Anyone else have problems with this concept of "Safe Sex"?

[crazzeto]

I wish I would have said this to my daughter. Kind of. She got the whole lesson about contraception is wrong, the church is pro-life. She completely missed the lesson that sex outside of marriage is wrong. The result, she refused to use condoms or hormone contraception but she freely planned time for intimacy and had sex frequently with her boyfriend. Now I am a grandmother.

So I had to ask her this, if you were committing sin by having sex before you were ready to be a parent, why was it so important to not sin by not using contraception? Like following one teaching would make disobeying the first teaching ok?!?

She said well I knew it was really important to you that I was not using birth control.

Ummm yah, but then it was also really important to me that you were not having sex. And believe me, we talked about abstistance chastity modesty etc over and over again. The one thing I missed telling her was that 10 days after her period started was when she was most fertile.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents

I can’t tell you how sad I am, to see the wrong message being picked up here. It is our reseponcibility to teach our children the value of not having sex before marriage. You say she “missed” that lesson, how exactly? She was sick that day? This is something that needs to be taught over time, day by day, all the time. More important that even teaching the evils of contraception, is the concept of sexuality as a gift from God.

When one understands sexuality properly, they are far less likely to tresspass against this. And if they do, then perhaps nothing will stop that one particular individual. We are all subject to a fallen nature. Some will not try very hard to fight against it.

Contraception isn’t the answer, the answer is teaching our children the true nature of sexuality. I understand this is easier said that done (believe me, I’m embarking upon this my self, incidently I also lived it my self if you’ve been reading my postings).

 

[crazzeto]

Teen pregnancy is on the rise because teens aren’t using the birth control that readily available to them.

Have you ever seen the MTV show Teen Mom? Well in it they usually have the girl’s friends ask her if she and her boy friend were using protection/ on birth control, etc. I’ve yet to see an episode where the girl says yes she was on birth control and/or he wore a condom.

Now I haven’t seen ALL the episodes so maybe there are ones where the girl got pregnant even when they tried to cover all bases. But the fact remains the vast majority of teen pregnancies come from unprotected sex.

The HORRIBLE abstinence only sex-ed has made so many of our teenagers vastly uneducated and ignorant on how effective and important birth control is when having premarital sex.

I believe no less than 54% of all abortions were proceeded by all kinds of ABC… So try again, that one didn’t stick.

 

[Adam1986]

It applies to everyone, it just so happens that you were given the unique cross of SSA to bare. But I tell you, if you bare this cross, love Christ and make him your all you will not be dissapointed. Indeed you will be the greatest of saints, richely rewarded in the Kingdom of Heaven as well as here on earth in the form of the unsurpassed admiration you will gain from people like me, as well as the dignity you retain by treating your body as what it is, the image of the living God.

You may not realize this, but there are a number of “gay catholics” on this forum living chaste lives in order to build the Kingdome of Heaven here on earth. May I exhort you to seek these like individuals and get their (name removed by moderator)ut.

Like me many of these people didn’t always live such holy lives. Indeed many at one time most certainly believed as you do now, perhaps worse. But they were called by the Lord to be witnesses, like St. Paul, and like the great Saint they responded.

God bless,

Thank you for your very nice post. It was welcoming and not judgemental at all.

I actually am aware of the other gay people on this board who choose to be chaste. I just don’t agree with their lifestlye lol. But I do love my faith as does my BF (he’s Catholic too) and we try our best to live our lives as best we can. We pray the rosary, go to Mass, give to charity and try to always do the right thing.

 

[white_sheep]

Well I’m gay so that whole “premarital sex” kinda doesn’t apply to me since the Church won’t recognize my marriage when I get married.

However, in my opinion, using a condom in my case or the case of any other person having premarital sex, gay or straight, is not a sin. It’s doing the right thing.

I side with the Church on this in saying that you are incorrect. It doesn’t seem like there is more for me to say that you wouldn’t already know.

