hell” has an entirely different definition. So, the interpretations of the fate of the lost in the afterlife, is not fixed, even within the Catholic Church.
Please correct me, if I have misquoted, or misunderstood. I am not Catholic, so I do not want to misrepresent the beliefs of the Catholic Church.
Quote from Pope John Paul II:
HEAVEN, HELL AND PURGATORY
Pope John Paul II
"Hell is the State of Those who Reject God
At the General Audience of Wednesday, 28 July 1999, the Holy Father reflected on hell as the definitive rejection of God. In his catechesis, the Pope said that care should be taken to interpret correctly the images of hell in Sacred Scripture, and explained that “hell is the ultimate consequence of sin itself… Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy”.
- God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely, can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or hell. It is not a punishment imposed externally by God but a development of premises already set by people in this life. The very dimension of unhappiness which this obscure condition brings can in a certain way be sensed in the light of some of the terrible experiences we have suffered which, as is commonly said, make life “hell”.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM#Hell
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Which definition of eternal torment do you accept?
Respectfully,
Anna*
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Eucharisted
Guest
Do not generalize the Jews.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
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Eucharisted
Guest
Oral Tradition isn’t man-made but God-given. I warmly recommend you to study Jewish Tradition - not from any one sect’s view but from history, from before the destruction of the Second Temple. Than you will understand what I meant.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
God gave Moses the Oral Tradition, along with the written text, as direct revelation at Mount Sinai.
The Talmud and Midrash were committed to writing at a time during the era of the Roman empire, when teaching the Jewish faith and spreading knowledge of the Israel’s God was forbidden----the Sages were being persecuted and killed. Oral Tradition and Tanach are considered to be equally Divine.
However, the OP is asking, “What do the Jews believe about Hell?” I simply offered a few Jewish beliefs. I did not claim that my knowledge or comments are all inclusive, or that I am an expert in Judaism (far from it.)
What would you like to add that would help answer the OP’s question about the Jewish beliefs regarding Hell?
Anna
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