Anyone performing Baptisms

[smad0142]

How come anybody can validly perform a Baptism, even an atheist, so long as they intend to do what the Church intends and use proper form and matter? Thanks!!

 

[puzzleannie]

yes if the person to be baptized is in danger of death.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The same reason that a man and a woman marooned on a desert island, who are free to marry otherwise, can exchange vows and validly marry without a priest being present to perform the ceremony. . .because in extraordinary circumstances the actual sacrament itself does not require the witness of the priest to be valid.

In a baptism by a layperson, in circumstances where the child is in danger of death, (extraordinary circumstances) the actual sacrament involving the baptism by water and the trinitarian formula, does not require the witness of the priest in order to be valid.

Of course, in NORMAL circumstances the priest presides at weddings and at baptisms, but God has made it possible that in extraordinary circumstances the sacraments can still be administered by lay persons. That’s my understanding anyway.

 

[1ke]

How come anybody can validly perform a Baptism, even an atheist, so long as they intend to do what the Church intends and use proper form and matter? Thanks!!

Because it is necessary for salvation and therefore must be available in circumstances when a priest is not.

 

[smad0142]

But a layperson can not say the Mass or hear Confessions in the abscence of the Priest. My question really pertains to how come even a non-baptized person can do it. And the fact that a Priest is absent doesn’t answer why it can happen, only when it can happen.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

But a layperson can not say the Mass or hear Confessions in the abscence of the Priest. My question really pertains to how come even a non-baptized person can do it. And the fact that a Priest is absent doesn’t answer why it can happen, only when it can happen.

Because the Holy Spirit has said that in the case of baptism in EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, the requirement for validity is water baptism and the Trinitarian formula, and the person administrating such need NOT be a priest and in fact may be any lay person, Catholic or not, provided said person knows what is meant by baptism in the Catholic faith and intends to baptise as such.

IOW, it happens because the Holy Spirit has determined that in extraordinary conditions in this particular sacrament, the sacrament itself does not require a priest. Same for the man and woman marrying on the desert island.

However, as you noted, you can’t just confess and be absolved by a lay person in lieu of a priest, nor can a lay person administer holy orders.

SOME sacraments require the administration, even in ‘extraordinary’ situations, of a priest. Some do not. That is due to the nature of the sacrament itself and to the decision of the Spirit.

In confession for example, ‘face to face’ participation with a priest is absolutely necessary.

but in marriage, for example, the priest is a WITNESS. It is the COUPLE who marry each other. That’s why in extraordinary circumstances (desert island) a couple can marry validly without a priest.

In the case of baptism, what is absolutely required is water and the Trinitarian formula and while a priest is the NORMAL person to administer such it is not absolutely required that he is the ONLY person to administer such.

Understand?

It is the decision of the Holy Spirit, it is logical, it makes sense.

 

[RosaryFan]

But a layperson can not say the Mass or hear Confessions in the abscence of the Priest. My question really pertains to how come even a non-baptized person can do it. And the fact that a Priest is absent doesn’t answer why it can happen, only when it can happen.

In an extraordinary circumstance (in danger of death), a priest is not necessary for the sacrament of confession, either.

God is good and merciful and gives us every opportunity for salvation.

 

[JamestheOlder]

In an extraordinary circumstance (in danger of death), a priest is not necessary for the sacrament of confession, either.

God is good and merciful and gives us every opportunity for salvation.

You may want to clarify that. For the Sacrament of Penance at danger of death, a priest is necessary, even without faculties.

 

[JamestheOlder]

But a layperson can not say the Mass or hear Confessions in the abscence of the Priest. My question really pertains to how come even a non-baptized person can do it. And the fact that a Priest is absent doesn’t answer why it can happen, only when it can happen.

Situation: Grandmother is visiting new-born. Not sure the kids will have the baby baptized…ever. Grandmother baptizes baby with water and the Trinitarian formula, then admits it later to her priest/Pastor. Priest/Pastor is REQUIRED to enter the Baptism in the legal Church records for the parish where that hospital is located…

Point: it doesn’t have to occur “in danger of death”. Any person can baptize; the “worth” of the person does not count. Any woman and man can exchange valid Sacrament of Marriage vows (no impediments); they are married in the eyes of the Church (lack of form).

Good reading: go check out the existence of the Japanese Church, driven underground by persecution, without ordained ministers. Still were baptized and married. But no other Sacraments.

Peace.

 

[smad0142]

Actually one can receieve absolution when in danger of death by saying an Act of Contrition, per the Council of Trent I believe. If the person does not die, then the danger of death was not sufficient to make it a valid Confession.

Back to my question though: Does anyone know when the Church decided that any person can baptize in extraordinary circumstances, i.e. the first document to determine this?

 

[RosaryFan]

You may want to clarify that. For the Sacrament of Penance at danger of death, a priest is necessary, even without faculties.

Okay. I’ll clarify what I meant.

If you find yourself in immediate danger of death (i.e., you’ve just been in a car accident and you’re bleeding to death but still conscious), you may certainly make atonement for your sins (even mortal) in those final moments of your life without the presence of a priest. Of course, this requires perfect contrition, but absolution from your sins would certainly be granted and your soul would be saved from damnation.

 

[Tomster]

Actually one can receieve absolution when in danger of death by saying an Act of Contrition, per the Council of Trent I believe. If the person does not die, then the danger of death was not sufficient to make it a valid Confession.

Back to my question though: Does anyone know when the Church decided that any person can baptize in extraordinary circumstances, i.e. the first document to determine this?

A constitution attributed to Pope St. Victor (189-198), authorizes the administration of baptism in case of necessity, in any palce whatsoever, by a Christian to a pagan who has previously recited the symbol of faith, the Creed. St. Cyril of Jerusalem tells us that baptism can be conferred by the ignorant as well as by the learned, by slaves as well as by freemen. Clearly, though he is speaking of Christians, St. Cyril is not speaking of the clergy alone, as they would not come under the category of ignorant. St Jerome tells us that though neither a priest nor a deacon can ordinarily baptise without chrism and the mandate of a bishop; yet, if necessity arises, even laymen can baptise. There are many quotations from the Fathers on this point. The general Catholic custom and conviction is clear and emphatic.It was, however, always recognized that a person baptised in such circumstances of necessity by a layman should present himself, as soon as possible, to a bishop, for the imposition of hands and the Sacrament of Confirmation. Nonetheless, should anyone die who had been baptised by a layman, and had not been confirmed, his salvation was regarded as secure.