Anyone who leaves the Catholic Church should become Eastern Orthodox instead of Protestant

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Churches split from the RCC (schism) as the RCC their parent went into schism against the ancient church. Ask yourself why one patriarch was right and the others wrong???Not even Peter claimed that authority. Ask yourself why you developed innovative doctrines that were not part of the conciliar church.

The important question to ask is why doctrinal development and Ecumenical Councils stopped post 1054 AD. Orthodox typically say that it’s because they did not have to clarify doctrines in light of heresies.

If doctrinal development occurred pre-1054 AD, there is no reason why it had to stop post-1054 AD (or Ecumenical Councils stopping post 787 AD). The Orthodox still believe that an Ecumenical Council can be called today if necessary.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

They are invalid regardless of their position. The Anglican Church was founded by Henry VIII, the adulterer and murderer.

Manny, this post is lame and you know it. You didn’t read ONE WORD of my post and understand it. The Dutch Touch validated their orders. Maybe you don’t like that but it’s a fact. Just like the Orthodox have valid orders (but for some reason you’re ok with them, you were even planning on converting to Orthodoxy recently?), the Old Catholics have valid orders, and some Lutherans maintained apostolic succession in northern Europe, so do Anglicans through the Utrecht Dutch Touch. Why don’t you understand that this came AFTER Apostolicae Curae was written? Have you bothered to read about this?

It’s a tired and cheesy argument that Henry VIII was a bad guy who chopped heads off so any Anglican priest for all eternity is invalid and impotent as a pastor. You say you’re a history geek but I’m surprised by how much history you ignore? Henry’s church had Latin, the priest with his back to the congregation, confession, a maintained belief in transubstantiation, Marian dogmas, you name it. The Anglicanism we have today is more based on the Elizabethan Settlement and the reforms after Archbishop Matthew Parker. And Anglicans don’t look to the life of Henry VIII for inspiration and theology, they look to men like Thomas Hooker, Lancelot Andrewes, Thomas Cranmer, the Tractarians, etc.

And why are you quick to attach nasty adjectives to old King Hank but you won’t attach adulterer, out-of-wedlock impregnator, war-monger, and other adjectives to the Borja popes and some other less savory popes? Catholicism has had its share of crooked popes. Both denominations have their share of heroes and villains. Let’s be fair, bud?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

And while I’m at it, I find this whole thread contradicting and fascinating at the same time. It reaffirms my statement in a recent post on another thread that many Catholics in CAF are intimidated and beholdant to the Orthodox, feeling a need to find approval with them, etc. It’s like how Clinton and Bush, Sr. both sucked up to Ross Perot, the Independent. It was hilarious in the 92 election and it reminds me of what I see in CAF sometimes.

If the OP truly believes that the Roman Catholic Church is THE only true Church founded by Christ Himself on Peter as the one and only rock, infallible, universal in jurisdiction, prime in significance and power, and that the Church can issue council-free infallible statements with anathemas attached that send those who are out of line with papal teaching straight to hell, how can he in good conscience recommend that people not willing to accept Roman Catholicism should at least join up with the ‘second best’ choice backup position of Orthodoxy? This isn’t settling for going to Canada instead of the U.S. or for vanilla when you’re out of chocolate here, this is a belief in an infallible, unilaterally true Church that is the only source of salvation in the OP’s mind so how could the Orthodox, who reject papal jurisdictions, papal infallibility, the filioque, some Marian dogmas of Catholicism, and many other outlooks that Rome has, how could that be ok? Most Orthodox view Catholicism as the other side of a coin with Protestantism itself! Most Orthodox view Roman Catholic orders as worthless and devoid of grace!? I find the premise fascinating and bizarre…

 

[Mannyfit75]

And while I’m at it, I find this whole thread contradicting and fascinating at the same time. It reaffirms my statement in a recent post on another thread that many Catholics in CAF are intimidated and beholdant to the Orthodox, feeling a need to find approval with them, etc. It’s like how Clinton and Bush, Sr. both sucked up to Ross Perot, the Independent. It was hilarious in the 92 election and it reminds me of what I see in CAF sometimes.

If the OP truly believes that the Roman Catholic Church is THE only true Church founded by Christ Himself on Peter as the one and only rock, infallible, universal in jurisdiction, prime in significance and power, and that the Church can issue council-free infallible statements with anathemas attached that send those who are out of line with papal teaching straight to hell, how can he in good conscience recommend that people not willing to accept Roman Catholicism should at least join up with the ‘second best’ choice backup position of Orthodoxy? This isn’t settling for going to Canada instead of the U.S. or for vanilla when you’re out of chocolate here, this is a belief in an infallible, unilaterally true Church that is the only source of salvation in the OP’s mind so how could the Orthodox, who reject papal jurisdictions, papal infallibility, the filioque, some Marian dogmas of Catholicism, and many other outlooks that Rome has, how could that be ok? Most Orthodox view Catholicism as the other side of a coin with Protestantism itself! Most Orthodox view Roman Catholic orders as worthless and devoid of grace!? I find the premise fascinating and bizarre…

If you are devout Catholic and understand what your faith is, you wouldn’t be leaving it in the first place. There are those in the Catholic Church who lost touch with their Catholic identity so they want to give themselves an excuse to leave the Church. From my own experience, the really bad Ex-Catholics are those who are in the BORN-Catholic, Fundumentalist Christians of the Protestant Tradition. My encounters with Eastern Orthodox had no negative view of the Catholic Church even if they are Ex-Catholics.