 

[Adam1986]

I wish I would have said this to my daughter. Kind of. She got the whole lesson about contraception is wrong, the church is pro-life. She completely missed the lesson that sex outside of marriage is wrong. The result, she refused to use condoms or hormone contraception but she freely planned time for intimacy and had sex frequently with her boyfriend. Now I am a grandmother.

So I had to ask her this, if you were committing sin by having sex before you were ready to be a parent, why was it so important to not sin by not using contraception? Like following one teaching would make disobeying the first teaching ok?!?

She said well I knew it was really important to you that I was not using birth control.

Ummm yah, but then it was also really important to me that you were not having sex. And believe me, we talked about abstistance chastity modesty etc over and over again. The one thing I missed telling her was that 10 days after her period started was when she was most fertile.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents

I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I’m also so glad that your daughter chose to keep the baby though.

See that’s the thing, if you’re going to have sex before you’re married, you need to protect yourself so your who life doesn’t evaporate because of one mistake.

 

[crazzeto]

Thank you for your very nice post. It was welcoming and not judgemental at all.

I actually am aware of the other gay people on this board who choose to be chaste. I just don’t agree with their lifestlye lol. But I do love my faith as does my BF (he’s Catholic too) and we try our best to live our lives as best we can. We pray the rosary, go to Mass, give to charity and try to always do the right thing.

Well I will pray for you as well… Please understand that the request for chastity is not an attempt to say you or anyone else “doesn’t deserve love”. Rather, the call to chastity is a call to recognize the greater love of God and the dignity he has given us. He has given us many gifts, and we have received many crosses. It is when we carry them day by day to the Kingdom that we are victorious, it is what makes us Christian.

I’m very pleased to read that you pray the rosary. Please do continue, it has had a most profound effect on my life. Truely it is what made me take a hard look at my life, and forced me to make many changes in my life. I still work at it every day, certainly I’m no saint. But the Blessed Virigin is there with me each time I pray, helping me along the way. She will do no less for you and your love.

God bless,

 

[larsenl1]

I can’t tell you how sad I am, to see the wrong message being picked up here. It is our responsibility to teach our children the value of not having sex before marriage. You say she “missed” that lesson, how exactly? She was sick that day? This is something that needs to be taught over time, day by day, all the time. More important that even teaching the evils of contraception, is the concept of sexuality as a gift from God.

Wow, okay. She missed it as in didn’t take it to heart. She went through RCIA, Theology of the Body for Teens, Totus Tuus, and I had multiple graphic discussions with her about the breaking of the hymen, how sex makes a permanent change in your heart, how it is different for girls than for guys, how it is not love for the 17 year old boy, you are more precious than diamonds, don’t give away the most special part of you…I could go on. She knew that it was wrong, she just didn’t care, thought she was smarter than me, how many more phrases can I throw out. You can’t know this until your 19 year old daughter whom you trust and adore and admire tells you that she is pregnant 3 months into her freshman year of college.

 

[larsenl1]

I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I’m also so glad that your daughter chose to keep the baby though.

See that’s the thing, if you’re going to have sex before you’re married, you need to protect yourself so your who life doesn’t evaporate because of one mistake.

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, she is taking responsibility for her decision. It’s not easy, but she is married by a judge and living with her husband’s parents while he finishes high school. They are keeping the baby, and ultrasound last week showed us that it is a little girl.

I am proud of her for not complaining. I am proud of her for taking care of herself while she is pregnant. I am proud of her for wanting to go to the baptism class at our church.

I just thought I would be a very real and timely story to the discussion, that my daughter actually decided, against all teaching, that it was still okay to have sex and it wasn’t such a big deal to have a baby.

Now she is married, unemployed, dropped out of school, on medicaid. She is finding out why we tried to tell her to wait until she graduated college, had a job, her fiance had a job, and they could afford an apartment on their own.

By getting married, she is financially independent. I cannot by law keep her on my medical dental and vision insurance and we were not going to pay college tuition because being married means her husband is supposed to take care of her. She made her choice, though, and is sticking to it.

