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MatthewBerkeley
Guest
Yes! I’ve haven’t been there yet though. I think I might try and spend a while in Avila, the OCD Student House, out in Donnybrook as well.
Where are you based?
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Where are you based?
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Cowfold
Guest
Now Young Thinker, I say this with the greatest respect as you are clearly an intelligent young man. From your posts you seem to be all over the place and lack focus.
There comes a time when you have to stop thinking and start doing. In this respect try a retreat to one of say ‘mendicant order’ and see how it feels.
O
Ocarm
Guest
Kent, England. My novitiate was a joint UK-Irish intake, with formation (name removed by moderator)ut from friars in both provinces.
Best wishes in your continued search and discernment.
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
Thank you. As for going to a retreat, I am sure I will soon enough. I am serious in my desire to become both a priest and a friar.
J
JReducation
Guest
As a friar myself, let me give you a piece of my own thoughts. This is not infallible doctrine, just my thinking and experience.
If you’re going to be a friar be a good brother to all. The title Friar should not be wasted on one who is not capable of being the smallest brother among many brothers and sisters. Whether a Friar is a priest, bishop, pope or a layman, what makes him a gift to the world is that he is its brother.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Young_Thinker
Guest
Thank you. Indeed, if I joined a mendicant order, I would not hold “Friar” as a title of distinction. That would essentially be the opposite behind why San Francesco d’Assisi(I like saying it in Italian) called his order the Friars Minor.As a friar myself, let me give you a piece of my own thoughts. This is not infallible doctrine, just my thinking and experience.
If you’re going to be a friar be a good brother to all. The title Friar should not be wasted on one who is not capable of being the smallest brother among many brothers and sisters. Whether a Friar is a priest, bishop, pope or a layman, what makes him a gift to the world is that he is its brother.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
I am curious; does anyone know much about the Servites(Servants of Mary). Even though they are an old order, they seem to not be so well-known. While obviously being Marian, what is their theology in relationship to the other “Big Five” of mendicants? Also, I was briefly watching “Journey Home” on E.T.W.N. yesterday, and a priest belonging to M.I.C. was the interviewee. I never heard about that order(the Congregation of Mary Immaculate?) before, but I read a little about it, and it sounds interesting.
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JReducation
Guest
Here is the site of the Servite Friars. They are cotemporaries with the Franciscans and Dominicans. If I’m not mistaken, they follow the Rule of St. Augustine as to the Dominican Friars.
servite.org/
There are legal differences between religous orders and religious congregations. The Servites are an order, the Priests and Brothers of Mary Immaculate are a congregation.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
Thank you, Brother.Here is the site of the Servite Friars. They are cotemporaries with the Franciscans and Dominicans. If I’m not mistaken, they follow the Rule of St. Augustine as to the Dominican Friars.
servite.org/
There are legal differences between religous orders and religious congregations. The Servites are an order, the Priests and Brothers of Mary Immaculate are a congregation.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
Are priests of a congregation considered to be religious or secular(I think that a congregation entails simple rather than solemn vows? I am under the impression that the Oratorians(to which the Ven. Cardinal Newman belonged) are secular, for instance. In addition, why does it seem the Trinitarian friars, whom are associated with the Crusades, are also overlooked?
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The_Stag
Guest
Wow, there are so many different things to think about while discerning. I never knew it would be so complicated. Based on the descriptions in the second post, I think the mendicants is where I would feel most ‘at home.’ I like a good balance between contemplative/community life and active life. The Dominicans embody this well, but I wasn’t quite sure if I felt at home. But it is really exciting to be on this journey.
One thing I need to remember to do is to pray for our priests and to pray for vocations. I used to shy away from praying for vocations because I was afraid that I might be the answer to my own prayers. I’m not afraid anymore.
One thing I need to remember to do is to pray for our priests and to pray for vocations. I used to shy away from praying for vocations because I was afraid that I might be the answer to my own prayers. I’m not afraid anymore.
J
JReducation
Guest
If you belong to a congregation, whether you’re a priest, bishop or brother, you are a religious. You are in simple vows, not solemn. Congregations do not make solemn vows, only orders do. The Oratory was founded for secular priests. They were the leading thinkers of the day.
I’m not sure who is ignoring the Trinitarians? They are always classified under the Augustinian tradition, because they follow the Rule of St. Augustine. But who ignores them? I’m confused. I like them very much. I have to admit that I don’t like the red and blue cross on their scapular, but I like their spirit.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
Thank you, Brother. I know that it is rather trivial, but I have to agree that I do not like the Trinitarian habit(and calling themselves Trinitarians seems like it would bring confusion). Also, do you know if one can one in a congregation or religious society take a religious name?If you belong to a congregation, whether you’re a priest, bishop or brother, you are a religious. You are in simple vows, not solemn. Congregations do not make solemn vows, only orders do. The Oratory was founded for secular priests. They were the leading thinkers of the day.
I’m not sure who is ignoring the Trinitarians? They are always classified under the Augustinian tradition, because they follow the Rule of St. Augustine. But who ignores them? I’m confused. I like them very much. I have to admit that I don’t like the red and blue cross on their scapular, but I like their spirit.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Have you spoken with and/or visited the Carmelites (O.Carm.)? One of our mottoes is “Active Contemplatives”. As for the community aspect, and I think you will find this in all the orders out there, it really depends on the local house how the community life is lived. Some houses stress community recreation and meals as well as community prayer together others just stress one of those. It all depends and this helps one within the larger provincial community to decide what ministry to go into and where to live (if there are multiple houses in an area).
