Anyone a Teenager in the 60's During the Changes in the Catholic Church? What did you think of it?

[pray4peace]

I was in my teens around 16 or so and what a change it was! The changes were fast and drastic. Communion rails were done away with, priests faced the congregation during Mass. The Mass was spoken in English and no more Latin. I think at the time it was just pretty strange to have these changes and it took some time to get used to it all.

We no longer prayed the rosary during mass and our Missal was no longer needed. We had to learn to look at our neighbor and shake their hands and guitar mass was the way to go.

People changed from being quiet and self absorbed to being more open and friendly. We learned to sing, which no one ever did before,and to pray out loud together in our own language.

I think at the time, from a teenagers perspective it was pretty cool. I understood the Mass so much more and actually started to like singing. I remember asking my mom and dad to go to the new guitar mass, as it was all the rage.

Somewhere along the way we gave up the chapel veil(never missed it) , pretty statues in the church, and built modern cold looking churches.

The priests had long hair, spoke out on the Vietnam war, nuclear disarmament and fought for integration.

Catholic churches were more attuned to secular life and accessible to the people. Ministries sprung up, fellowship grew, and more lay people were involved in the church. Social justice became part of the Catholic Church’s mission. We became a church that reached out to people young and old much more than before.

I think many of the changes were good for the church and I am sure we will have more as time goes and as the need arises.

I am older now with grown kids and have become more conservative in the last year or two. I don’t know if this is something that is just happening to me or if others my age are feeling this way. I think somewhere along the way we forgot how to pray and be with our Lord during the Mass. We have become a noisy people with not much respect for the Lord in His house. I would like to see the Mass be the same in every Catholic church and priests and faithful not doing their own thing, but abide by the church rules and laws.

The Catholic Church has been through many changes down through history and is likely go through more. I pray that she will continue to be strong. I believe changes can and will be made to reflect the needs of her people. I do think we will be heard and God will lead his people.

Blessings

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Change is almost always difficult to the human being - especially if your thinking and behaviour patterns have been conditioned due to long established habits of thought and behaviour.
I was a teenager during the changes flowing from Vatican2 and at first it was all very strange and ‘shouting’ of “protestanization of Catholicism” which seemed to prevail were scarey. Then I started to insight why the changes were coming in and sighted these as valid and important and with that, although still feeling strange, I was eager to ‘get into step’ with it all, which took time and the unlearning of old thinking and behaviour patterns and establishing of the new.
This did underscore for me the importance of being educated in the Faith … and this result of V2 (importance of Faith education) has remained with me since. Certainly speaking personally, more good for sure came of V2 and the changes than I ever anticipated in the early days of change.
We have always been subject to change in The Church and always will at some points…without change there is no growth as difficult as change can be. As The Church gleans new understandings and insights, change will probably flow. V2 helped me to insight that change is not necessarily a negative matter, though change, as I have said, can be difficult for the human being.

Blessings this Easter…Barb

 

[Phemie]

I was 12 when we switched to the vernacular. I don’t recall being thrilled with the physical changes in our church and that may have had to do with my parents’ sadness at seeing the marble altars smashed to bits and taken to the dump. When I look at 1950s pictures of our church and that in the next town, I too could cry at the destruction of works of art for the sake of documents that nobody local had read and that those in power had misrepresented.

But the changes in music and language were exciting. I can still remember that first Sunday with Mass in French. We had been coached for weeks by the grade 7 Sister and we were ready to give those answers & acclamations! The little yellow cardstock folders that contained the responses were in all pews. I’ll never forget my mother’s embarrassment when my voice was the loudest in the building. I, OTOH, couldn’t understand why people were speaking so low, so I was trying to be an example. Mom kept tugging at my sleeve and whispering “Not so loud!” But… if I wasn’t loud Fr. wouldn’t hear anyone – at least in my perception.

