Anyone read David Currie's Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind?

[Mannyfit75]

Anyone read Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind by David Currie?

Here is a summary of the book:

Author David Currie grew up conviced that one day all true Christians will suddenly be snatched up to heaven. The unfortunate souls left behind by this “rapture” will endure seven horrible years of tribulation, at the end of which Christ will return to earth for a glorious thousand-year reign.
Today, millions accept this end-times theology, assuming — as Currie did — that the Bible clearly teaches it. Many plan their lives around it. But, after studying Scripturefor decades, Currie has come to see that accepting the Bible means rejecting the rapture.

In this remarkable book — the world’s most careful and thorough scriptural study of the rapture — Currie demonstrates why. He considers all the relevant verses ( there are hundreds!) and examines them in the light of ancient history, the writings of the earliest Christians, and the claims of the rapturist theologians. With painstaking thoroughness, he unlocks the meaings of key biblical prophecies that culminate in Christ’s Messianic Kingdom— including those verses in Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation that rapturists turn to most.

Marshaling evidence as startling as it is compelling, Currie argues that these prophecies of war and tribulation don’t point to some still-unrealized apocalyptic future. Rather, most of them were fulfilled long ago: the spiritual, priestly Kingdom prefigured in the Old Testament was inaugurated on Calvary, consumated in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the Temple, and continues to exist today…the Catholic Church!

That surprise you. Yet, as Currie shows, it’s the only conclusion that fits all the scriptural and historical evidence.

Rapture: The End-Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind makes Scripture, prophecy, and history come alive; and it demonstrates that if you open your Bible, you’ll find that God’s plan for the future of the world is not filled with darkness and disaster, but with light, mercy, and hope.
**
About the Author**

David B. Currie is a former Fundamentalist missionary whose deep study of the Bible led him into the Catholic Church. He is a popular speaker and author of Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic.

 

[Sabda]

I just ordered it recently. I have heard good things about this one so I’m anxious to read it.

 

[carol_marie]

This would be the perfect book for a dear friend of mine who is so into the end times / rapture. She see signs all over and she ends every conversation with, “Talk to you soon… or see you up in the clouds if the rapture happens.”

I think this would make a lovely Christmas gift for her.

 

[tundramom]

No I haven’t but thanks for the heads up! I would like to read this book.

in Christ
Steph

 

[calchiquita]

Yes, I read this book. I think his best point is that it has been the last days ever since the Incarnation and that a thousand years stands for a very very very very long time - with this in mind we should know the end is Imminent, meaning it could be any time. But it could also be a million years from now, so we should not stand around saying “Oh, look at the state of the world, good thing it will end soon”, we should be taking care of things.

At least that’s how I remember it. Right now my friend 2000 miles away has borrowed the book.

 

[Fidelis]

Yes, I’ve read it and I would say it is the definitive Catholic book on the “End Times.” Not only is it written by a former Evangelical who is now a Catholic, it very thoroughly refutes the silly “Rapture theology” promoted by the likes of Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsay, among many. It also gives a summary of the Catholic position, as well as *extensive *treatments of Daniel and Revelation.

Highly recommended, especially as a gift to a Protestant who needs to get their head on straight about the historical and orthodox view of this topic.

 

[sconea]

I have read this book…twice! and cannot recommend it highly enough. You would have to literally pour through hundreds of texts and writings to find what Mr Currie puts together in this one book. His chapter on Daniel is particularly pertinent for today.

He covers all the ‘end times’ verses and books, early writers, early church fathers etc. This current generation of Catholics has been desperately in need of a book like this for years. Not just a book debunking the ‘rapturist ideas’ but a book explaining all these “end time” scenarios that Catholics are falling for all over the place.

If you read carefully you will discover that one of the main reasons for certain twisted interpretations being so pushed today is to deny that the Kingdom Christ came to establish and did establish…is the Catholic Church!

The book was just released in 2003 by Sophia Institute Press. Read the customer reviews at amazon for a quick picture. Scott Hahn wrote the forward and I remember he said something to the effect that ‘Dave Currie has done something amazing here.’
Indeed he has!!

 

[Jeanette_L]

I haven’t read this one yet, but I did read one called The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen, who also is a former Evangelical, now Catholic. It was a good book also.

I will put The End-Times Error on my to-read list (it’s about a mile long ). It sounds like it may have a different angle to it.

I find as a former Evangelical, I still have a lot of that “end times” mindset still lurking about in my brain and I have to reinforce the traditional Christian position time and again just to re-orient myself once more. It’s a tough addiction to break!

I do find myself getting caught up in the idea that we could indeed be seeing the end of time. Even JP2 made references a couple of times about the possibility of the end because of the magnitude of crisis we see in our times. The world is a very different place than it was thousands of years ago. Every little ripple in the pond seems to affect the whole world to such a startling degree because our world is shrinking, I don’t see how we can possibly pull ourselves out of this collision course we’re on. Everyone has nukes and most of those who have them are nuts.

