Anyone agree that we 50-65 year olds need insurance too?

[puzzleannie]

it only remains to add that even when I qualify for medicare, or if I was able to get my disability reinstated in TX and get medicaid, I would probably still be outside the loop since more and more doctors–including my new primary care and 2 specialists–no longer accept patients with either.

 

[Rachel_J]

I am not someone that never uses drs. I have asthma, arthritis, melanoma and am just getting old LOL. But, I don’t want anyone to go bankrupt for my medical care that includes the me, my children, grandchildren and the government. And I sure don’t want my grandchildren to have to pay 50% or more of their income to pay for it and other social “needs”.

You are been dishonest - I hope unintentionally.

It is quite possible to have universal healthcare without a 50 - 75% tax rate.

My country does it. We have a flat tax on goods and services of 10%. The highest income tax rate is 45% - and that is only if you earn more than $180 000 and only for every dollar above that amount.

Assuming no deductibles for out of pocket work expenses someone on $57 000 a year (average), 24% is paid in income tax. Assuming every dollar of their net salary is spent on goods and services subject to the GST (rarely the case) they will pay approximately 32% tax on their salary.

That some countries which have universal healthcare may have tax in the 75% area does not automatically mean that such a high tax is required to fund universal healthcare.

The problems bought up in this thread are some of the reasons I will never support any politiican or party which suggests that health care by insurance is a good idea.

 

[cynic]

You are been dishonest - I hope unintentionally.

It is quite possible to have universal healthcare without a 50 - 75% tax rate.

My country does it. We have a flat tax on goods and services of 10%. The highest income tax rate is 45% - and that is only if you earn more than $180 000 and only for every dollar above that amount.
.

Don’t let information get in way of anecdotal statements from the extreme right. The same people who don’t like paying a cent towards other people’s kids education.

Assuming no deductibles for out of pocket work expenses someone on $57 000 a year (average), 24% is paid in income tax. Assuming every dollar of their net salary is spent on goods and services subject to the GST (rarely the case) they will pay approximately 32% tax on their salary.

.

Since people do *not *spend anywhere near all of what they earn on goods and services subject to GST, they will pay significantly less than that.

…someone who lives in Australia:thumbsup:

 

[KathleenElsie]

You are been dishonest - I hope unintentionally. Over all taxes paid by the population as a whole run in the rates I stated through out the world today. And you don’t mention the other issues in my post suech as rationing etc of services.

It is quite possible to have universal healthcare without a 50 - 75% tax rate.

My country does it. We have a flat tax on goods and services of 10%. The highest income tax rate is 45% - What about other taxes in your country. and that is only if you earn more than $180 000 and only for every dollar above that amount.

Assuming no deductibles for out of pocket work expenses someone on $57 000 a year (average), 24% is paid in income tax. Assuming every dollar of their net salary is spent on goods and services subject to the GST (rarely the case) they will pay approximately 32% tax on their salary.

That some countries which have universal healthcare may have tax in the 75% area does not automatically mean that such a high tax is required to fund universal healthcare. I never said every country.

The problems bought up in this thread are some of the reasons I will never support any politiican or party which suggests that health care by insurance is a good idea.

Lets see in the USA now:

28% Social Security if you consider both the employee and employer taxes

An average of 10% or above for those working

Medicare tax

Real estate Tax

State and Local Tax

School Tax

Sales Tax

and the list already goes on and on.

Cure the current problems and then tackle the rest.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Don’t let information get in way of anecdotal statements from the extreme right. The same people who don’t like paying a cent towards other people’s kids education.

Since people do *not *spend anywhere near all of what they earn on goods and services subject to GST, they will pay significantly less than that.

…someone who lives in Australia:thumbsup:

Even though we don’t use the governmental educational systems it is socially responsible to pay for the actual education of children. In my personal case we have a direct tax bill of 8.5% of our family income that goes to this governmental expense Cost per student in our small area is just under $10,000 per year.

Now we then pay for the education of our own children (we homeschool) and our cost for this is much lower. It costs us around $700 per year for our three children. $700 is alot less then the $30,000 the state pays for the same number of children. So we pay our share and save the government $30,000. Sounds like we are doing more then our share.

 

[DianaJean543]

There is a booming medical tourism business wherein Americans and Europeans travel to Asian countries for surgery. The hospitals and the physicians are excellent, and the prices are so reasonable that people pay by check or credit card.

As for universal coverage, I’ll paraphrase Dr. Doug Farrago: You can’t have universal and comprehensive. Choose one. Universal means rationing. Comprehensive means higher costs.

Over the course of a lifetime, I would guess that most people pay far more for health insurance than they ever receive in benefits.

Travel to Asian countries is great for those who can afford to pay for the airline tickets & time off work, etc. This option doesn’t even fall within the parameters of what many of us can even consider! It seems as though many people (usually the ones who have good insurance coverage) are the ones who argue about what universal coverage really means when none of us really knows EXACTLY what is being proposed because no one is even listening. We’re just all arguing our own sides of the issue & there are as many sides to this issue are there are people arguing them!

I too believe that over a lifetime, we pay much more in any insurance than we ever receive back in benefits - much to the ravenous delight of insurance companies!

Also, since this discussion has gotten rather off-message onto taxes, etc., maybe if this unjust war in Iraq were to end, our tax money might be going to something to help this country get out of the hole we’ve dug for ourselves - which COULD include a better healthcare system! :doh2:

 

[KathleenElsie]

Travel to Asian countries is great for those who can afford to pay for the airline tickets & time off work, etc. This option doesn’t even fall within the parameters of what many of us can even consider! It seems as though many people (usually the ones who have good insurance coverage) are the ones who argue about what universal coverage really means when none of us really knows EXACTLY what is being proposed because no one is even listening. We’re just all arguing our own sides of the issue & there are as many sides to this issue are there are people arguing them!

I too believe that over a lifetime, we pay much more in any insurance than we ever receive back in benefits - much to the ravenous delight of insurance companies!

Also, since this discussion has gotten rather off-message onto taxes, etc., maybe if this unjust war in Iraq were to end, our tax money might be going to something to help this country get out of the hole we’ve dug for ourselves - which COULD include a better healthcare system! :doh2:

Not everyone that does not have good insurance feels that the things offered are better then what they now have. Besides I cannot remember an election cycle that this issue has not been “important”. So I won’t hold my breath for any reform.

I don’t want a government takeover. I just want the abuses that exist now to be taken care of.

 

[DianaJean543]

I don’t want a government takeover. I just want the abuses that exist now to be taken care of.

I think this is what most of us want, but like you, I’m not holding my breath for the reform of our healthcare system anytime soon. I feel that the system is already government run - we already have “socialized” medicine (and many people I know think the same thing). I remember a time when we didn’t have to get approval from the insurance company for an x-ray or anything else. We didn’t have to wait 4 months to see a doctor. People didn’t have to die in ERs waiting for help. And the insurance companies & SOME doctors are surely in the back pockets of many politicians (or vice versa; at this point, I’m not sure who *has *who!!!). Maybe we just need to keep talking, louder & louder & keep praying!