Apocalypse in the year 2239?

[Faith1960]

Exactly. We must be careful, though, to distinguish between:

1. honest speculators, who admit that there is a margin of error in their predictions, who do not hold to them obstinately, and who submit to the judgment of the Church or its approved ordinaries on such matters.
2. those “caught up” in a theory, who may well be sincere, but who are firmly convinced of their beliefs to a degree that can become spiritually unhealthy. A good example would be the way the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination was formed; it arose as a result of holding on to a mistaken calculation of this sort.
3. those who use such predictions in a manipulative or cultic sense, or to stir up resentment against a particular group of individuals or population.
4. snake-oil salesmen, who make loads of $$$$$$ off such idle speculations (or stories about them) and are probably laughing all the way to the bank.

Only (3) or (4) would really be considered liars in my opinion; (1) and (2) are probably sincere and zealous, if mistaken.

#1: how can they be honest speculators but submit to the Church? The Church doesn’t speculate on when the Apocalypse will occur.

 

[Crusaderbear]

But the church doesn’t expressly forbid speculation either…the church guides us down the right path, it does not force us down one specific one. There is some wiggle room!

 

[thistle]

I’ve been wondering about the Second Coming lately. It’s one of our more fantastic beliefs. Although I think it would be sad if humanity ended soon, because that would cut short our budding exploration of the known universe; Christ did say he is coming “soon.” And that was 2000 years ago.

A Jewish tradition is that the Messiah will come in the Hebrew year 6000, which would place the approximate date of the Apocalypse in 2239. No one knows the day nor hour… but maybe the year?

What do you think? Could the end of the world be in the next 200 years?

Why won’t people believe Jesus. Do they think he lied when he said in Matt 24:36:

"But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of Heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

 

[Neithan]

Why won’t people believe Jesus. Do they think he lied when he said in Matt 24:36:

"But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of Heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Of course; it’s possible there could be some hints here and there. Maybe the Jews are on to something with the Messianic Age. I guess we of little faith need something to suggest that we’re not waiting in vain, even if it won’t happen during our lifetime (although I agree that’s dangerous thinking, because it could relax our spiritual vigilance). If Jesus returns 10,000 years from now I find it almost impossible to reconcile that with his promise to return “soon.” Not to mention the difficulty in understanding what it means for him to return at all - how or what that will look like.

 

[RPRPsych]

#1: how can they be honest speculators but submit to the Church? The Church doesn’t speculate on when the Apocalypse will occur.

But the church doesn’t expressly forbid speculation either…the church guides us down the right path, it does not force us down one specific one. There is some wiggle room!

As long as it does not fall within what the Church proscribes (such as “chiliasm” or “millennarianism”) speculation is permitted, and many private revelations have touched upon this topic.

Faith1960: I was thinking of folks like Mark Mallett, who work within the above parameters and generally back up their claims with references to Scripture, Tradition and Papal teachings. That doesn’t mean I agree with him (I am in the “no one knows the day” camp, and find such speculation distracting), but I just thought I’d point out that not all those speculating on the end times are necessarily clowns or charlatans.

 

[Faith1960]

Why won’t people believe Jesus. Do they think he lied when he said in Matt 24:36:

"But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of Heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

 

[mattp0625]

I’ve been wondering about the Second Coming lately. It’s one of our more fantastic beliefs. Although I think it would be sad if humanity ended soon, because that would cut short our budding exploration of the known universe; Christ did say he is coming “soon.” And that was 2000 years ago.

A Jewish tradition is that the Messiah will come in the Hebrew year 6000, which would place the approximate date of the Apocalypse in 2239. No one knows the day nor hour… but maybe the year?

What do you think? Could the end of the world be in the next 200 years?

Hello,

I understand and agree it is interesting to think about the nature and timing of the second coming, but as others pointed out, Jesus said we cannot know the time.

End time predictions have been made for centuries. Certain reformers of the 16th century thought they were in an end times struggle. Certain denominations tried predicting in the 19th century. Recently, there were books predicting the blood moon. None of this came to pass.

 

[mikekle]

Hello,

I understand and agree it is interesting to think about the nature and timing of the second coming, but as others pointed out, Jesus said we cannot know the time.

He said no one but God himself can know the day and hour, which is correct, but I do believe he gave us specific signs to watch for, so we would recognize when the general time is getting close. Thessalonians gives pretty detailed descriptions of how those general times are going to be…if we were not to have some idea of when it was getting close, why would he have even given these things to watch for?

Daniel is also pretty descriptive, how people would not be able to understand some of this, until they were actually living in the times, that is accurate imo.(increase in knowledge/ internet, travel to and fro, etc), people living in past times would not understand what the internet was if you tried to describe it to them, same thing with jet airplanes, they would have called these things ‘magic’ or works of the devil.

I believe it will happen within the next 100 years, if you look back 100 yrs ago, and compare it to today, technology has progressed like wild fire, its likely to keep going at the same rate, at some point, eventually mankind is going to colonize other planets or space in general, I think Jesus will return before man gets to that technological level.