I’m not saying I believe the Rapture stuff anymore, but I do believe in the Second Coming of Christ, and I pray “Come quickly, Lord Jesus!”. This world is crazy!

 

[sconea]

Jeanette L…you brought up such a good point about getting some of the current end-time ideas out of your head. I have many friends, also former evangelicals or even reverts to the Catholic faith and they all say the same thing. That is that it is so hard to ‘undo’ those ideas. They apparently really get a grip on one’s way of thinking.

Everyone who has read this book has also commented how much it helped them with this problem…they all said, they felt that now that they truly understoood, they were finally free of the programming and influence that they just couldn’t shake before. It really gave them peace.

In fact since Dave Currie grew up with the whole rapture theology and I think he may have been inspired to write this book, for some of these same personal reasons. He really wanted to know the truth. His research is incredible.

Mr Thigpen’s book, I agree, was also good, but it was mainly dealing with just the rapture theology, whereas Mr Currie’s book tends to cover the whole end-time picture.

I totally agree with your last comment.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I read the whole book and he makes a very excellent intrepretation of the Book of Daniel and Book of Revelations, and it does seen clear. His book is convincing and he very much give references to his sources. It’s well written and Mr. Currie has given a lot of effort in this book.

I am tempted to read it again the second time.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I plan to read it as well.

Side note. I have always wondered about the Pre-Trib rapture theory and the Great Tribulation by asking this question.

How can it be a Great Tribulation if prior to it, all the Christians are raptured up before hand, when all that is left are non-believers, who do you persecute, if it happens that none of the non-believers become believers, even though 144,000 Jews will be converted somehow, if there not any believers around, how would these 144,000 get converted?

 

[sconea]

JoeyWarren …i think this book was written for people like you who question the logic of so much of the end-times nonsense. Your questions will indeed be answered - logically

 

[Jeanette_L]

One of my biggest hangups or snags maybe, in trying to shake my Evangelical end-times background, is the relationship with Israel. I still feel compelled to believe that God still has “unfinished” business, so to speak, with Israel. This is what we were always taught, and it is why you will find that the nation of Israel’s biggest supporters, both politically and even financially, is the Evangelical community, because of their end-times system of beliefs.

What exactly is the Catholic position on this, does anyone know, or do I have to buy the book?

I’m just curious if anyone here can give a decent explanation of the Catholic position, or if the Church even has a firm position concerning Israel in the end times, whenever they might happen to come about!

Thanks.

 

[Mannyfit75]

One of my biggest hangups or snags maybe, in trying to shake my Evangelical end-times background, is the relationship with Israel. I still feel compelled to believe that God still has “unfinished” business, so to speak, with Israel. This is what we were always taught, and it is why you will find that the nation of Israel’s biggest supporters, both politically and even financially, is the Evangelical community, because of their end-times system of beliefs.

What exactly is the Catholic position on this, does anyone know, or do I have to buy the book?

I’m just curious if anyone here can give a decent explanation of the Catholic position, or if the Church even has a firm position concerning Israel in the end times, whenever they might happen to come about!

Thanks.

The Catholic Church acknowledge the existence of Israel, and consider the Jews themselves as “their elder brothers and sisters of God” since it was through them that Jesus came.

As far as I’m concerning, before Jesus Second Coming, a great number of Jews will be converted to Christianity according to some Catholic Theologians, I’m not sure if there is an official Church document that states that fact, However, in the Holy Bible, it is stated somewhere that the Jews in time will be converted and acknowledge Jesus Christ as their True Messiah. I think this the view of the majority of Catholics.

If any Catholic can cite that verse which I am refering too, please cite it here. It’s late her and I need to go to bed.

 

[Jeanette_L]

The Catholic Church acknowledge the existence of Israel, and consider the Jews themselves as “their elder brothers and sisters of God” since it was through them that Jesus came.

As far as I’m concerning, before Jesus Second Coming, a great number of Jews will be converted to Christianity according to some Catholic Theologians, I’m not sure if there is an official Church document that states that fact, However, in the Holy Bible, it is stated somewhere that the Jews in time will be converted and acknowledge Jesus Christ as their True Messiah. I think this the view of the majority of Catholics.

If any Catholic can cite that verse which I am refering too, please cite it here. It’s late her and I need to go to bed.

I think I know which one you are referring to. It has to do with them looking upon the One whom they had pierced, and at that point is when their salvation comes. And this is exactly the type of Biblical reference used by the Evangelicals to support their view that Israel will suffer almost complete annihilation in the end until Christ returns to save a remnant, and they will recognize Him as their Messiah.

So, I guess I was wondering if the Catholic Church has a similar view as to this taking place before the Second Coming of Christ?

 

[Fidelis]

One of my biggest hangups or snags maybe, in trying to shake my Evangelical end-times background, is the relationship with Israel. I still feel compelled to believe that God still has “unfinished” business, so to speak, with Israel. This is what we were always taught, and it is why you will find that the nation of Israel’s biggest supporters, both politically and even financially, is the Evangelical community, because of their end-times system of beliefs.