 

[crazzeto]

Wow, okay. She missed it as in didn’t take it to heart. She went through RCIA, Theology of the Body for Teens, Totus Tuus, and I had multiple graphic discussions with her about the breaking of the hymen, how sex makes a permanent change in your heart, how it is different for girls than for guys, how it is not love for the 17 year old boy, you are more precious than diamonds, don’t give away the most special part of you…I could go on. She knew that it was wrong, she just didn’t care, thought she was smarter than me, how many more phrases can I throw out. You can’t know this until your 19 year old daughter whom you trust and adore and admire tells you that she is pregnant 3 months into her freshman year of college.

I don’t have a lot of experience yet with 19 year old daughters (I will in 19 years to be exact), but I have a lot of experience being a teenager (I’m 32 now, but I do have a good memory) and I do have at least some idea what is going through your daughters mind.

I had premarital sex, I thought I was smarter and cooler than my parents, I even did use condoms (I now wish I hadn’t, more over had not had sex) etc. ABC isn’t there to save the day, it’s there to enable the behaviour. My wifes mother was the mom you express your desire to have been. She told her daughter contraception was good, she was even the only nurse at a catholic college performing artificial steralizations and she was proud of it. She really pounded that into my wifes head. She told her daughter that if she was going to have sex just go to her and she’ll get her birth control pills.

Guess what, my wife fell into a life of premarital sex and no more talked to her mother about it than your daughter talked you before she got pregant. What happened to your daughter isn’t a case for ABC, it’s a case for constant education, constant afformation, and a case to do your best to be someone your children can trust.

More over, when children do make mistakes anyway (as your daughter did), it’s a time to help the child seek reconciliation. It’s a time for honesty, it is a time to be there for the child who errored, honestly, in my estimation, less than I did.

Your not a horrible mom, but if you think what happened is a case for condoms et. al then you definitantly have gotten the wrong message. It’s not at all a case for ABC… Can’t be, won’t be. Your daughter is better than that, you are better than that. I wish I was my self, but I haven’t always been. I can only do what I can now to be penitential for my grave disregard of the gift of human sexuality. At the very least I am now married to a very good Christian wife who like me, values her dignaty as the image and likeness of God, and like me only seeks the tools given to us by God to regulate births (NFP).

 

[Adam1986]

I believe no less than 54% of all abortions were proceeded by all kinds of ABC… So try again, that one didn’t stick.

Can you please link a source to your claim of 54% of all abortions.

Of course some abortions will be sought after if if the ABC is used. However what kind of ABC being used in very important. Using the pill WITH a condom is a pretty safe bet. Now I know it’s not fool proof but it is pretty good odds.

How ever if you’re just putting some spermacide in there, you’re gonna be in trouble. Same goes for just using the FEMALE condom. Or even a diaphram. It just all depends. Most of those abortions are from poorer women. Women who can’t afford hormonal contraceptives and often buy cheaper condoms. And I will quote Fran Fine from The Nanny, “That’s the one thing you pay retail for!”

 

[Adam1986]

Well I will pray for you as well… Please understand that the request for chastity is not an attempt to say you or anyone else “doesn’t deserve love”. Rather, the call to chastity is a call to recognize the greater love of God and the dignity he has given us. He has given us many gifts, and we have received many crosses. It is when we carry them day by day to the Kingdom that we are victorious, it is what makes us Christian.

I’m very pleased to read that you pray the rosary. Please do continue, it has had a most profound effect on my life. Truely it is what made me take a hard look at my life, and forced me to make many changes in my life. I still work at it every day, certainly I’m no saint. But the Blessed Virigin is there with me each time I pray, helping me along the way. She will do no less for you and your love.

God bless,

Thank you again. We pray the rosary everyday so it’s a big part of our lives.

 

[crazzeto]

Can you please link a source to your claim of 54% of all abortions.

Of course some abortions will be sought after if if the ABC is used. However what kind of ABC being used in very important. Using the pill WITH a condom is a pretty safe bet. Now I know it’s not fool proof but it is pretty good odds.