 

[mattp0625]

He said no one but God himself can know the day and hour, which is correct, but I do believe he gave us specific signs to watch for, so we would recognize when the general time is getting close. Thessalonians gives pretty detailed descriptions of how those general times are going to be…if we were not to have some idea of when it was getting close, why would he have even given these things to watch for?

Daniel is also pretty descriptive, how people would not be able to understand some of this, until they were actually living in the times, that is accurate imo.(increase in knowledge/ internet, travel to and fro, etc), people living in past times would not understand what the internet was if you tried to describe it to them, same thing with jet airplanes, they would have called these things ‘magic’ or works of the devil.

I believe it will happen within the next 100 years, if you look back 100 yrs ago, and compare it to today, technology has progressed like wild fire, its likely to keep going at the same rate, at some point, eventually mankind is going to colonize other planets or space in general, I think Jesus will return before man gets to that technological level.

I understand your point about descriptions, but scripture also says the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, and like Noah’s flood.

 

[Crusaderbear]

So busy watching the horizon, one desn’t see the rattlesnake at ones feet…

 

[MaryBernard]

I’ve been wondering about the Second Coming lately. It’s one of our more fantastic beliefs. Although I think it would be sad if humanity ended soon, because that would cut short our budding exploration of the known universe; Christ did say he is coming “soon.” And that was 2000 years ago.

A Jewish tradition is that the Messiah will come in the Hebrew year 6000, which would place the approximate date of the Apocalypse in 2239. No one knows the day nor hour… but maybe the year?

What do you think? Could the end of the world be in the next 200 years?

We have no way of knowing. Jesus told us he doesn’t even know when it will happen, so I don’t think speculating about when is going to do us any good. That’s why we are told to be prepared for His coming. Either way the world will end for us in our lifetime at the moment of our death.

Many claim Jesus gave signs of his coming, but that’s not completely accurate. He did give explicit signs that would be seen within the generation he was talking to. He specifically says “this generation,” so at that point He’s not talking about an event 2000+ yrs. down the road.He was talking about His coming in judgment against Israel for all their sins and the ultimate one of slaying their Messiah. That is what Daniel 12, the Olivet Discourse and some of Revelation (I can’t recall the exact chapters at the moment.) are all about; it’s the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. This is what the majority of the ECF’s taught. Check Lapide’s commentary on Matthew and also David Currie’s books on the matter for a better explanation than I can give.

 

[Gertabelle]

He said no one but God himself can know the day and hour, which is correct, but I do believe he gave us specific signs to watch for, so we would recognize when the general time is getting close. Thessalonians gives pretty detailed descriptions of how those general times are going to be…if we were not to have some idea of when it was getting close, why would he have even given these things to watch for?

Daniel is also pretty descriptive, how people would not be able to understand some of this, until they were actually living in the times, that is accurate imo.(increase in knowledge/ internet, travel to and fro, etc), people living in past times would not understand what the internet was if you tried to describe it to them, same thing with jet airplanes, they would have called these things ‘magic’ or works of the devil.

So if God is giving us signs that we are in the end times, what then are we to do with that information?

In 1983, I had a teacher at my Catholic high school who was convinced that Jesus’ return was imminent. He even encouraged me to write a term paper on the signs of the times and their relationship with scripture. This was at the height of the Cold War, and every day we wondered if it would be the day our leaders launched he missiles.

I found some wonderful resources for my term paper – one of them written by a well-respected protestant minister who said that based the creation of the state of Israel, Jesus’ return could be no later than the end of 1981.

Um, or not…

This teacher told me not to worry about that little error. He was still absolutely certain the Rapture and Tribulation were imminent.

Because of that, he and his wife had chosen not to have children. They rented their home instead of buying, and they leased their car – at a time when car leasing was virtually unknown.

And here we are 33 years later…

That experience had a profound impact on me, I guess.

 

[Crusaderbear]

The reasons the signs of the endtimes keep recurring is that we humans keep repeating the same mistakes over and over! Someday, someone will say, “see, I told ya!” And will finally be right…hopefully not for a long time!

 

[mikekle]

So if God is giving us signs that we are in the end times, what then are we to do with that information?

Well, really I think we should use this to show others the bible IS accurate and correct…for a book that was written over 2000 yrs ago, to be so accurate about the times we live in today, speaks volumes imo, and it should to other people as well.

Its also important to recognize these things to ensure we do not allow ourselves to fall for the coming deceptions.

 

[mikekle]

I understand your point about descriptions, but scripture also says the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night, and like Noah’s flood.

It also says it will happen at a time no one expects…so is this referring to all people, the church, ?

 

[mattp0625]

It also says it will happen at a time no one expects…so is this referring to all people, the church, ?

Yes, I think this means no one will know- including everyone in the church and outside the church.

Is this what you meant to ask?

 

[Usagi]

So if God is giving us signs that we are in the end times, what then are we to do with that information?

