Apocalypse in the year 2239?

[mikekle]

The bold part is where I have a problem.

What if your interpretations of the scriptures and the times are wrong? Don’t you think that puts the Bible and Christianity in a bad light for non-believers?

Instead of proving the Bible is accurate, predicting the end of times makes the Bible look like a bunch of nonsense, and Christians look like a bunch of ignorant fanatics.

Consider the media frenzy back in 2011 when Harold Camping’s prediction of the Rapture and the end of the world did not come to pass. His group had put up thousands of billboards around the country announcing the end. He had solicited and received millions of dollars in donations. People quit their jobs, sold their homes – and gave Camping the profits – and then the world went spinning on.

NY Times reports on Harold Camping’s death and his failed predictions:
nytimes.com/2013

*"The end, he said, would come on May 21, 2011. The date was based on a complex formula involving the biblical flood survived by Noah in what Mr. Camping said was 4,990 B.C., a 7,000-year clock that began ticking from that moment, and the subtraction of one year because of a difference in the Old Testament and New Testament calendars.

Mr. Camping, a thin man with a craggy face and a resonant baritone radio voice, relentlessly promoted the date and its fateful consequences for more than two years on his listener-supported network, on 5,000 billboards and in countless books and pamphlets translated into 75 languages. To pay for it all, he raised tens of millions of dollars from listeners.*

As the day closed in, there was an avalanche of publicity: newspaper and magazine articles, television forums and nonstop chatter on the Internet. Opinions ran from portentous credulity to merry mockery, with lots of clownish commentary and anguished hand-wringing. Mr. Camping estimated that seven billion would die, and followers spoke of settling their affairs and spending their final days with loved ones.

And from an ABC news blog:
abcnews.go.com/blogs

Here’s what one of his followers had to say to him on his radio program when his prediction did not come to pass:
*
“You’re really pathetic, you know? I wasted all my money because of you. I was putting all my money and my hopes on you… I wish I could see you face to face, I would smack you. Mr. Camping, you always say a lot of (redacted) I lost all my money because of you, you (redacted),” a caller said, according to The Christian Post.*

It sounds to me like this sort of speculation pushes people AWAY from the Bible and Christianity, rather than proving its veracity. :sad_yes:

Well, anyone who believed Camping, that was their own fault, any one of them could have looked around and recognized the antichrist had not even come on the ‘world scene’ yet, so they should have known better, especially if they knew their bible.

End times events are a bit like dominoes, certain things must happen before other things can happen, when these things start happening and they line up with what the bible says, in reality, most of us should know roughly when the day is coming about 3.5 years beforehand, but if it comes at a time no one sees coming, then either we were wrong about end times scripture or have misinterpreted the verses…??

 

[mattp0625]

Yes it is what I meant, but logically, how can this be accurate? If things start happening and we can ‘go down the biblical endtimes checklist’ and everything he warned of, either has happened or is happening, especially the very detailed descriptions of how the antichrist will reign, how he will die, and what will happen afterwards…knowing all this, how is it possible it will happen when no one expects it?

Biblically, in reality, christians should become aware of where we are on the timeline, when the AC claims to be the messiah, but heck, the bible even says most people will not even recognize the AC for who he truly is…that is something else that makes no logical sense, when the bible gives very detailed data about what he will do, how long he will reign, other things happening at the same time…it seems like this should be very easy to spot once its happening, I mean, how many ‘false prophets’ do we see year to year that can call fire down from heaven, and do other supernatural things…none that I can recall, so common sense would tell me, the first person who is doing these things is more than likely the AC…right?

I am guessing it will happen so suddenly that you won’t need signs

 

[Gertabelle]

Well, anyone who believed Camping, that was their own fault, any one of them could have looked around and recognized the antichrist had not even come on the ‘world scene’ yet, so they should have known better, especially if they knew their bible.

Their own fault? Camping had scripture to back up every single one of his predictions. He quoted from Daniel, Revelation, the letters of Paul, the Gospels, and on and on. He connected the scriptures with past events and current events…just like you suggest doing.

He was wrong. What makes you sure your interpretations are any better than his?

End times events are a bit like dominoes, certain things must happen before other things can happen, when these things start happening and they line up with what the bible says, in reality, most of us should know roughly when the day is coming about 3.5 years beforehand, but if it comes at a time no one sees coming, then either we were wrong about end times scripture or have misinterpreted the verses…??

And just what are those things? And who says which ones come first? Is it your interpretation? Is it Pastor Joe from Some Church? Is it the lady at the organ, or the businessman in the pew?

Using end-time predictions to draw people to Christ – by proving the Bible is true – seems to me to be both arrogant and precarious. I’m sorry, but I just think it’s better to show them the past than try to predict the future.