How ever if you’re just putting some spermacide in there, you’re gonna be in trouble. Same goes for just using the FEMALE condom. Or even a diaphram. It just all depends. Most of those abortions are from poorer women. Women who can’t afford hormonal contraceptives and often buy cheaper condoms. And I will quote Fran Fine from The Nanny, “That’s the one thing you pay retail for!”

The data comes directly from Planned Parenthood
lifenews.com/2011/01/11/report-shows-contraception-failure-54-used-before-abortion/

Who promptly stated that the statistic means we need more contraception. I would suggest Planned Parenthood would be in the perfect position to know how much of the clientel is using ABC prior to precuring an abortion.

 

[larsenl1]

I don’t have a lot of experience yet with 19 year old daughters (I will in 19 years to be exact), but I have a lot of experience being a teenager (I’m 32 now, but I do have a good memory) and I do have at least some idea what is going through your daughters mind.

I had premarital sex, I thought I was smarter and cooler than my parents, I even did use condoms (I now wish I hadn’t, more over had not had sex) etc. ABC isn’t there to save the day, it’s there to enable the behaviour. My wifes mother was the mom you express your desire to have been. She told her daughter contraception was good, she was even the only nurse at a catholic college performing artificial steralizations and she was proud of it. She really pounded that into my wifes head. She told her daughter that if she was going to have sex just go to her and she’ll get her birth control pills.

Guess what, my wife fell into a life of premarital sex and no more talked to her mother about it than your daughter talked you before she got pregant. What happened to your daughter isn’t a case for ABC, it’s a case for constant education, constant afformation, and a case to do your best to be someone your children can trust.

More over, when children do make mistakes anyway (as your daughter did), it’s a time to help the child seek reconciliation. It’s a time for honesty, it is a time to be there for the child who errored, honestly, in my estimation, less than I did.

Your not a horrible mom, but if you think what happened is a case for condoms et. al then you definitantly have gotten the wrong message. It’s not at all a case for ABC… Can’t be, won’t be. Your daughter is better than that, you are better than that. I wish I was my self, but I haven’t always been. I can only do what I can now to be penitential for my grave disregard of the gift of human sexuality. At the very least I am now married to a very good Christian wife who like me, values her dignaty as the image and likeness of God, and like me only seeks the tools given to us by God to regulate births (NFP).

I think you are missing my point. I don’t wish that I would have taught her that premarital sex is okay as long as you use birth control. I wish that the lessons I tried to teach her would have stuck, so to speak. And I don’t understand how she justified not using birth control as ‘following her religion’ and still tries to convince us that having sex before she was married is not a sin. What I am saying is that breaking one rule and keeping another does not even things out. So if she was going to completely disregard our teachings, why not disregard everything.

Facetious, tongue-in-cheek, throwing my hands up in the air, exasperated. I don’t really want her or her younger sister to use birth control.

And I do remember being a teenager. Which is why I worked so damn hard to make her learn from my mistakes.

 

[Adam1986]

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, she is taking responsibility for her decision. It’s not easy, but she is married by a judge and living with her husband’s parents while he finishes high school. They are keeping the baby, and ultrasound last week showed us that it is a little girl.

I am proud of her for not complaining. I am proud of her for taking care of herself while she is pregnant. I am proud of her for wanting to go to the baptism class at our church.

I just thought I would be a very real and timely story to the discussion, that my daughter actually decided, against all teaching, that it was still okay to have sex and it wasn’t such a big deal to have a baby.

Now she is married, unemployed, dropped out of school, on medicaid. She is finding out why we tried to tell her to wait until she graduated college, had a job, her fiance had a job, and they could afford an apartment on their own.

By getting married, she is financially independent. I cannot by law keep her on my medical dental and vision insurance and we were not going to pay college tuition because being married means her husband is supposed to take care of her. She made her choice, though, and is sticking to it.

It’s great that she’s really taking responsibility for her actions. I agree she should have waited to get married and stayed in school. She has a hard life ahead.

