Anyone Not Catholic for Non-Theological Reasons?

[Fitswimmer]

I’ve read through some of the thread about being Christian but not Catholic and I see that it is mostly comprised of theological arguments. My problems with the Church are not theological, but political. The secular organizations I belong to, my voting record and my firm stance on the separation of Church and State in the US are the main reasons that I no longer feel welcome there.

Anyone else accept the theology but have trouble with the politics?

 

[ralphinal]

I’ve read through some of the thread about being Christian but not Catholic and I see that it is mostly comprised of theological arguments. My problems with the Church are not theological, but political. The secular organizations I belong to, my voting record and my firm stance on the separation of Church and State in the US are the main reasons that I no longer feel welcome there.

Anyone else accept the theology but have trouble with the politics?

Living in a state that is majority SOuthern Baptist, i love separation of Church and State. I would like to know some of the Social organizations taht are problematic and other positions that you hold that make you feel that this is needed.

I do pray that everyone remains calm

 

[scipio337]

I’ve read through some of the thread about being Christian but not Catholic and I see that it is mostly comprised of theological arguments. My problems with the Church are not theological, but political. The secular organizations I belong to, my voting record and my firm stance on the separation of Church and State in the US are the main reasons that I no longer feel welcome there.

Anyone else accept the theology but have trouble with the politics?

Could you elaborate about what “political” problems you have in the Church?

 

[dmelosi]

I’ve read through some of the thread about being Christian but not Catholic and I see that it is mostly comprised of theological arguments. My problems with the Church are not theological, but political. The secular organizations I belong to, my voting record and my firm stance on the separation of Church and State in the US are the main reasons that I no longer feel welcome there.

Anyone else accept the theology but have trouble with the politics?

The problem is that 1 party insists “no matter what” that abortion is a choice and not killing.

From the threads I have read that you have posted, it is my educated guess that is your main sticking point. I know you are very much against abortion and that is the internal struggle you have.

I don’t know how active you are within your party of trying to reverse that staunch abortion stance, but I would suggest doing so, if you are already not.

I think the problem you are having is that you are trying to say that abortion is a social issue, it is simply a matter of life and death and the most theological issue there is.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I’ve voted Democratic on occasion since 1980, and I might do so again- which is “evil” according to some Bishops. I’ve donated to organizations that fight discrimination against homosexuals, even though they don’t predicate that those homosexuals remain inactive. I’ve also donated to the ACLU, because I believe that in order for me to have civil rights, I must defend the civil rights of others-no matter how much I disagree with them. I also believe that the Separation of Church and State is critical to my freedom of religion. No law should be made in this country that has as it’s only foundation “God said so”. While I agree with the Church position on abortion, I do not believe in the election year ritual of communion denials for politicians. While I follow Church teaching on homosexuality myself, I have trouble with demanding that others who have chosen not to be Catholic do the same.

None of this used to bother me, but of late I have found that my politics and beliefs about society are in conflict with the Church. I used to believe what was most important about being Catholic was believing in the Sacraments, the Creed and the Bible-but now, it seems as if that’s only part of the package.

 

[dmelosi]

I’ve voted Democratic on occasion since 1980, and I might do so again- which is “evil” according to some Bishops. I’ve donated to organizations that fight discrimination against homosexuals, even though they don’t predicate that those homosexuals remain inactive. I’ve also donated to the ACLU, because I believe that in order for me to have civil rights, I must defend the civil rights of others-no matter how much I disagree with them. I also believe that the Separation of Church and State is critical to my freedom of religion. No law should be made in this country that has as it’s only foundation “God said so”. While I agree with the Church position on abortion, I do not believe in the election year ritual of communion denials for politicians. While I follow Church teaching on homosexuality myself, I have trouble with demanding that others who have chosen not to be Catholic do the same.

None of this used to bother me, but of late I have found that my politics and beliefs about society are in conflict with the Church. I used to believe what was most important about being Catholic was believing in the Sacraments, the Creed and the Bible-but now, it seems as if that’s only part of the package.