The Protestants who were Former Catholics are angry with the Catholic Church, and they claim they went to RCIA and were taught, but finally departed… like they didn’t know Jesus Christ. What a load of lies. It would be just better to see them go to a more historical Christian Church. If you were Catholic, how come they never taught about who Jesus Christ is? Either the Catechist have no clue what he was teaching.

 

[Hesychios]

Anyone leaving the catholic church to join the orthodox church inflicts themselves with the deadly wound of schism thus damning themselves.

:takethat:

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If you are devout Catholic and understand what your faith is, you wouldn’t be leaving it in the first place. There are those in the Catholic Church who lost touch with their Catholic identity so they want to give themselves an excuse to leave the Church. From my own experience, the really bad Ex-Catholics are those who are in the BORN-Catholic, Fundumentalist Christians of the Protestant Tradition. My encounters with Eastern Orthodox had no negative view of the Catholic Church even if they are Ex-Catholics.

The Protestants who were Former Catholics are angry with the Catholic Church, and they claim they went to RCIA and were taught, but finally departed… like they didn’t know Jesus Christ. What a load of lies. It would be just better to see them go to a more historical Christian Church. If you were Catholic, how come they never taught about who Jesus Christ is? Either the Catechist have no clue what he was teaching.

I disagree with the premise that a person can be completely, totally well-catechized, well-informed, and deeply knowledgable of Catholicism and leave it unless they’re an idiot. It’s not always true. I know people in Anglican circles and Protestant circles who thoroughly understand transubstantiation, apostolic succession, sacramentalism, the catechism, Church history, infallibility, Mary, communion of saints, and Catholic theology in general, who find themselves not believing in it. You yourself believe in it and find it very very comforting and true. Some don’t. And to quite honest, not all former Catholics hate the RCC. My experience in Protestant (mostly Anglican) circles was that the RCC never comes up. Before, when I was Anglican and tried to bash my then-former Catholic parish, my Anglican rector usually disagreed and said nothing but nice things about the RCC despite his disagreements. When I have thought of leaving Catholicism, I’ve spoken with Anglicans in person and online who talked me out of it and were nothing but complimentary and respectful to Catholicism.

I have also had conversations with some that resent the Church like you say. It depends. But I have also spoken with Orthodox who LOATHE the idea of infallibility and are thrilled to be in a non-papal form of Catholicism. Many Orthodox don’t like Catholicism.

There are people in EVERY denomination of Christianity who feel the “been there, done that, goodbye and good riddence!” approach to their old religion. There are Catholics in here day in and day out who say, “I thank the Lord for showing me the way out of my horrible old ___________(insert denomination here) Church! Praise God for showing me Catholic Answers and the truth!!” Conversely there are those who believe, “Praise God for showing me the way out of that stale, top-heavy, hierarchical Catholic Church that has stunted my relationship with Christ. I had no fellowship there, poor pastoral care, little interaction, lousy sermons, and no spiritual relationship with Christ.” Each is Christian but feels the former “life” was a bland, unfullfilling, empty mode of worship.

Today at Church I found it ironic and cool that Jesus is walking with the apostles who get REALLY ANGRY when they see a group of men healing and preaching in the name of Jesus. The apostles get REAL ANGRY when they see someone without the authority of their little group, without permission and the right credentials, invoking the name of Jesus. It’s so funny how Jesus says, “If they are not against us, they are for us.” I just love that comment. It almost sounds like if a Lutheran or Anglican is preaching the good news, loving his neighbor, visiting the sick and inferm, fighting against abortion and the sins of the world, he’s not against the Church but for it…interesting!!

 

[East_Anglican]

This is my view. Since Protestantism have broken off with Historical Christianity, any Catholics who wish to join that Sect should reconsider joining the Eastern Orthodox Church instead of Protestantism.

Many have via the Baptists and Anglicans.

I can point out several reasons. The Eastern Orthodox Church is in Schismatic with the

Though I don’t believe in this one true church sectarian nonsense when it comes to being the one true church built on Christ and the apostles the Eastern Orthodox have the best claim. This is why they call R.C’s the first schismaatics.

and they have valid Sacraments (Seven of them) .