God bless you!

 

[steve_b]

I’ve been wondering about the Second Coming lately. It’s one of our more fantastic beliefs. Although I think it would be sad if humanity ended soon, because that would cut short our budding exploration of the known universe; Christ did say he is coming “soon.” And that was 2000 years ago.

A Jewish tradition is that the Messiah will come in the Hebrew year 6000, which would place the approximate date of the Apocalypse in 2239. No one knows the day nor hour… but maybe the year?

What do you think? Could the end of the world be in the next 200 years?

I read the following at a dinner table a few months ago. My question to those around the table, was, “when do you think this was written”?

in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth

One person said, that sounds like it was written yesterday.

I said St Paul wrote that to Timothy, a bishop, 2000 years ago. And I said it won’t surprise me if 2000 years from now someone will be reading the same passage to people because the same reality will be then, as well.

Seems things don’t change much. But for 1000’s of people every minute of every day, it is the end of the world for THEM. Their last day took place for THEM. And that happens every minute of every day till the end of the world occurs. Every minute of every day people are going to heaven or hell. And Jesus who judges the living and the dead, gives us the ratio of that reality in advance
**
**
Mt 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few

meaning if just a few make it to heaven, the rest go to perdition … and that doesn’t mean purgatory but hell

 

[mikekle]

Their own fault? Camping had scripture to back up every single one of his predictions. He quoted from Daniel, Revelation, the letters of Paul, the Gospels, and on and on. He connected the scriptures with past events and current events…just like you suggest doing.

He was wrong. What makes you sure your interpretations are any better than his?

Well, like I said above, the antichrist had not even come yet when Camping predicted all this, not sure why he neglected to take all that into consideration.

 

[mikekle]

I read the following at a dinner table a few months ago. My question to those around the table, was, “when do you think this was written”?

in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth

One person said, that sounds like it was written yesterday.

I said St Paul wrote that to Timothy, a bishop, 2000 years ago. And I said it won’t surprise me if 2000 years from now someone will be reading the same passage to people because the same reality will be then, as well.

Seems things don’t change much. But for 1000’s of people every minute of every day, it is the end of the world for THEM. Their last day took place for THEM. And that happens every minute of every day till the end of the world occurs. Every minute of every day people are going to heaven or hell. And Jesus who judges the living and the dead, gives us the ratio of that reality in advance
**
**
Mt 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few

meaning if just a few make it to heaven, the rest go to perdition … and that doesn’t mean purgatory but hell

You are right about the ‘end’ coming from many people each day, as people die all over the world every day, but the second coming, the real ‘end of the world’, that will impact even those who have already died, it will be a big event in this realm and the spiritual realm, I mean, everyone is suddenly going to be back on earth in glorified bodies, getting ready for the battle at Megido!

 

[steve_b]

You are right about the ‘end’ coming from many people each day, as people die all over the world every day, but the second coming, the real ‘end of the world’, that will impact even those who have already died,

I would add to my previous post, WHEN a person dies, they don’t just go to the ground waiting for the 2nd coming. The body goes to the ground, but the soul, which is immortal, is judged immediately and rewards or punishment begin immediately. The soul has memory intellect and will fully functional … forever! There is no such thing as soul sleep. If the 2nd coming doesn’t happen for a billion years from now, souls in the meantime have already been judged, and are either in heaven purgatory or hell understanding completely where they are.

The last judgement doesn’t change the particular judgement, except that the body in the end, is now reunited with the soul…forever

Re: 2nd coming (paraphrased and condensed from the following links)

• everyone who has ever lived and died in the flesh, the body is raised. Their soul when the body died, was judged immediately and is either in heaven, purgatory (heading for heaven) , or hell…Once created by God, the soul lives forever, It can’t die. At the resurrection of the dead, the resurrected body will not die either. That resurrected body is reunited to the soul, and that means souls who have been in hell all that time, also get their resurrected bodies
• therefore, souls know at that moment of the particular judgement where they will spend all eternity. If one dies and is judged for heaven they go immediately to heaven. If it’s purgatory, then the soul goes to purgatory immediately, but heaven is their ultimate destination. If one is judged for hell they go to hell immediately. They don’t sit around waiting for the 2nd coming.
• anyone alive at the 2nd coming is likewise judged on their condition before God
• At the end, all bodies are rejoined with their souls. Now everyone is complete again body and soul, whether in heaven or hell.
• At the end, Purgatory ceases to exist because there are no more people being born, no more people to die, no more people to be purified.

