Apathy

[littleone]

It just doesn’t add up. God is laboring to speak to me at every present moment. I have labored very hard to hear God speak to me. Why can we never actually connect?

Here is something that might help.
1: What motivates you in life, is it your abilities, fun, sport, …
What ever it is then that is your God and that is what you will hear.
I will explain, what is a motivator? It is that something that motivates you to do what ever you love/want/that excites you over and above others.
For me my motivator is God I call Him Jesus / the Holy Spirit / the Father, yes and that, that motivates me is what I hear speaking to me because I listen for that voice that excites me gives me that feeling of fulfillment of love over and above anything else.
I am a human and live in this world, but as the bible tells us all, I am in the world NOT of the world.

I did not understand Jesus when told about Him, but I read what He did what He said,what He proved by way of giving until He had nothing left to give and then He asked His Father for more to give.

He gave His life for me, if you don’t understand then what Imean is that He taught all people through out all ages that the only way to live in unity and harmony is to - love one another the way He loves us. How does He love us
1: He taught us to love without wanting back, to give when you have two or more of.
2: He spoke to people in such a way that the unteachable could learn, those with much should share, it is those learned of the world that would find it hardest to learn the will of God. That heaven is not a place to be found in some distant faraway place but in our self. Therefore it is in mercy, in forgiving that we become close to God.

I hope this helps. But don’t fret, you are a child of God, therefore He loves you. Have patience with yourself, Jesus does.

Godbless

 

[Epistemes]

Most people in this thread have been trying to help me out with good feedback, and I sincerely appreciate their time and effort. I have responded back to each post honestly with my struggles and haven’t been hostile.

I do, however, get considerably annoyed by people who are self-righteous and love to come into situations like this and judge people. I have seen some recent topics you have created in which you have been discussing your deep spiritual struggles in life. If somebody were to tell you to “get over yourself” and imply that your too interested in self-gratification and you are too “me” oriented, you would probably also be annoyed.

Why, for instance, did you even feel you had to come in here and post a snide remark?

Christians who truly follow Christ’s example are the most enjoyable people to be around. On the other hand, there are many people who call themselves Christians but constantly judge other people having a holier-than-thou attitude. It’s these kinds of “Christians” that deter so many people away from Christianity.

The amount of presumption in your reply only reinforces my earlier opinion.

For instance, you presume that I would be annoyed if someone told me to get over myself due to my own spiritual struggle, but just last week someone did, in fact, tell me such and how did I respond? I thanked the person for their point-of-view rather than being insulted and snapping back.

If you’re interested in the “example of Christ,” and if you are as familiar with doctrinal Christianity as you say you are, then I’m sure you understand the principle of humility and all that it entails – which includes turning the other cheek when you’re criticized, even with a loving heart. When the disciples erred, Jesus didn’t hug them, pat them on the head, and say, “It’s alright” – no, Jesus understood true tough love.

Being told to “get over yourself” isn’t a snide remark. With the amount of presumption and sarcasm with which you’re approaching me and others who recognize this certain characteristic about your replies, it’s a nudge.

 

[Awake]

The amount of presumption in your reply only reinforces my earlier opinion.

For instance, you presume that I would be annoyed if someone told me to get over myself due to my own spiritual struggle, but just last week someone did, in fact, tell me such and how did I respond? I thanked the person for their point-of-view rather than being insulted and snapping back.

If you’re interested in the “example of Christ,” and if you are as familiar with doctrinal Christianity as you say you are, then I’m sure you understand the principle of humility and all that it entails – which includes turning the other cheek when you’re criticized, even with a loving heart. When the disciples erred, Jesus didn’t hug them, pat them on the head, and say, “It’s alright” – no, Jesus understood true tough love.

Being told to “get over yourself” isn’t a snide remark. With the amount of presumption and sarcasm with which you’re approaching me and others who recognize this certain characteristic about your replies, it’s a nudge.

Right; you’re judging me because you love me.

Now can you please just go away and take your self-righteousness elsewhere?

 

[Awake]

I think service to others, the way Jesus calls us to do, can open up a deeper relationship with Him. In my opinion, often more than just praying. When you pray and pray and nothing happens, maybe that’s not what you need to be doing.