In 1983, I had a teacher at my Catholic high school who was convinced that Jesus’ return was imminent.

I had a fellow student like that in the late 80s. He was the leader of our morning Christian get-together geoup. He wasn’t too concerned with life after high school because he was sure the Lord would return very soon. I hope he came up with a contingency plan.

That’s one reason I continue to emphasize that every age looks like it fulfills the signs to the people living in it.

 

[LethalMouse]

He said no one can know the day or hour, that is correct, but people forget that he gave very detailed signs and warnings for us to be on the watch for…if you look at the list of these, compared to history and our modern times, there has never been a time when so many are happening at one time, or have happened already.

With all the problems going on the world right now, I would not be surprised to see the sudden appearance of one person that apparently seems to have all the solutions to these things…plus keep in mind, Jesus said MOST will not be able to recognize this person for who they are truly are…I think that is VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

I think it will happen way sooner than 2239

NO. no, and no by percentages…

WE HAVE MEDIA COVERAGE

Not more stuff! We just know of it.

We also changed rules

Jerry Lee Lewis, Edgar Allen Poe

though at the time it started to be mildly scorned they married MINOR LOW TEENAGE cousins… and we know this because they were particularly famous etc…

It was legal and okay at the time. now it is not.

so “Why is this happening now?”

Is actually it was always happening it either A. was not illegal

or B. we didn’t know if some guy in Montana did it because we would NEVER BE TOLD.

If this was the year 200 and some guy in china stabbed kids in a school (which we heard about in America in modern times) YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW.

People if a tree falls in a forest it does still make a sound, stop thinking it did not.

 

[Gertabelle]

Well, really I think we should use this to show others the bible IS accurate and correct…for a book that was written over 2000 yrs ago, to be so accurate about the times we live in today, speaks volumes imo, and it should to other people as well.

The bold part is where I have a problem.

What if your interpretations of the scriptures and the times are wrong? Don’t you think that puts the Bible and Christianity in a bad light for non-believers?

Instead of proving the Bible is accurate, predicting the end of times makes the Bible look like a bunch of nonsense, and Christians look like a bunch of ignorant fanatics.

Consider the media frenzy back in 2011 when Harold Camping’s prediction of the Rapture and the end of the world did not come to pass. His group had put up thousands of billboards around the country announcing the end. He had solicited and received millions of dollars in donations. People quit their jobs, sold their homes – and gave Camping the profits – and then the world went spinning on.

NY Times reports on Harold Camping’s death and his failed predictions:
nytimes.com/2013

*"The end, he said, would come on May 21, 2011. The date was based on a complex formula involving the biblical flood survived by Noah in what Mr. Camping said was 4,990 B.C., a 7,000-year clock that began ticking from that moment, and the subtraction of one year because of a difference in the Old Testament and New Testament calendars.

Mr. Camping, a thin man with a craggy face and a resonant baritone radio voice, relentlessly promoted the date and its fateful consequences for more than two years on his listener-supported network, on 5,000 billboards and in countless books and pamphlets translated into 75 languages. To pay for it all, he raised tens of millions of dollars from listeners.

As the day closed in, there was an avalanche of publicity: newspaper and magazine articles, television forums and nonstop chatter on the Internet. Opinions ran from portentous credulity to merry mockery, with lots of clownish commentary and anguished hand-wringing. Mr. Camping estimated that seven billion would die, and followers spoke of settling their affairs and spending their final days with loved ones.
*

And from an ABC news blog:
abcnews.go.com/blogs

Here’s what one of his followers had to say to him on his radio program when his prediction did not come to pass:
*
“You’re really pathetic, you know? I wasted all my money because of you. I was putting all my money and my hopes on you… I wish I could see you face to face, I would smack you. Mr. Camping, you always say a lot of (redacted) I lost all my money because of you, you (redacted),” a caller said, according to The Christian Post.*

It sounds to me like this sort of speculation pushes people AWAY from the Bible and Christianity, rather than proving its veracity. :sad_yes:

 

[mikekle]

Yes, I think this means no one will know- including everyone in the church and outside the church.

Is this what you meant to ask?

Yes it is what I meant, but logically, how can this be accurate? If things start happening and we can ‘go down the biblical endtimes checklist’ and everything he warned of, either has happened or is happening, especially the very detailed descriptions of how the antichrist will reign, how he will die, and what will happen afterwards…knowing all this, how is it possible it will happen when no one expects it?

Biblically, in reality, christians should become aware of where we are on the timeline, when the AC claims to be the messiah, but heck, the bible even says most people will not even recognize the AC for who he truly is…that is something else that makes no logical sense, when the bible gives very detailed data about what he will do, how long he will reign, other things happening at the same time…it seems like this should be very easy to spot once its happening, I mean, how many ‘false prophets’ do we see year to year that can call fire down from heaven, and do other supernatural things…none that I can recall, so common sense would tell me, the first person who is doing these things is more than likely the AC…right?