[Soul (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm)

[Judgment, Last (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08552a.htm)

Judgment, Particular

[Purgatory (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm)

[Heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm)

[Hell (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm)

Thus the last 4 things, death judgement heaven or hell

 

[thistle]

You are right about the ‘end’ coming from many people each day, as people die all over the world every day, but the second coming, the real ‘end of the world’, that will impact even those who have already died, it will be a big event in this realm and the spiritual realm, I mean, everyone is suddenly going to be back on earth in glorified bodies, getting ready for the battle at Megido!

It does not impact those who have died. As steve b has said and he quoted the Church teachings, once you die you are immediately judged (The Particular Judgement) and are immediately damned (to Hell) if you die in a state of mortal sin or are immediately saved if you die in a state of grace (either Purgatory first then Heaven or straight to Heaven).
The Second Coming (Final Judgement) does not change that. Those in Hell remain there forever. Those who are saved remain saved.

 

[JosephHope]

Well this thread did diminish my anxiety attack caused by a similar thread less than an hour earlier, but why the majority of Christian sites are like this?
Now a trending topic us that the end could be as early as this year since after the year of the Mercy comes the judgment coupled with some prophecies about Fatima and other things, why do people do this?
Obviously, it didn’t take with you but such topics would mess up someone who has some psychological issues, I think that the Vatican should have a clear and public position about these speculations.

 

[Mintaka]

The Vatican does have a clear public position on all this. It’s the same one given to us by the Master: “You will not know the day or the hour.” In fact, “only the Father knows.”

Also, “if anyone comes teaching another Gospel, even an angel from heaven,” you should ignore it.

If it doesn’t come with an imprimatur on it, take it with a grain of salt.

If it doesn’t come from the official info about an approved apparition, take it with a couple saltshakers of salt.

And if it’s not part of official Church teaching, you can ignore it as much as you want, although of course we are always interested in “the good, the true, and the beautiful.”

 

[JosephHope]

The Vatican does have a clear public position on all this. It’s the same one given to us by the Master: “You will not know the day or the hour.” In fact, “only the Father knows.”

Also, “if anyone comes teaching another Gospel, even an angel from heaven,” you should ignore it.

If it doesn’t come with an imprimatur on it, take it with a grain of salt.

If it doesn’t come from the official info about an approved apparition, take it with a couple saltshakers of salt.

And if it’s not part of official Church teaching, you can ignore it as much as you want, although of course we are always interested in “the good, the true, and the beautiful.”

But if you are a sinner living in fear, anxiety, illness and depression, anything will make you lose your mind.

 

[steve_b]

But if you are a sinner living in fear, anxiety, illness and depression, anything will make you lose your mind.

If one is this, and knows this, they can repent, go to sacramental confession, and change their trajectory. They don’t have to stay in their current condition…right? It’s better than losing one’s soul …agreed?

 

[mikekle]

The Vatican does have a clear public position on all this. It’s the same one given to us by the Master: “You will not know the day or the hour.” In fact, “only the Father knows.”

Also, “if anyone comes teaching another Gospel, even an angel from heaven,” you should ignore it.

If it doesn’t come with an imprimatur on it, take it with a grain of salt.

If it doesn’t come from the official info about an approved apparition, take it with a couple saltshakers of salt.

And if it’s not part of official Church teaching, you can ignore it as much as you want, although of course we are always interested in “the good, the true, and the beautiful.”

Yes, but the Vatican has a group that ‘keeps an eye’ on this kind of stuff, they know what to look for. I remember reading about them back when they got involved in that telescope (L.U.C.I.F.E.R.) some years back…I believe it was G. Cosmangalo (spelling?) who gave some of this information, that they were indeed looking for certain things in certain places, in regards to end times/ Second coming, etc. He mentioned the groups name but its been so long, cant recall, I think it was something like Eschiatol, something with an ‘E’.

 

[thistle]

Yes, but the Vatican has a group that ‘keeps an eye’ on this kind of stuff, they know what to look for. I remember reading about them back when they got involved in that telescope (L.U.C.I.F.E.R.) some years back…I believe it was G. Cosmangalo (spelling?) who gave some of this information, that they were indeed looking for certain things in certain places, in regards to end times/ Second coming, etc. He mentioned the groups name but its been so long, cant recall, I think it was something like Eschiatol, something with an ‘E’.

Only in the movies!!

 

[IWantGod]

I’ve been wondering about the Second Coming lately. It’s one of our more fantastic beliefs. Although I think it would be sad if humanity ended soon, because that would cut short our budding exploration of the known universe; Christ did say he is coming “soon.” And that was 2000 years ago.

A Jewish tradition is that the Messiah will come in the Hebrew year 6000, which would place the approximate date of the Apocalypse in 2239. No one knows the day nor hour… but maybe the year?

What do you think? Could the end of the world be in the next 200 years?

Please God, bring this show to an end, i can’t take it anymore.

 

[marypiopadre]

who knows?