Apocalypto Now: Abortion and Human Sacrifice in the Americas

[Bennie_P]

I came across this article while doing research on feminism, but thought this connection of how it was before Christianity came to America and how it seems to circled right back to pre-Columbian world. I grew up always fancinated about Native American culture, There was that ‘story’ of how our family was part Native American dating back to the 18 century and while working on our family tree I have been able to trace my family roots, on both sides of my family to the 1680’s-90’s Virginia.
I have always looked at Native Americans as a noble people victimized by conquesting Christians, which they were victims, but lately I have been taking a more serious and different look at how things were here before Europeans came and it is stories like this that trouble me and blemish this “noble savage” view of pre-Colombian America and how romanticizing that world has brought us to the culture of death we now live in.

Apocalypto Now: Abortion and Human Sacrifice in the Americas
culturewars.com/2007/Apocalypto.htm

The modern American equivalent to Aztec and Mayan human sacrifice is, of course, abortion. Mel Gibson, the visceral Catholic and father of seven children, is, of course, viscerally opposed to abortion, as were the majority of Americans until the Jews like Bernard Nathanson (who later repented) began their campaigns (campaigns I have described in these pages, e.g., CW, June 2006) to get abortion legalized in New York and California. Other people have noticed the connection between abortion in the United States and human sacrifice in meso-America. I am one of those other people, at least that’s how I came across to myself after reading an article I wrote in 1984 comparing the Aztecs and the Democratic Party, both of whom were supportive of sodomy and human sacrifice. In an article entitled “Religion and Politics American-Style,” which appeared in the December 1984 issue of Fidelity, I claimed that “Sodomy and human sacrifice were integral parts of public policy in America before the arrival of Christianity. The devil ruled America with what must have seemed like an unshakable grasp. It’s a tribute to the devil’s tenacity that he has re-extended his grip after close to 500 years to include the majority party of the most powerful country in this hemisphere.”

Is the Culture of Death the result of our romancing everything but Christ?

 

[Kaninchen]

Is the Culture of Death the result of our romancing everything but Christ?

I thought E. Michael Jones was of the opinion that everything but everything naughty was all part of the Great Jewish World Conspiracy™?

 

[KarenNC]

The modern American equivalent to Aztec and Mayan human sacrifice is, of course, abortion.

I have never yet heard a single solitary story from either side of the controversy of a woman who dedicated her abortion to any Deity. Perhaps such exists, but I have not heard of it, and, if it did, I would be absolutely shocked if it were more than a few unusual incidents. Without further evidence, I see no reason to equate abortion with human sacrifice just because someone dies, any more than saying that everyone eating a doughnut is participating in the Eucharist because something is consumed.

after reading an article I wrote in 1984 comparing the Aztecs and the Democratic Party, both of whom were supportive of sodomy and human sacrifice. In an article entitled “Religion and Politics American-Style,” which appeared in the December 1984 issue of Fidelity, I claimed that “Sodomy and human sacrifice were integral parts of public policy in America before the arrival of Christianity. The devil ruled America with what must have seemed like an unshakable grasp.

I was not aware of same sex relationships being supported by the Aztecs—would like to see some scholarly sources on that. Also, to describe something that may have been attributable to the Aztecs as being “integral parts of public policy in America before the arrival of Christianity” makes no sense whatsoever.

1. there was no one “public policy” on the continent of North America any more (and much less) than there is now. There was never a pan-North American Indian culture or religion. It was a patchwork of different tribes with different cultures, different religions, different sets of ethics, governmental structures and practices. The “Native American spirituality” myth of a single earth-honoring, Great Spirit-worshipping Indian religion spanning all tribes is no more founded in what we know of historical reality than that of the pan-European peaceful matriarchal Goddess worshipping society that some still claim existed in Neolithic times. They are both relics of inadequate scholarship. Yes, those different tribes had strong religions and spiritualties, but note the plural. They differed, sometimes very widely, from each other in form, focus, practice, etc.
2. the area controlled by the Aztecs and Mayans was located in what is now Mexico and Central America, not in the area covered by the United States, so if one is going to claim that Aztec and Mayan policy held sway in any modern nation, it would be in Mexico, not the US. archaeology.about.com/od/aztecarchaeology/a/aztec_sg.htm

I have always looked at Native Americans as a noble people victimized by conquesting Christians, which they were victims, but lately I have been taking a more serious and different look at how things were here before Europeans came and it is stories like this that trouble me and blemish this “noble savage” view of pre-Colombian America and how romanticizing that world has brought us to the culture of death we now live in.

Myths alone about any people or time are not useful in understanding what we can of the realities of the lives those people lead and the fact that their cultures were just as complex as our own. They had wars and peace and barbarity and civilized behavior all mixed together, just as we do. The cultural mores may vary but people are people are people, and human nature has not changed, being capable of both great good and great harm. Romanticizing the past, whether our own or another’s, and then substituting that romantic view for what we know of the historical reality is counterproductive.