We never had folk masses in my parish and the community still doesn’t sing. We’ve always had a choir and never had hymnals so the assembly has never assumed the role that is theirs. The only time you hear singing is if a visitor happens to know the hymns or the setting of the responses.

But folk masses were popular in the town when I was in high school and any occasion was reason for one: school winter carnival, Advent, Lent…" Teens were still going to Mass then and greatly involved in preparing them. But the songs, oh my: Glen Campbell’s “Less of Me” (I haven’t sung/heard that in years but the first verse is as fresh in my mind as if I’d read it this morning); Let Us Break Bread Together on Our Knees; Sr. Miriam Therese Winter’s “Joy Is Like the Rain”; Joe Wise’s “Lord, Teach Us to Pray”. Good for prayer meetings but oh my, not for Mass.

We knew nothing of documents, rubrics, etc. and even if we’d known we never would have presumed to suggest to Fr. that he wasn’t doing things right.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I was in my late teens-early twenties when the changes occurred and I was not particulary distressed about it. I liked the Mass being said in English and I liked the new songs. No major renovation was done in my parish, the statues remained, the stained glass windows remained, the altar remained, although a new altar was installed. No actual “wreckovation”.

I did not attend Mass much until my late 20"s, although I did off and on. I had married and moved, but was still in the same Diocese. The Communion rail remained intact in the parishes I attended and were only recently taken down in one parish. I now belong to a parish that built a new church in 1991 and it is of modern architecture, but there are plenty of statues and stained glass windows, and a wonderful organ. The music is a mix of contemporary and traditional hymns, but there are no guitars, except at the Life Teen Masses, and they follow the rubrics of the Mass. So I have not experienced any distress in the changes…

Except for the time I went out West for a Conference…culture shock to be sure. There I experienced poorly done “liturgical dancing” (never saw it before), radical feminism, the terminology “Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” in reference to the Trinity, and serious “liturgical abuse”. What some people characterize as “liturgical abuse” is NOTHING compared to what I saw. I gratefully returned to my ordinary parish and thanked God that this stuff did not invade my church.

So the changes had little effect on me, personally. I think those who prefer the Tridentine Mass should be accomodated, perhaps not in every parish, because that would not be feasible, but within reasonable driving distance. We do have an FSSP parish in our Diocese, as well. I think their spiritual needs should be filled. They have right to that.

 

[Cathryn]

I graduated Catholic high school in 1969. There was no high school religion for me. We were put into “encounter groups” and forced to discover ourselves. We would be told to write down on pieces of paper what we think of each of our classmates and then everyone reads about themselves from the opinions of others. For my senior year religion class we were supposed to keep a journal of discovering ourselves and God and turn it in at the end of the semester. When I told the Sister that I didn’t want to do it she told me I wouldn’t graduate unless I did. So I back dated a bunch of entries, made some things up and ended up with a D instead of an F in religion and did graduate.

The occassional Masses we had were standing around the altar strumming guitars, etc. I have vague memories singing “This little Light of Mine”.

At the time I was confused about what happened to the faith I was taught in grade school through eighth grade, which was beautiful and made sense to me.

I understand now that the faith is still there, but am still in the process of recovering from the way Vatican II was interpreted and handled by the schools and parishes.

 

[byers]

It’s been a loooooong 40 years…but I have seen much reason for hope in the future.

 

[palmas85]

In 1966, at the ripe old age of 18, I went overseas as did many others of my age. When I left a few changes had been made, mainly the Mass being said in the vernacular and facing the people. There were a few other minor things but people still had reverence in the Mass and acted as if they were in the presence of God andf acted accordingly with respect and dignity.

Overseas I had my first real experience with non Catholics and found their entire attitude towards the faith to be different. Since many if not most of t he religious services the military had, at least where I was were ecumenical in nature, I missed a lot of what was going on in the Church. My experiences during that time left me questioning many things in a way that I never had before.