If you agree with the Church’s position on abortion then you believe that abortion kills a human being. It is simply not a social issue.

Of course there is a “package” of beliefs and teachings. Where did you get the idea that the Sacraments, the Creed and the Bible is the complete “package” of beliefs?

 

[scipio337]

I’ve voted Democratic on occasion since 1980, and I might do so again- which is “evil” according to some Bishops. I’ve donated to organizations that fight discrimination against homosexuals, even though they don’t predicate that those homosexuals remain inactive. I’ve also donated to the ACLU, because I believe that in order for me to have civil rights, I must defend the civil rights of others-no matter how much I disagree with them.

Well, we all commit some evil. Where does the Church teach each of us are sinless?

Fitswimmer:

I also believe that the Separation of Church and State is critical to my freedom of religion. No law should be made in this country that has as it’s only foundation “God said so”.

I’ve lost you there. In a represenative republic, laws are made at the will of the people. A fickle bunch to be sure, but the best system going. If the people proclaim they want a law based on religious belief, it still wouldn’t violate the establishment clause.

Fitswimmer:

While I agree with the Church position on abortion, I do not believe in the election year ritual of communion denials for politicians.

Why not? Are you saying that faiths don’t have the right to punish their (willing) members for violating the tenets of their faith?

Fitswimmer:

While I follow Church teaching on homosexuality myself, I have trouble with demanding that others who have chosen not to be Catholic do the same.

Has being homosexual recently been criminalized? I had no idea!

Fitswimmer:

None of this used to bother me, but of late I have found that my politics and beliefs about society are in conflict with the Church. I used to believe what was most important about being Catholic was believing in the Sacraments, the Creed and the Bible-but now, it seems as if that’s only part of the package.

I think that you’re going to find conflict from any moralist view when applying those morals to political/socio reality. It’s just the nature of the two disciplines.

 

[Fitswimmer]

If you agree with the Church’s position on abortion then you believe that abortion kills a human being. It is simply not a social issue.

Of course there is a “package” of beliefs and teachings. Where did you get the idea that the Sacraments, the Creed and the Bible is the complete “package” of beliefs?

I didn’t call abortion a social issue. My social issues are politics and civil rights.

Beliefs to me meant theological truths, not who is running for President or what non Catholic adults do sexually.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Well, we all commit some evil. Where does the Church teach each of us are sinless? I’ve lost you there. In a represenative republic, laws are made at the will of the people. A fickle bunch to be sure, but the best system going.

If the people proclaim they want a law based on religious belief, it still wouldn’t violate the establishment clause. but I cannot in good conscience support such a law-which puts me in conflict with the Church on gay marriage and civil unions

Why not? Are you saying that faiths don’t have the right to punish their (willing) members for violating the tenets of their faith?
of course they have the right, but I am not convinced that I can be a part of it.

Has being homosexual recently been criminalized? I had no idea!

it has always been criminal to Catholics, my issue is projecting that to non-Catholics.

I think that you’re going to find conflict from any moralist view when applying those morals to political/socio reality. It’s just the nature of the two disciplines.

 

[Wonderboo]

I’m not Roman because I feel called to be a priest…yeah…problem…

 

[Fitswimmer]

I’m not Roman because I feel called to be a priest…yeah…problem…

Yeah, that could be a problem. I haven’t received that call, but I have met some women who would have made wonderful Priests.

 

[Wonderboo]

I know married Catholic men who would make wonderful ones as well…maybe its the huge Protestant hold over but I really dont understand that one…

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’ve voted Democratic on occasion since 1980, and I might do so again- which is “evil” according to some Bishops. I’ve donated to organizations that fight discrimination against homosexuals, even though they don’t predicate that those homosexuals remain inactive. I’ve also donated to the ACLU, because I believe that in order for me to have civil rights, I must defend the civil rights of others-no matter how much I disagree with them. I also believe that the Separation of Church and State is critical to my freedom of religion. No law should be made in this country that has as it’s only foundation “God said so”. While I agree with the Church position on abortion, I do not believe in the election year ritual of communion denials for politicians. While I follow Church teaching on homosexuality myself, I have trouble with demanding that others who have chosen not to be Catholic do the same.