Try to focus more on what Jesus is calling his disciples to DO, rather than what you think you should be hearing from Him.

Feeding the poor, being a Eucharistic minister to the sick and dying, anything where you are serving those in need could lead you to the feelings you are looking for.

Of course, if you already are doing these things, I probably just sound patronizing.

I have gone through long dry doubting periods, bored with Mass, angered by lack of communication, and honestly the only ways these things have resolved themselves in myself is when I have stopped trying to force it and just tried to *act * the faith instead of overthinking my lack of feelings.

Good luck and please don’t give up!

I guess I don’t really get a lot of chances to do service work like that. Maybe you’re right; I’ll try keeping my eye out for opportunities.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Most people in this thread have been trying to help me out with good feedback, and I sincerely appreciate their time and effort. I have responded back to each post honestly with my struggles and haven’t been hostile.

I do, however, get considerably annoyed by people who are self-righteous and love to come into situations like this and judge people. I have seen some recent topics you have created in which you have been discussing your deep spiritual struggles in life. If somebody were to tell you to “get over yourself” and imply that your too interested in self-gratification and you are too “me” oriented, you would probably also be annoyed.

Why, for instance, did you even feel you had to come in here and post a snide remark?

Christians who truly follow Christ’s example are the most enjoyable people to be around. On the other hand, there are many people who call themselves Christians but constantly judge other people having a holier-than-thou attitude. It’s these kinds of “Christians” that deter so many people away from Christianity.

You’re exactly right. My role models in Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular were the people that didn’t really say anything about their religion. My great grandmother, my great aunt, the Sisters that taught me in school, Priests, friends-they simply lived out the principles of the Gospel and I could see by their actions and their demeanor that they had something I wanted. The people who have lectured me and admonished me have done little to make me want what they have or feel that God is speaking through them.

As far as your particular problem, I really do understand where you are coming from and I have been there. Oddly enough, when I have reconnected with God it usually hasn’t been when I’ve been in front of the Blessed Sacrament or in a religious setting at all. It’s happened at off moments-standing on the beach, looking out at the ocean and getting a glimpse of the idea of eternity. Realizing that my father has taught me more about unconditional love in his example than I could have ever learned anywhere else. Watching my goddaughter grow up and feeling so blessed to have been a part of her life.

There is a lot to be said for seeing God’s hand in the smaller moments of our lives. It takes work at first, but I’ve found that I can do it much better now. I try to find the little blessings in my day and thank God for them-at first it didn’t feel like anything but after a while it has helped to establish a feeling of connectedness.

hang in there…

 

[Nordar]

Well, God already knows who I am. I think it would be more important that I can know who he is.

How could it possibly be more important for you to know God than him to know you?

 

[Nordar]

The amount of hostility with which you’re addressing any criticisms by “so-called Christians” tells me that something within you needs to change if you truly want any sort of relationship at all.

I pray such advice won’t be met by another snappy sarcasm, but if it is then case in point.

I totally agree, Awake I really thought you were truly seeking answers but your hostility and dismissal of any advice given you is truly a put off. Why the need for the sarcastic answers? everyone on here has tried to help you.

 

[Nordar]

Right; you’re judging me because you love me.

Now can you please just go away and take your self-righteousness elsewhere?

There was nothing self righteous in his post, you are the one who started the thread seeking advice. This person answered you with contructive criticism telling him to go away is very childish simply because you do not like the answer.

 

[theistgal]

It’s people like you that make me want to be an atheist.

For what it’s worth, I have gone through these same feelings countless times. There never seems to be a good reason for why they start - or for why they end.

In the past, I’ve given in to them and started living as an atheist. But that never seemed to work out for me, because God kept popping up everywhere I looked - in books, in conversations, in wondering about the beauty around me - and I could never just “get over Him”. So one fine morning I’d feel motivated to start praying again, and voila! just like that I’d be a theist again.

The only thing I can think of is this: If you watch the sunset and/or the sunrise every day of your life, you get used to them and start taking them for granted. But if you get sick and can’t go outside for a while, then the first time you see them again, they’re beautiful and wonderful all over again.