This is not to say that there is not value in looking at stories in terms of their mythic content and deeper meaning–it can be an important tool to understanding. Looking at the stories that one culture (in this case, European) tells about another culture (in this case, Native American tribes) actually gives a lot more insight into the cultural values of the one telling the story than than the one the story is about.

The “noble savage” myth is just that, a myth and not a description of reality. The Native Americans were not unfailingly noble and virtuous and the Europeans were not unfailingly evil and cruel. Founding one’s arguments on something other than the most accurate knowledge of the reality as possible puts one on shaky ground.

 

[Bennie_P]

I thought E. Michael Jones was of the opinion that everything but everything naughty was all part of the Great Jewish World Conspiracy™?

Who holds the trade mark rights on Great Jewish World Conspiracy™?

I really don’t know too much about E. Michael Jones, and if he holds that opinion, well it doesn’t have anything to do with the subject of the thread. For you may I re-state the question; “Is the Culture of Death a result of us romancing everything other then the commandments of the God of Abraham?”

And when he was now old, his heart was turned away by women to follow strange gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David, his father. But Solomon worshipped Astarthe, the goddess of the Sidonians, and Moloch, the idol of the Ammonites. And Solomon did that which was not pleasing before the Lord, and did not fully follow the Lord, as David, his father. Then Solomon built a temple for Chamos, the idol of Moab, on the hill that is over against Jerusalem, and for Moloch, the idol of the children of Ammon. And he did in this manner for all his wives that were strangers, who burnt incense, and offered sacrifice to their gods.1King 11:4 -8

 

[Bennie_P]

The modern American equivalent to Aztec and Mayan human sacrifice is, of course, abortion.

I have never yet heard a single solitary story from either side of the controversy of a woman who dedicated her abortion to any Deity. Perhaps such exists, but I have not heard of it, and, if it did, I would be absolutely shocked if it were more than a few unusual incidents. Without further evidence, I see no reason to equate abortion with human sacrifice just because someone dies, any more than saying that everyone eating a doughnut is participating in the Eucharist because something is consumed.

Actually abortion is a form of human sacrifce to the cult of “self” and cult of “radical feminism.” Either way it’s horror goes beyond anything the Azetic and Mayan culture practice. At least in thier view the making of sacrifice was for the betterment of society as a whole(though a wrong and evil action), where abortion is self-centered at the least and/or for the “betterment” for only one part of society - that is the political agenda of the radical feminist, for surely is not for better of the women who choices abortion. or her child.

the area controlled by the Aztecs and Mayans was located in what is now Mexico and Central America, not in the area covered by the United States, so if one is going to claim that Aztec and Mayan policy held sway in any modern nation, it would be in Mexico, not the US.

You’r reading way too much into the question making claims from claims that haven’t been asked by my question. The story was just an illustration and not meant to be a definitive study on pre-columbian culture. Otherwise you are just muddying the water in lake. As you usually do

 

[Kaninchen]

Is the Culture of Death a result of us romancing everything other then the commandments of the God of Abraham?

I believe that the ‘Culture of Death™’ is ©Roman Catholic Church - apparently, it’s a term used to signify anything or anybody currently regarded as a ‘bad thing’ but, not being a member of the organization, it’s not a concept to which I pay much attention.

 

[Bennie_P]

The modern American equivalent to Aztec and Mayan human sacrifice is, of course, abortion.

I have never yet heard a single solitary story from either side of the controversy of a woman who dedicated her abortion to any Deity. Perhaps such exists, but I have not heard of it, and, if it did, I would be absolutely shocked if it were more than a few unusual incidents. Without further evidence, I see no reason to equate abortion with human sacrifice just because someone dies, any more than saying that everyone eating a doughnut is participating in the Eucharist because something is consumed.

.

Such a sheltered life you live. wish I could be so insulated.

In his upcoming book on exorcism, Euteneuer writes, "The modern abortion industry offers ritual blood sacrifice to the ancient abortion demon. It is in every way a demonic religion.

• It has its sacred dogma (“choice”),
• its ruling hierarchy (Planned Parenthood),
• its theologians (feminist ideologues),
• its sacrificing priesthood (abortionists),
• its temples (abortion mills),
• altars (surgical tables),
• ritual victims (primarily babies and secondarily women),
• acolytes and sacristans (clinic workers and death-escorts),
• congregations (all supporters of abortion) and
• its own unifying principle of sacramental “grace” (money).

“In short, the abortion industry is a perfect demonic system which offers a perverse form of worship to the devil.”

 

[KarenNC]

Such a sheltered life you live. wish I could be so insulated.

“Ancient abortion demon”? My goodness, we are stretching an analogy past its breaking point, aren’t we.

 

[Bennie_P]

“Ancient abortion demon”? My goodness, we are stretching an analogy past its breaking point, aren’t we.

What is a stretch is that abortion is considered a “right” not murder.