The local community I live in stresses community prayer/Eucharist and community meals. It is an older community so recreation is not currently on the list though the prior is attempting to get a monthly recreation before dinner going. I say stresses but not overly so, the community knows there are times when one must be away and can not make pray and/or a meal and does not raise an issue about it, there are other communities that would though. This is all agreed to by the community and should be written down in a community life plan.
Hope my little rambling helps a bit.
J
JReducation
Guest
I’m just going to piggy-back on what Brother has said here about community life. There are differences. For example the Franciscans and Benedictine orders have not choices in how we live community life, because it’s prescribed in the rule by the founder. We have to pray the Liturgy of the Hours together, we must attend mass together, we must eat together, we must recreate together and we must work togetehr, you may never go out to ministry alone, that has to be an exception not the rule. There are subtle differences in community living. The Benedictine and Franciscan families have to be understood. They were not founded as clerical orders, meaning orders for priests. The priesthood is accidental to us, not necessary. That’s why the emphasis is so strong on community exercises, because the focus is on brotherhood, not ministry.
In clerical communities, because they are orders of priests they are going to have a stronger focus on ministry. This means that they may make some concessions in community life for the sake of the ministry. Whereas the Benedictines and Franciscans only make the concessions on an individual basis, not as a house, province or order. There are individuals who are excused.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
This is something that the younger members in my province are “rebelling” against. The concession in community life.
We are working to restore community life to be number one over the ministry.
J
JReducation
Guest
All the branches of the Franciscan Order struggled with this from about 1900 to 1990, I would say. What happened was that we did the very thing that the Church had tried to protect us from. In the 12th century the Church created orders of Pontifical Rights. As you know, the reason was that the bishops were trying to run the monsteries and tell the monks how to live and what to do for their diocese, as if the monks belonged to the diocese. The monarchs controlled where religious could build their houses an sometimes who could govern them. The rest of the laity was either indifferent to the religious (which was goo) or so involved in the life of the religious that the religious did little else but to tend to the laity. The Pontifical Right was created to prohibit all those interruptions of religious life by placing the orders under the popes.
Well, despite the fact that we had this protection, we went and blew it. In the 1800s religious orders began to take over the administration of parishes. This had never been our ministry. By 1900 bishops just assumed that religious comming into their dioceses were going to run parishes. Many bishops encouraged the religious to take over parishes.
As time passed and the old generation died off, the new generation of men born after WW I entered religious life with a completely different expectation. They entered to be priests, not to be religious. Being a Carmelite or Francsican or Dominican was not that important to them. Remember, these young men grew up with that first generation who took over parishes in the late 1800s. So they had no idea that a friar is a community man first, then a minister. Or that he is a brother and never ceases to be a brother, even if he is ordained. This means that he has duties toward his brothers. These guys did not have a clue about these ideals.
These are the Carmelites, Franciscans, Dominicans and other friars that most people on CAF grew up with. These friars lived as if they were diocesan priests in a religious habit. They had not obligations toward their community. Everything was about the parish and the laity. Because they though tthat was what a religious did. Add to that the fact that many of these friars were immigrants and were serving immigrants. They felt a cloes bond with the faithful.
For the Franciscans the tragedy came in 1985 when the number of friars entering dropped 30%. There was a reason for this. The young men of the Reagan era or the John Paul II generation was much more oriented toward the ascetical life than the previous generation. The result was that we pulled thousands of friars around the world out of parishes. We closed over 300 parishes, because we needed to put our friars back into friaries where they played, prayed, ate, had silence, adoration and other community functions as a family. If this meant closing parishes, then that’s what had to happen. Parishes were closed and many of those friars who were brought back into the friary left the order. They really wanted to be secular priests, not friars. Many joined dioceses and others simply left. We lost several thousand.
The good thing was that today we are back to where we belong. We run some parishes, but always in lower income communities or ethnic parishes. The rest of our work is among the poor. Our friars live in community where they pray three times a day, eat together, do dishes together, recreate together, go on retreat together, wear a habit and are also very committed to spreading the Franciscan spirit.
If you’re younger friars are FINALLY complaining that you guys must return to the model of the early Carmelties who were a brotherhood of hermits, I applaud them. Even if begin by returning to the brotherhood. The hermitages will come. You will find yourselves make some very hard decisions as the Franciscan family has had to make. To tell a bishop that he has to take back his parish and to see it closed, because no one will take it, is very hard and painful. But you have to do it for the good of the Order. In the end, what is good for the Order will be good for the Church.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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CatholicGuy22
Guest
Hello all,
I am discerning the priesthood. I am really interested in being a secular priest to serve God in a parish or any where else my bishop well send me. I still have a great love for the Franciscans but i feel God calling me toward a secular life. After i finish Highschool i will be going to a house of formation for our diocese and begin my journey to the priesthood.
I am discerning the priesthood. I am really interested in being a secular priest to serve God in a parish or any where else my bishop well send me. I still have a great love for the Franciscans but i feel God calling me toward a secular life. After i finish Highschool i will be going to a house of formation for our diocese and begin my journey to the priesthood.
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
If you want to, you can still become a Secular Franciscan. For some reason, a lot of recent(i.e. in the past 150 yrs.) Popes have belonged to O.S.F.
J
JReducation
Guest
Just a quick correction, OSF are not secular Franciscans, we’re religious Franciscans: friars or sisters. OSF stands for Order of St. Francis.
The Secular Franciscans use SFO: Secular Franciscan Order or OFS in Latin.
We all follow the rule of penance, but in differen circumstances. Yes, there have been many popes in the SFO: Leo XIII, Pius X, Pius XII and John XXIII are the most recent ones.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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