So maybe God is allowing this to happen to you - letting a cloud come between Him and you - so that when the cloud gets brushed away, you’ll see Him again and get all enthused and excited in your prayer life. It’s been known to happen - even to the greatest saints.

Don’t let other people who are (perhaps overly) secure in their faith make you feel like there’s something wrong with you. Your feelings are perfectly normal, and most everyone here either has, or will someday, share them. What matters is how you respond when you feel this way: do you chuck it all and join the Internet Infidels, or do you keep going to church and praying and go through the motions and just do the best you can to follow God, even though you can’t feel His presence anymore?

(Hint that might help: Mother Theresa had the same experience, and chose the latter.)

(And P.S. to those in this thread who are calling Awake “hostile” - losing your faith is scary. Being scared can cause you to be angry. Please show some patience, or you may well drive him to seek out an atheist chat board, where, believe me, he’ll be welcomed with open arms .)

 

[Nordar]

:

(And P.S. to those in this thread who are calling Awake “hostile” - losing your faith can be scary

. Being scared can cause you to be angry. Please show some patience, or you may well drive him to seek out an atheist chat board, where, believe me, he’ll be welcomed with open arms .)

The people who are sharing on this thread are only being truthfull, Saying that by trying to point out what could be the problem to the OP will drive him to an atheist board you are saying that no one should answer his post.

The reason some are calling him hostile is because he pretty much dismisses what others are trying to tell him by constantly saying “I have done that” or “I have tried that” . Offering contructive criticism is in no way underming what he is saying or are unsympathetic to what he is going through.

I have gone through times myself when my Faith has been poor if it were not for others giving me contructive criticism I would not have really looked at myself to truly see what the problem was. The problem was not that God was not answering me the problem was in myself.

 

[theistgal]

The people who are sharing on this thread are only being truthfull, Saying that by trying to point out what could be the problem to the OP will drive him to an atheist board you are saying that no one should answer his post.

I am telling you that, while it may not be your intention, it can happen, and I know because it happened to me. It may be hard to understand that, but for some people, all it takes is the wrong word at the wrong time. That’s why Scripture says that we will be responsible for every word that comes out of our mouth - and I would assume that means every word we post on the Internet, too!

The reason some are calling him hostile is because he pretty much dismisses what others are trying to tell him by constantly saying “I have done that” or “I have tried that” . Offering contructive criticism is in no way underming what he is saying or are unsympathetic to what he is going through.

I only saw a couple of people whose words could be interpreted as being hostile, but they were definitely not helping the situation. What one person thinks of as “tough love” may come across as just “tough turkey” online. We need to think very carefully before hitting that “post” key!

(And how do you know Awake did NOT do or try the things that have been suggested? It reminds me of another thread I’m in, where I’m repeatedly being pressured to read a particular book, even though I’ve repeatedly stated that I’ve already read it! )

I have gone through times myself when my Faith has been poor if it were not for others giving me contructive criticism I would not have really looked at myself to truly see what the problem was. The problem was not that God was not answering me the problem was in myself.

Fine - that’s you. That’s not everyone else’s experience. And once again, what you might think of as “constructive” criticism may, to a person in crisis mode, simply come across as “criticism”, period.

 

[theistgal]

And Awake - my apology for mistakenly calling you “Answer” in the last post! I’ve fixed it now!

(and if you’re still reading this thread, I hope you do find the “Answer” you’re looking for! )

 

[Nordar]

I am telling you that, while it may not be your intention, it can happen, and I know because it happened to me. It may be hard to understand that, but for some people, all it takes is the wrong word at the wrong time. That’s why Scripture says that we will be responsible for every word that comes out of our mouth - and I would assume that means every word we post on the Internet, too!

I only saw a couple of people whose words could be interpreted as being hostile, but they were definitely not helping the situation. What one person thinks of as “tough love” may come across as just “tough turkey” online. We need to think very carefully before hitting that “post” key!