None of this used to bother me, but of late I have found that my politics and beliefs about society are in conflict with the Church. I used to believe what was most important about being Catholic was believing in the Sacraments, the Creed and the Bible-but now, it seems as if that’s only part of the package.

New Catholic here and pretty much I am on the same page as you, politically speaking.

Our faith, what we believe, influences our politics. So a person who votes on an issue, in a certain way, with an influence of faith, is not voting that way because “God said so”, they are exercising their right as every citizen in the US has, and saying “I say so”.

You have to come to an informed decision yourself, and there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. You have to look at the whole package and make decision that you believe is informed, and hopefully faithful. I don’t see how anyone can conclude this means “Republican”.

 

[Fitswimmer]

New Catholic here and pretty much I am on the same page as you, politically speaking.

Our faith, what we believe, influences our politics. So a person who votes on an issue, in a certain way, with an influence of faith, is not voting that way because “God said so”, they are exercising their right as every citizen in the US has, and saying “I say so”.

You have to come to an informed decision yourself, and there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. You have to look at the whole package and make decision that you believe is informed, and hopefully faithful. I don’t see how anyone can conclude this means “Republican”.

I can and I’ve voted for Republicans in the past too. I just don’t think that our vote should brand us evil or that we should feel that we can’t vote for a candidate and remain Catholic.

 

[Skip_Wiley]

I’ve read through some of the thread about being Christian but not Catholic and I see that it is mostly comprised of theological arguments. My problems with the Church are not theological, but political. The secular organizations I belong to, my voting record and my firm stance on the separation of Church and State in the US are the main reasons that I no longer feel welcome there.

Anyone else accept the theology but have trouble with the politics?

I am not a Catholic because I believe that their theology is Unbiblical.

However, even if that weren’t the case, I could not be a Catholic because of the issue of their failure to act to protect children from their priests.

 

[dmelosi]

New Catholic here and pretty much I am on the same page as you, politically speaking.

Our faith, what we believe, influences our politics. So a person who votes on an issue, in a certain way, with an influence of faith, is not voting that way because “God said so”, they are exercising their right as every citizen in the US has, and saying “I say so”.

You have to come to an informed decision yourself, and there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. You have to look at the whole package and make decision that you believe is informed, and hopefully faithful. I don’t see how anyone can conclude this means “Republican”.

Well for starters…

It is hard to ignore the fact the Democratic platform is very clear that they will never waiver that abortion is a choice and promote abortion on demand.

It is also hard to ignore the fact that the Republican platform states very clearly that it is pro life and is against abortion on demand.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I am not a Catholic because I believe that their theology is Unbiblical.

However, even if that weren’t the case, I could not be a Catholic because of the issue of their failure to act to protect children from their priests.

Yeah, that’s a big one. I would have had less problem with it if there had been some kind of public apology from the Bishops that kept moving those criminals around from place to place creating more victims. The Pope finally said something, but there are too many Bishops that have never made any kind of public apology but have a lot to say in public about other people’s sins.

 

[dmelosi]

it has always been criminal to Catholics, my issue is projecting that to non-Catholics.

The statement you make above is simply false. The church has never said that being a homosexual is wrong.

 

[dmelosi]

I am not a Catholic because I believe that their theology is Unbiblical.

However, even if that weren’t the case, I could not be a Catholic because of the issue of their failure to act to protect children from their priests.

This is for another thread, but where do you think you got the bible?

The issue of failure to protect the children is a travesty and there is no excuse for it. The abuse was not done by the church, but some bad humans that preyed on people.

That does not make the fullness of truth that you get from the church any less true.

What demonination are you?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Well for starters…

It is hard to ignore the fact the Democratic platform is very clear that they will never waiver that abortion is a choice and promote abortion on demand.

It is also hard to ignore the fact that the Republican platform states very clearly that it is pro life and is against abortion on demand.

I agree. But there are stances the Republican platform takes that are also hard to ignore. Immigration, environment, poverty.