When I returned to the US several years later, I decide to attend Mass in uniform, since it was all I really had. I was refused communion by a Priest wearing love beads, remember those? and JC sandals, who told me not only was I unworthy to receive, but I should be ashamed of myself for serving the slave master who had brought my ancestors here in bondage. I guess he thought I was black I did get pretty dark in those few years I was gone:thumbsup:

Then I started seeing the other things, the loss of respect, the loss of dignity, the exaltation of man in all his glorious radiance. I saw Priests changed from being concerned with the eternal sacrifice to wondering if their sermons were socially relevent. Everything seemed geared towards society and the uplifting of it to create the kingdom of God on earth. The sacrifice of the Mass seemed out of place, quaint in a way and totally un-related to what the Church was now focused on, the dignity of man, love and ethics. The protestant Social Gospel in a nutshell

What became important was that the Mass be a comfortable place for ALL I saw ecumenism take center stage and become the end all of Catholic worship in many places. No more could Catholics feel secure in their faith. No the Priests trumpeted, all religions are the same. We are just one of many.

Whatever anyone wanted to do at Mass was OK, they were just expressing themselves and in the vernacular of today, keeping it real. Change some words OK, dump entire sections of the Mass, even better, use corn tortillas for the host, good idea:thumbsup: after all they were the food of the people.

I saw sisters go from being the staunchest defenders of the Church to being its’ most vociferous detractors. I saw the Jesuits in open rebellion against the Holy Father in their belief that the only true path for the Catholic Church was liberation theology. I saw the Mass altered and changed so that it was barely recognizable

I saw Catholic identity sneered at, debunked and ridiculed. I saw the Holy Mother stripped from the Churches and called nothing more than a prayer warrior, no better than anyone else. and certainly not deserving of prayers and devotion. Saying the Rosary was laughed at and called the hiding place of the ignorant because as all good protestants know, vain repetition of prayers is not really praying. And I saw the scandals rising, pedophilia, sex crimes of the most vile nature, criminal activity all the way up to the Vatican itself.

Yeah there were changes. I lived through them. I saw them, I experienced them, and I saw what they did to the Church.

But I stayed, and I tried to fight back. At last after forty years of nonsense the tide seems to be turning and the Chiurch returning to what it truly was and is.

The one true Church, the Church established by Christ Jesus through his sacrifice at Calvary. Not merely one path in 10,000. The one true path.

 

[sawman]

Dear Palmas85,
Although I was younger,10 in '62, I certainly saw the changes. I did not understand many of them at the time. I guess the most charitable way I can express myself about the way the changes affected my spiritual life,is that “this too shall pass”.All those disident Priests,Nuns and theologians who’s actions and teaching and preaching tried to destroy my faith, the very best thing about them is that at some time they will all be dead! Hopefully their scandalous behavior will finally be expunged from any memory of Holy Mother the Church. The corrupt and scandalous sheperds have wrecked the spiritual lives of so many! I’m just so glad that I’ve found myself to be in a position of loving the Church and trying to be obedient to Her teaching despite the the desolation that has swept Her in America these last 45-55 years. May God have mercy on those responsible for the desolation! I know now though, that the Church will not be conformed to their image. So as time goes on the damage done will begin to slowly rinse away and all will one day be cleansed. Not perfect, but better.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I have the complete set of merit badges since I was an altar boy from 1960 through 1968 and graduated from a Catholic high school in 1969. I didn’t like what happened and I voted with my feet for years, usually going to the first Mass on Sunday to avoid having to sing “sing-a-long music” (sacro-pop as our choir director once called it) and seeing Father running up and down the aisles during the Sign of Peace. I have driven 25 miles (one way) for the last 25 years to the cathedral and have sung in the choir for most of those years - reverence and continuity with our past means that much to me.

My bishop merely “acknowledged” the MP and the Chancellor of the diocese followed it up with the typical “nobody wants the TLM” editorial. My bishop was the first chaplain for the merged high school which started in 1970 and resulted in the end of a 100 year tradition.