(And how do you know Awake did NOT do or try the things that have been suggested? It reminds me of another thread I’m in, where I’m repeatedly being pressured to read a particular book, even though I’ve repeatedly stated that I’ve already read it! )

Fine - that’s you. That’s not everyone else’s experience. And once again, what you might think of as “constructive” criticism may, to a person in crisis mode, simply come across as “criticism”, period.

Whoa! you need to calm down!

 

[theistgal]

Whoa! you need to calm down!

You have just provided a perfect example of what I mean when I say - words can easily be misconstrued on the Internet. I’m sure you didn’t mean to sound so incredibly patronizing.

Nice work!

 

[Awake]

You’re exactly right. My role models in Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular were the people that didn’t really say anything about their religion. My great grandmother, my great aunt, the Sisters that taught me in school, Priests, friends-they simply lived out the principles of the Gospel and I could see by their actions and their demeanor that they had something I wanted. The people who have lectured me and admonished me have done little to make me want what they have or feel that God is speaking through them.

As far as your particular problem, I really do understand where you are coming from and I have been there. Oddly enough, when I have reconnected with God it usually hasn’t been when I’ve been in front of the Blessed Sacrament or in a religious setting at all. It’s happened at off moments-standing on the beach, looking out at the ocean and getting a glimpse of the idea of eternity. Realizing that my father has taught me more about unconditional love in his example than I could have ever learned anywhere else. Watching my goddaughter grow up and feeling so blessed to have been a part of her life.

There is a lot to be said for seeing God’s hand in the smaller moments of our lives. It takes work at first, but I’ve found that I can do it much better now. I try to find the little blessings in my day and thank God for them-at first it didn’t feel like anything but after a while it has helped to establish a feeling of connectedness.

hang in there…

Thanks for your feedback. I know what you mean because being in nature is the closest I’ve had to any sort of religious experience. I just can’t seem to see God in church, so I hope that some day I will find God in nature. (That’s not to say I’ll stop going to church or frequenting the sacraments, it’s just that I think that if I ever do find God, it will be through his creation and not through theology, philosophy, or apologetics.)

 

[Awake]

How could it possibly be more important for you to know God than him to know you?

What I’m saying is that if God is God, then of course he would know me. That doesn’t give me much consolation. I wish I could know him.

 

[Awake]

For what it’s worth, I have gone through these same feelings countless times. There never seems to be a good reason for why they start - or for why they end.

In the past, I’ve given in to them and started living as an atheist. But that never seemed to work out for me, because God kept popping up everywhere I looked - in books, in conversations, in wondering about the beauty around me - and I could never just “get over Him”. So one fine morning I’d feel motivated to start praying again, and voila! just like that I’d be a theist again.

The only thing I can think of is this: If you watch the sunset and/or the sunrise every day of your life, you get used to them and start taking them for granted. But if you get sick and can’t go outside for a while, then the first time you see them again, they’re beautiful and wonderful all over again.

So maybe God is allowing this to happen to you - letting a cloud come between Him and you - so that when the cloud gets brushed away, you’ll see Him again and get all enthused and excited in your prayer life. It’s been known to happen - even to the greatest saints.

Don’t let other people who are (perhaps overly) secure in their faith make you feel like there’s something wrong with you. Your feelings are perfectly normal, and most everyone here either has, or will someday, share them. What matters is how you respond when you feel this way: do you chuck it all and join the Internet Infidels, or do you keep going to church and praying and go through the motions and just do the best you can to follow God, even though you can’t feel His presence anymore?

Thank you for your feedback, theistgal. The thing is though that I’ve never really felt God’s presence. It’s not as though I’m sick, but more like I’m crippled. I’ve tried and tried, but I just can’t see God. I hear people talk about religious experiences, but I don’t know what that’s like. The only thing I’ve ever felt during mass or during prayer (other than boredom) was guilt.

I still go through the motions, (though admittedly less than I used to), but I’m really not sure how much longer I can do this. I can’t help but wonder why God would let somebody like myself who struggles with atheism but sincerely wants to know God, slip into a pattern like this without making himself known.

(Hint that might help: Mother Theresa had the same experience, and chose the latter.)