All protestants have them too under differant names but they don’t call them sacraments. As they’re all in scripture we can’t argue against them. The differance is that we only except baptism and Communion as sacraments due to them being signs of the covenant.

they have valid Holy Orders

Apostolic Succesion is a mind numbingly boring subject that isn’t scriptural.

and believe in the Real Presence.

So do all Protestants. Yes they do! As Jesus said “When two or three are gathered in my name, there I’ll be in the midst of them” we can’t not believe in the Real Presence. Also we all have some sort of epiclesis and nobody has ever said that it is only bread and wine. There may be differant understandings to explain it but nobody has said that it is not his body and his blood.

The trouble is some people don’t listen hard enough or are just awful at explaining things.

They can also trace their origins back to the Apostles and Jesus Christ.

As The Reformers were all Catholic, so can all Protestants.

 

[GKC]

They are invalid regardless of their position. The Anglican Church was founded by Henry VIII, the adulterer and murderer.

Which would not be what made Anglican orders invalid, according to Rome . See Apostolicae Curae.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[GKC]

At last, an honest post about Anglicans without prejudice or exaggeration! Kudos!

Programs. Getchyer programs here. Can’t tell
yer Anglicans apart without a program.

GKC

 

[Justy90]

It is and Anglicans do have 7 Sacraments but they are not valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church. For one you sect ordain homosexuals, and women. That is completely “unorthodox” and a complete departure from historical Christianity.

You are completely and voluntarily ignorant of churches outside of your own. I would not be proud of this as you seem to revel in it. It doesn’t further your cause to just reiterate previous rhetoric that nobody listens to or buys into here any more. Again, this is a dead-beat thread. I’d be ashamed.:stretcher:

 

[Justy90]

If you are devout Catholic and understand what your faith is, you wouldn’t be leaving it in the first place. There are those in the Catholic Church who lost touch with their Catholic identity so they want to give themselves an excuse to leave the Church. From my own experience, the really bad Ex-Catholics are those who are in the BORN-Catholic, Fundumentalist Christians of the Protestant Tradition. My encounters with Eastern Orthodox had no negative view of the Catholic Church even if they are Ex-Catholics.

The Protestants who were Former Catholics are angry with the Catholic Church, and they claim they went to RCIA and were taught, but finally departed… like they didn’t know Jesus Christ. What a load of lies. It would be just better to see them go to a more historical Christian Church. If you were Catholic, how come they never taught about who Jesus Christ is? Either the Catechist have no clue what he was teaching.

You are so prejudiced with stereotyping and pure ignorance it stinks to high Heaven. You can’t honestly believe that you are bringing people to Christ with this garbage.

 

[Justy90]

They are invalid regardless of their position. The Anglican Church was founded by Henry VIII, the adulterer and murderer.

And more than 107 of Roman Catholic clergy are convicted Homosexual pedophiles. Need we go into each others closets here? I don’t think any of it is appropriate here.

 

[Janet1983]

Most Protestant Churches do not believe in Real Presence and they do not have valid Sacraments, nor they not believe in them, and they have problems with the Pope Eastern Orthodox should do find because they do not believe in Petrine Authority…(note I said Petrine Authority not Rome Authority because Rome is not authority that concerns Papacy but the See of St. Peter not the City of Rome).

So if you are Catholic and want to leave the CC, reconsider joining the Eastern Orthodox Church. They are historical Christians just like Catholics.

Did you ever consider that there are Christians who leave the CC just because of these reasons? Why should someone who does that wish to even consider (much less reconsider) joining a church that has the same theology in these points?

 

[4giveme]

So where do you want them to go then?

Manny,
Maybe they should not go anywhere, and maybe seek a council from a Priest (of the RCC) and talk out there feelings about whatever problems they have. If we encourage them to leave they will be giving up more then they realize at the time of there departure from the true word. So lets pray for them to stay!!
Tommy

 

[East_Anglican]

They are invalid regardless of their position. The Anglican Church was founded by Henry VIII, the adulterer and murderer.

What garbage!

Did you support the IRA too?

Sectarianism id s of the devil.

Furthermore, what justy90 said to you.

You are completely and voluntarily ignorant of churches outside of your own. I would not be proud of this as you seem to revel in it. It doesn’t further your cause to just reiterate previous rhetoric that nobody listens to or buys into here any more. Again, this is a dead-beat thread. I’d be ashamed.:stretcher:

So true

You are so prejudiced with stereotyping and pure ignorance it stinks to high Heaven. You can’t honestly believe that you are bringing people to Christ with this garbage.

So true.

And more than 107 of Roman Catholic clergy are convicted Homosexual pedophiles. Need we go into each others closets here? I don’t think any of it is appropriate here.

Yes the theological term for such dredging is ‘Pharaseeism’