It’s just such a shame that some people choose to have premarital sex with no protection at all, and end up getting a very hard life.

 

[crazzeto]

I think you are missing my point. I don’t wish that I would have taught her that premarital sex is okay as long as you use birth control. I wish that the lessons I tried to teach her would have stuck, so to speak. And I don’t understand how she justified not using birth control as ‘following her religion’ and still tries to convince us that having sex before she was married is not a sin. What I am saying is that breaking one rule and keeping another does not even things out. So if she was going to completely disregard our teachings, why not disregard everything.

Facetious, tongue-in-cheek, throwing my hands up in the air, exasperated. I don’t really want her or her younger sister to use birth control.

And I do remember being a teenager. Which is why I worked so damn hard to make her learn from my mistakes.

No it doesn’t even things out, but there’s something your missing here. Breaking two rules doesn’t make the situation any better. So my wife and I used contraception, ok… So we don’t have children now, ok… But at what cost?

How many abortions via contraceptive have we been guilty of? With one girlfriend I went so far as to inject her with a monthly contraceptive injection, this partiuclar one, like the pill and many other contraceptives operates in part by causing abortions.

So how much blood is now on my hands? I have no way of knowing, I won’t have any way of knowing until the judgment where I hope in Christ to be my only salvation.

So the reality of the situation is this, I personally would prefer to be in your daughters position than my own. I’m greatful to God that I have my lovely wife, but I’m so shamed by what I have done at the same time. That your daughter did what she did, truely, is a blessing. Beleive it or not, I peronsally believe she was on a far better track than I was.

 

[Adam1986]

The data comes directly from Planned Parenthood
lifenews.com/2011/01/11/report-shows-contraception-failure-54-used-before-abortion/

Who promptly stated that the statistic means we need more contraception. I would suggest Planned Parenthood would be in the perfect position to know how much of the clientel is using ABC prior to precuring an abortion.

Eh not sure if I believe that it’s 54% now since it came from PP, but like I said it really does matter what kind of ABC you’re on. They didn’t say it was 54% from women taking their pill EVERYDAY and using a condom. They kind of left that vague. So I still stand by my opinion that using the Pill or other hormonal contraceptive CORRECTLY and a condom CORRECTLY are a pretty safe bet. Not 100% of course but still way better then doing nothing.

 

[crazzeto]

Eh not sure if I believe that it’s 54% now since it came from PP, but like I said it really does matter what kind of ABC you’re on. They didn’t say it was 54% from women taking their pill EVERYDAY and using a condom. They kind of left that vague. So I still stand by my opinion that using the Pill or other hormonal contraceptive CORRECTLY and a condom CORRECTLY are a pretty safe bet. Not 100% of course but still way better then doing nothing.

I’ll trust Planned Parenthood to get this statistic right, I hoenstly wouldn’t be at all supprised if the number is higher.

ABC isn’t the answer, understanding trinatarian love is a far better answer.

 

[larsenl1]

Facetious, tongue-in-cheek, throwing my hands up in the air, exasperated. I don’t really want her or her younger sister to use birth control.
.

Crazzeto, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.

What I am saying, bluntly, to my daughter is “What the hell were you thinking?”

There is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

By the way, go to confession and get the blood on your hands cleaned off and stop worrying about it and spreading your scrupulosity.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Wow! Lots of good posts that are good reads!

I’ll have to take some more time (when I am not darting off to class!) to respond to some of them.

However, AntiTheist I would be responding to you since you raise good points, but I can’ t believe how horrifrically rude you are being to me and others. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar, and flies seem to be exactly how you view christians…so…

 

[crazzeto]

Crazzeto, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.

What I am saying, bluntly, to my daughter is “What the hell were you thinking?”

There is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

By the way, go to confession and get the blood on your hands cleaned off and stop worrying about it and spreading your scrupulosity.

I appologize for misunderstanding, I have seen so many people go down the path I thought you were going down that I misunderstood.