I wouldn’t really say that’s the same thing. Mother Theresa had religious experiences, and then had a long period without any. I haven’t had any religious experience.

(And P.S. to those in this thread who are calling Awake “hostile” - losing your faith is scary. Being scared can cause you to be angry. Please show some patience, or you may well drive him to seek out an atheist chat board, where, believe me, he’ll be welcomed with open arms .)

I’ve spent hours thinking about thinking and have read 1000’s of pages on the subject. One person’s comment on a forum is not going to drive me to atheism. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[Awake]

The people who are sharing on this thread are only being truthfull, Saying that by trying to point out what could be the problem to the OP will drive him to an atheist board you are saying that no one should answer his post.

The reason some are calling him hostile is because he pretty much dismisses what others are trying to tell him by constantly saying “I have done that” or “I have tried that”.

I don’t think that is being hostile. Somebody might complain that God doesn’t reveal himself to them, and the logical question would be to ask if they have taken the time to listen to him through prayer, mass, etc. If they haven’t, that might be why they feel God hasn’t revealed himself to them.

My situation is different in that I’ve tried to listen to God. I even came close to joining the seminary because I figured that that might be the only way I could actually come to know God. I don’t say that to brag or to be hostile, but to be more specific of my struggles.

 

[littleone]

I don’t think that is being hostile. Somebody might complain that God doesn’t reveal himself to them, and the logical question would be to ask if they have taken the time to listen to him through prayer, mass, etc. If they haven’t, that might be why they feel God hasn’t revealed himself to them.

My situation is different in that I’ve tried to listen to God.

Just to let you know that you are no different to others in that you might listen or try to but that is not the point. God’s ways are not ours or His timing, or place for you to hear Him.
I found that after an accident at 11yrs of age i knew that God had called me by giving my life back to me.
I heard a voice tell me to fill in a hole I had made at home and I knew that it was God.
I offered my life to Him in which ever form He desired. And yet it was not until 21yrs of age that I ended up getting married, five children and God reveled to me His giving me what I had asked for.
I told God that there was more to life than I was getting from mass I needed more much more and I prayed and it was not until 7 years latter that I found it in the Holy Spirit and once heard God speak to me plainly, as plain as you and I.
I asked Him questions and expected to hear Him speak and He did and still does.
The point is I never gave up and will not, but I don’t hear as much as before but in times of need or His desire i hear very clearly. I fell in love with Him and that is how and why I speak to Him.
It seems that it is the relationship first.

Godbless

 

[SianTeresa]

Awake,

However hard you are finding this, I sense that you just keep persevering. As someone who falls to pieces when I cease to “feel” God, I think your perseverence is admirable. Some people have criticised your responses, but the way you are responding to your trials is between you and God and it’s not for us to judge you.

I am pretty sure that there are others out there who feel the same way. I felt very alone in my feelings toward God for many years, until I found one or two people on the internet who I could share things with. Be assured that you are not alone. One thing which convinces me of the truth of Catholicism is that God calls people of all personalities from all walks of life, not just the very emotional/affective types.

But that aside, maybe you need to learn to forgive yourself for your apathy. You might find that the apathy is not distancing you from God, but rather that your weakness is drawing you closer to Him. In humility, recognise that you are nothing without Him. God bless you for your efforts so far.

If you’d asked me for recommendations for very “emotional” Catholics I could have given you a long list from personal experience. But, I’d like to venture to recommend a text that might help you, though I apologise if I have failed to understand your perspective. Try reading St. John of the Cross’ “Dark Night of the Soul”. I read this, and I have to admit I still have difficulty fully understanding it (which is why I think perhaps it would speak better to someone of an opposite temprament), but it seems to speak to those times when everything seems “dry”. I think it might help you to accept the trials you are experiencing. St. Teresa, in The Interior Castle, warned against striving after graces and consolations. It is SO hard, I acknowledge, but it is a good thing to accept this. Also, maybe some of the passages in the “Imitation of Christ” which refer to feeling deprived of the consolation of God might help you. You can find most of these books online if you don’t want to wait to buy them.

If this is of little help to you, I’m sorry. Be assured of my prayers, anyway.

Sian x