My choir routinely sings Gregorian Chant and Latin motets. Our parish chants the Kyrie, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei during Lent. Am I asking too much to have a Solemn High Mass with choir once a month? Or will you tell me it is appropriate to sing “Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord” from the musical “Godspell” on the First Sunday of Advent as they do in my local geographic parish?

I have prayed for 40 years and there is light on the horizon.

 

[A2SciTeach]

I hated it, and I left the Church for 30 years. I was only in my early teens and I couldn’t understand how everything that had been done could suddenly be undone. The worst of the worse and the one thing that represented the undoing of tradition was seeing the priests and nuns in civilian clothing. I know that’s just a tiny thing, but to me it was indicative that everything was different. It caused me to question the faith, there was no one to turn to except some guy dressed in a tie-dyed shirt, so I left.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I was in my mid 20’s when this started. What we all received from many priests and nuns at that time was what they THOUGHT the spirit of Vatican II was. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Only after people and those in the Church hierarchy began actually studying the documents of Vatican II did we come back to a course that was intended by the Council Fathers. I have been blessed to have known several of them and to have discussed some of the changes with them. They were just as appalled with what was going on as were most lay people. Slowly, we are morphing into the Church they were guiding us to and I see great things ahead of us as a result. Pray for the Church and study the documents of Vatican II. You will see our errors in where some went and you will see the truth that we are traveling to. Pray for the Church daily. I wonder if the Church went through these throes after other Councils that have made great strides in our beloved Catholic Church.
Prayers and Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[sawman]

I appologize for my previous post if anyone was made to feel uncomfortable,I’m sorry. I support what I know about V.II. I’ll be the first to admit I’m not an expert by any means. The abuses I refered to in my last post, were issues that concerned me personaly, and people I know as well. There were attempts to hijack the faith,by people who knew what they were doing. That was evil. More than anything though, there was a haze of confusion about what was solid and eternal,and what was changable. So many bad examples of behavior, and bad advise from those who should have known better. Sheperds abandoning the flock with nonchalance and no remorse.
So many of us grew up with a perverted form of faith with no one to turn to for guidance.Many have been lost to the faith during this time. We speak of “a time of turmoil” after the Council,but it is a phrase that is rarely translated into the ordinary person’s life experience. 40 years of turmoil is my whole adult lifetime. I want to blame someone,but who? Could I have been a better Catholic? Should the Church have “been there” for me and others? I don’t know the answers. I can only go on from this point in my life, and make the best of things.I do pray for the Church, us, that God have mercy on us all.

 

[Joannm]

I for one welcomed the changes, I was at an age when going to Mass was boring and I really didn’t want to go. Once the venacular came in and I was able to hear and say the words of the Mass my attitude changed. I became involved in the folk group and was the youngest person on our parish’s liturgy committee. I totally fell in love with the liturgy and now it is my life’s work. I don’t think that would have happened if it remained the way it was.

 

[Nan_S]

I for one welcomed the changes, I was at an age when going to Mass was boring and I really didn’t want to go. Once the venacular came in and I was able to hear and say the words of the Mass my attitude changed. I became involved in the folk group and was the youngest person on our parish’s liturgy committee. I totally fell in love with the liturgy and now it is my life’s work. I don’t think that would have happened if it remained the way it was.

I was about 9 when the Mass was changed, suffered through years of pathetic “spirit of Vatican II” pseudo-Protestant catechesis, and still am angry when I remember the priest allowing as church “hymns” Simon and Garfunkle’s “Sounds of Silence” (from The Graduate) and Andrew Lloyd Webber’s “Jesus Christ Superstar” (Jesus Christ, who are you, what have you sacrificed?).

My generation of Catholic youth and the two after were very poorly taught, and we who are catechetical teachers are dealing with the repercussions now. Today’s kids are ignorant of their faith because many of their parents were - and still are - clueless. Many of today’s Catholic converts are better-trained and more devout than the cradle Catholics. The newcomers and today’s grandparents who were already adults in 1969 are bringing the rest around, though, and it’s good to see.