What exactly is the Catholic position on this, does anyone know, or do I have to buy the book?

I’m just curious if anyone here can give a decent explanation of the Catholic position, or if the Church even has a firm position concerning Israel in the end times, whenever they might happen to come about!

Thanks.

These quotes from the Catechism of the CAtholic Church, based primarily on Romans 9–11, will give you an idea (you’ll have to see the actual Catechism to see the referenced footnotes):

**674 **The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus. St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old.” St. Paul echoes him: “For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?” The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”, will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.

839 **“Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” **

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God.” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

I’d further recommend Scott Hahn’s tape series “All Isreal Will Be Saved,” or the excellent book by Roy Schoemaker, “Salvation Is From The Jews.”

 

[Jeanette_L]

These quotes from the Catechism of the CAtholic Church, based primarily on Romans 9–11, will give you an idea (you’ll have to see the actual Catechism to see the referenced footnotes):

I’d further recommend Scott Hahn’s tape series “All Isreal Will Be Saved,” or the excellent book by Roy Schoemaker, “Salvation Is From The Jews.”

Thank you! Great references. And I thought I had devoured all of Hahn’s stuff, but I have definitely missed this one.

I guess I need to explore this more deeply, because it affects how I see the world, current events… I need to understand more clearly as to whether God sees the secular nation of Israel as the same thing as “Israel” of the Old Covenant. This is where I am confused. Is there a difference?

 

[Fidelis]

I guess I need to explore this more deeply, because it affects how I see the world, current events… I need to understand more clearly as to whether God sees the secular nation of Israel as the same thing as “Israel” of the Old Covenant. This is where I am confused. Is there a difference?

The modern, secular nation State of Israel is not equivalent to the biblical kingdom of the same name. OT Israel was a theocracy established by God to be led by Him and was closely tied to how well they trusted in him and obeyed the statutes he gave them. This nation came to an end when, by and large, they did not recognize their Messiah in Jesus Christ and when their temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD – thus ending their sacrificial system. The modern state of Israel, aided by the UN and Protestant Christians sympathetic to Dispensationalism, was established by Socialist Jewish refugees primarily from Easten Europe and Russia. Even many modern Jews correctly do not equate OT Israel with the State of Israel – though they rightly defend it’s right to exist in peace (as do I, of course).

Beginning Apologetics 8, What Catholics Believe About the Second Coming, the Rapture, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and Indulgences, in commenting on some of the errors of the “Rapture” enthusists, states:

A Faulty View of Israel
The OT is fulfilled in the NT. The OT priesthood is fulfilled in the priesthood of Christ. The OT sacrifices were fulfilled in the sacrifice of Calvary. Likewise, the OT Israel is fulfilled in the NT Church – the New Israel of God (Galatians 6:16). OT prophesies regarding Israel find their ultimate fulfillment in the Church. There will be no return to OT Israel as God’s covenant people since the NT Church is the new and eternal covenant of God.

To equate the current nation of Israel – created in 1948 by the United Nations, a secular, anti-Christian institution – with the OT covenant nation of Israel shows a faulty understanding of both history and Scripture. The OT Israel was established by God on Mount Sinai as part of the OT covenant given to Moses. That is why Israel was a covenant nation. The current nation of Israel has no religious significance to us as Christians. However, we do beleive the Jews are still in God’s plan, as St. Paul teaches in Romans 11. One day they will enter the Church and become part of the NT chosen people.
catholicapologetics.com/ba8a.htm

This *Catholic Answers *interview with Jewish converts Rosalind Moss and Roy Schoeman (not Schoemaker, as I mistated above)may also be helpful.
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501fea3.asp

 

[Jeanette_L]

Thanks for the info. I printed out the interview and will read tonight. I also made a quick visit to your Catholic Scripture Study webpage, put a bookmark there for a near future perusal. Thanks for your help!

 

[Mijoy2]

Thank you! Great references. And I thought I had devoured all of Hahn’s stuff, but I have definitely missed this one.

I guess I need to explore this more deeply, because it affects how I see the world, current events… I need to understand more clearly as to whether God sees the secular nation of Israel as the same thing as “Israel” of the Old Covenant. This is where I am confused. Is there a difference?

Jeanette L, I’d further recommend visiting Shoeman’s web site by the same name of his book www.salvationisfromthejews.com.

In particular find and listen (it’s a pretty easy site to navigate around) to his interview by Steve Wood (I beleive is his name). It’s facinating and talks a great deal about end-time issues from a Catholic perspective. Schoeman has been well received by virtually all of EWTNs most popular personalities. He’s been a quest at one time or another on all of EWTNs broadcasts. This says a lot to me about Schoeman’s credability.

You’ll also find he has a new book on the horizon. I can’t wait!