Anyone else believe in universal coverage for kids?

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Fitswimmer said:
I still want to know why the only health care options Americans can have are 100% free market or 100% government.

Can we not come up with some kind of plan that makes sure everyone is covered, that covered means covered and that people come before profit? Maybe it’s a hybrid of government and market, maybe it’s not-but what we have now is not working for the poor, for the middle class, for retired people or for business.
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What do you think of this doctor’s plan?: sauerbergforussenate.com/stand-health.aspx

Moderator, if I violated a rule, please feel free to remove this post.
 
Ok, so what happens if people don’t use the tax rebate to purchase insurance and then get sick or hurt? Who pays then?
 
manualman said:
I think it is a mistake to couch health care in terms of “rights.” Modern technological health care is NOT a right.

Instead, I think it is better to take the position that our society is wealthy enough to extend the “PRIVILEDGE” of basic health care to all children, regardless of ability to pay.

We need to watch out for the entitlement attitude. People simply do not value what they don’t have to pay for. It’s human nature (probably from the fallen part). Making it both ‘free’ and calling it a ‘right’ is IMO likely to worsen the problem.

Instead, I think we probably ought to come up with a way to cover preventative and routine care for the poor (and not just kids) that requires them to participate in the cost SOMEHOW in order to both retain their dignity and their sense of the value of the health care.

I’m NOT so sure that society owes everyone “free” advanced health care (transplants, chemo, patented drugs, etc)

I don’t have much hope that our political climate is compatible with such subtleties.
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I agree with you. I for one do not want or trust the government running healthcare. They do such a great job with everything else, don’t cha’ know:rolleyes: ?
 
Fitswimmer said:
Ok, so what happens if people don’t use the tax rebate to purchase insurance and then get sick or hurt? Who pays then?
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The question is where do we draw the line and actually state “take responsibility for yourself and those dependent on you or don’t come asking for any more than we’ve already given you”? Remember, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I think the same rule should apply in this situation. If you give every reasonable ability for one to take their healthcare into their own hands and they CHOOSE, OUT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL, to pass up those opportunities, well, then they will only have themselves to blame.
 
gmarie21 said:
The question is where do we draw the line and actually state “take responsibility for yourself and those dependent on you or don’t come asking for any more than we’ve already given you”? Remember, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I think the same rule should apply in this situation. If you give every reasonable ability for one to take their healthcare into their own hands and they CHOOSE, OUT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL, to pass up those opportunities, well, then they will only have themselves to blame.
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So they die. Not something I could live with. I’m ok with people suffering in other ways for their own choices-my own cousin lives in a rooming house and shares a bathroom with crackheads because of her choices and I lose zero sleep over it. However, I’m not going to condemn even her to death or disease because she would take that rebate and not get insurance.
 
Fitswimmer said:
So they die. Not something I could live with. I’m ok with people suffering in other ways for their own choices-my own cousin lives in a rooming house and shares a bathroom with crackheads because of her choices and I lose zero sleep over it. However, I’m not going to condemn even her to death or disease because she would take that rebate and not get insurance.
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I still believe that there will be doctors and charitable organizations to help those who didn’t cease the opportunity to do the basics in taking care of themselves, but I would venture to say that a majority of uninsured and underinsured would take advantage of any plan that would help them become covered and to actually visit a doctor. When, do you suppose, we, as an American people, will begin to demand that our neighbors step up and take accountability for their own actions instead of blaming someone else for their own shortcomings?
 
In the meantime where does the US rank on Healthcare and yet still pay more?
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
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photius.com/rankings/healthranks.htm

I just love it that france tops. Oh yeah baby!:extrahappy:
 
Cuddy_Duck said:
In the meantime where does the US rank on Healthcare and yet still pay more?

photius.com/rankings/healthranks.htm

I just love it that france tops. Oh yeah baby!:extrahappy:
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And which of these countries does not, on a national level, have a diet of all or mostly processed foods? And what are their normal portion sizes both inside the home and restaurants? How much physical activity (in hours per week) do the citizens of these countries average. What are their public transportation systems like? How many hours, on average per week, do they spend watching television or movies? How many hours, per week, do they spend commuting to and from work? How many weeks, per year, is the average time spent on vacation/holiday? How many activities, on average, does each child participate in per week? How about adults? Do you see where I’m getting at, I would think that many of those countries listed have dramatically different lifestyles than we do. All the advanced medicine in the world means a hill of beans when one eats **** and is sedentary.
 
Lucania said:
I read somewhere that France has no Level One Trauma Centers. I am looking for the link. Do you have any knowledge of that?
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Maybe the preventative care is so good that they don’t need them…😉
 
Skip_Wiley said:
Well, Rutgers University seemed to think I know enough about it to have awarded me a degree in economics…
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Congratulations Skip! You managed to stuggle your way through an undergraduate degree from the worlds 177th best university. see link: timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=144. There are many of us on this board who are quite well educated, but don’t feel the need to “drop hints” about credentials, or what we studied (however proud we may be). They are a classic debate killer, and sign of a poorly formed argument.

There are all sorts of issues associated with both governement intervention, and privatization. In some cases it has been a sucess, in others an absolute failure.

The system in the US is obvioulsy flawed. They should look to a model from abroad which works (by that I mean one which provides medical care to everybody regardless of income) and copy that.
 
A similar argument can be made that if one is entitled to heath care , then one must be entitled to food ,clothing, housing,education, transportation and so on. It might be worth reading Pope Leo XIII’s encylical on Socialism.

God Love you all.

Mike Cummins
 
sanctamaria17 said:
If they are working, they absolutely pay taxes. Working poor do exist.

No child should fall through the cracks, period. Not on health care or education. Two things that need to be fixed in this country.
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My husband and I hav three little children. We are not considered “poor” but we do qualify for free health care for our children, (including pregnancy medical) provided by DSHS in our state. We also qualify for WIC.

We also pay WAY less in taxes than what we recieve back every year at tax time, so I am not sure how you justify your comment. In my state we have sales tax, but as far as I am concerned that is more fair to the poor and the “rich” (yes, we seem to pretend in this thread that there is only one or the otherr)
 
rmbrulotte said:
In my state we have sales tax, but as far as I am concerned that is more fair to the poor and the “rich” (yes, we seem to pretend in this thread that there is only one or the otherr)
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Er. Sales tax is a tax on what you buy. Those on lower salaries spend a higher proportion of their salary than those on higher salaries. Therefore, they are taxed proportionately more: i.e. sales tax is a regressive taxation.

I hasten to add that this is not a point of view. This is accepted basic principle of economic theory.
A regressive tax is a tax imposed in such a manner that the tax rate decreases as the amount subject to taxation increases.[1][2][3][4][5] In simple terms, it imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich.
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The classical regressive tax is sales tax.
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psnw.com/~bashford/taxation.html

Hey, but since I don’t live in the States, I guess its up to you guys. 🤷
 
Mikecummins said:
A similar argument can be made that if one is entitled to heath care , then one must be entitled to food ,clothing, housing,education, transportation and so on. It might be worth reading Pope Leo XIII’s encylical on Socialism.

God Love you all.

Mike Cummins
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…You just keep on talking that “evils of socialism” line, while the rest of the industrialised world look after those in need of medical care.

Heaven knows what dire consequences lie in wait if the US government started using tax money to feed the poor, or cure them of diseases. A frightful thought.
 
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