One thing I have come to appreciate is the Novus Ordo mass, when it is done in a reverent and worshipful manner with respectful music. The Tridentine Mass has always been wonderful. However, people seem to forget that the strict formulation of the Tridentine Mass was a result of the Council of Trent, 1500 years after Jesus walked the earth.

Holding the position that the Tridendine is the only “proper” formulation for the Mass is the Catholic liturgical equivalent of some of our Protestant bretheren saying that the King James Authorized Version is the only “proper” translation of the Bible.

The Tridentine had its own brand of irreverance as well, when people realized that a complete Low Mass could be said machine-gun fashion in less than 25 minutes. Get mid-day mass, a nice lunch, and be back to work in less than an hour. How meaningful is that?

I love hearing the Mass in Latin. I don’t get lost in a language barrier with the Latin prayers, since they are the same every week. It takes only a little effort to learn the words and their meanings. It also has a nice side-effect of preparing you to take college entrance exams as you become comfortable with the ancient words that are the roots of a well-developed vocabulary.

Since Latin and Greek are no longer the univeral langauges of commerce, understood and fluently spoken by all educated men, it stands to reason that some accomodation needed to be made for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to be meaningful to modern man. . Quoting from the OT and proclaiming the quotes in the vernacular definitely adds to the Mass.

The part I like best about the Novus Ordo Latin mass is its treatment of scripture. First, I find a great deal of value in a 3-year lectionary that uses all four gospels and extensively draws on the older Testament to show that Christ truly is the fulfiller of the promise. The Tridentine mass primarily used only one gospel, and only dusted off the Old Testament at Christmas and Easter.

Second, praying and understanding familiar prayers in Latin is one thing. Reading the Paul’s Letters in Latin is something else, and it would practically require someone to have 4 years of formal Latin study to make sense of them. So I appreciate that the Latin Novus Ordo mass proclaims scripture in the vernacular.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I think you hit it on the head, Nan, and I am “glad” ( ) that I am not the only one to have “experienced” Simon and Garfunkle, Jesus Christ Superstar and Godspell at Mass.

I was fortunate in that I was catechized properly. Both of my sons attended Catholic grade and high school and what they were taught never approached the level of what I was taught.

I am fortunate in that I have been a member of a parish where the NO is celebrated reverently and I hear Gregorian Chant and Latin motets and English motets and the congregation sings standard hymns for the most part. I don’t mind singing the occasional Eagles Wings or Gather Us In.

I too love the “new” lectionary and psalms in the vernacular. Over on the Liturgy & Sacrament forum, someone has posted the missal for the HF’s visit this coming week. Kyrie, Gloria, Creed (!), Sanctus, Pater Noster (!) and Agnus Dei - all in Latin! This was not done when JPII came. Is the HF trying to tell us something? For me, every Catholic should be able to chant all of those Mass parts without blinking an eye.

I love hearing the Mass in Latin. I don’t get lost in a language barrier with the Latin prayers, since they are they are the same every week. It takes only a little effort to learn the words and their meanings. It also has a nice side-effect of preparing you to take college entrance exams as you become comfortable with the ancient words that are the roots of a well-developed vocabulary.

:clapping: :clapping: Bravo! I wanted to take Latin in high school but my folks said no, take something useful like Spanish. Most people do not understand that Latin is the underlying language of French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc. Most people do not understand the sheer number of Latin words which were incorporated into English during the Renaissance. From eigth grade through twelfth at my Catholic boy’s high school in the late Sixties we were required to develop our vocabulary. OH NO! Latin is TOO hard!

“Libera nos a malo” - Straight from the Lord’s Prayer. Libera - OH NO! Latin is TOO hard! Liberty = freedom = free. Malo? Malpractice, maladjusted…So hard.