**

**Mexico

**

In 15th century Mexico the evil power behind the throne of the Aztec kingdom was a wicked high priest named Tlacaellel. He controlled the emperor Montezuma I the father of the famous Montezuma II the last emperor of the Aztecs. Tlacaellel built the grand temple in Mexico City which he dedicated to his demon gods in a four day orgy of blood and hatred in 1487. Atop the high four-sided pyramid in the center of his kingdom the Aztec priests sacrificed up to 80,000 victims of their demonic religion. Lining them up on each of the four sides as far as the eye could see, the priests cut out the hearts of their victims, ate their severed limbs, threw their bodies down the pyramid to a menagerie of wild animals waiting at the bottom to devour their flesh, and then stacked their skulls up on racks or on chains around the necks of their hideous demonic statutes in the temple. A more perfect ritualistic killing was never seen in history up to that point. The devil laughed his foul head off in amidst the blood, the stench and the gore.

For example, while the practice of human sacrifice was officially ended in that society it was still practiced clandestinely. Unable to sacrifice adults behind closed doors, the unconverted pagan priests were still sacrificing babies out of the view of the Spanish leaders to whom this practice was totally repugnant.

**

 

[KarenNC]

Yes, they wouldn’t want to offend the sensitivities of the Conquistadors, who by report held all lives as sacred, especially that of children. Wonderful examples of pro-life, then, wouldn’t you think, since the practice of sacrificing a baby (presuming such was true) was so repugnant to them? If you would like to use examples from religious sources, how about a Dominican priest, Bartolome de las Casas?

middle.usm.k12.wi.us/Faculty/markwald/handoutAtrocities.htm
Atrocities of the Spanish Conquistadors in the West Indies

c. 1513

“The Spaniards with their horses, their spears and lances, began to commit murders and other strange cruelties. They entered into towns and villages, sparing neither children nor old men and women. They ripped their bellies and cut them to pieces as if they had been slaughtering lambs in a field. They made bets with each other over who could thrust a sword into the middle of a man or who could cut off his head with one stroke. They took little ones by their heels and crushed their heads against the cliffs. Others they threw into the rivers laughing and mocking them as they tumbled into the water. They put everyone they met to the edge of the sword…In three or four months (myself being present) there died more than six thousand children, which the Spanish had sent into the Gold mines.”

Sounds a lot more like following good Biblical example, however, doesn’t it? Seems to be okay if the babies (or their mothers in the case of the pregnant women who were also slaughtered wholesale) are not Jewish (in the Bible) or Christian (as was later interpreted):

Deuteronomy 3:3-7
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Joshua11: 10-15
I Samuel 15:2-3
Joshua 8
etc.

A few Biblical examples of the great concern for the lives of all the children, especially for those who were not yet born, regardless of circumstance, those children who, according to both Jewish and Christian theology, were just as much made in the image of God as any Jewish or Christian baby.

Does killing become a “right” rather than murder when God tells you to do it?

 

[Bennie_P]

Does killing become a “right” rather than murder when God tells you to do it?

No Catholic in thier right mind would say that conquistadors were sinless, nor could not be ruthless, what is interesting though you linked to a source which quoted BARTOLOMÉ DE LAS CASAS. This priest/Bishop was a Domincan which stood up to the secular and greedy Spanairds for the rights of the Indians and against the abuse and atrocisties against them. This shows where the Church stepped up to the plate, so to say and oppossed such brutality. God was there. He used men and priest like Las Casas to tell all that would listen killing is not right even if you call yourself Christian. Las Casas worked to bring order out of disorder. The failures and sins of the conquistadors do not not take away from the horrific pre-columbian situation of human sacrifice in Central America,which would of gone unabated without the conquest of the Americas. At lest we had the Catholic Church there to step in. If you notice it is the Indians/Native Americans coming from the South that seem to be creating the current immigration “problem” in the USA. The prostestant anglos of America proper (the USA) didn’t seem to leave enough of them(Native Americans) around to create any modern problems.

Las Casas was back in the New World in 1545, this time as bishop of Chiapa and with the largest missionary contingent ever assembled: forty-five Dominican friars, and a lay staff of five.[30] It took the newly consecrated prelate almost a year to travel the five thousand miles to his faraway diocesan seat of Cuidad Real, due to a lack of funds, logistical problems, physical dangers, a boycott from colonists and conflict with Spanish authorities, all of them foretastes of worse to come.[31] His brief and stormy tenure as a resident bishop was an undertaking of little more than a year, which nearly cost him his life.[32] No doubt some of this was because of his own inflexibility, but a great deal stemmed from the blind hatred he encountered from the start in his cathedral town.[33] His life threatened and his efforts to enforce the New Laws thwarted by the local government officials, he went heavy hearted to the gathering of bishops in Mexico City. There he convinced secular authorities to respect ecclesiastical immunity and along with support from church officials produced a series of strong pro-Indian statements. He even persuaded the Viceroy to convoke a separate meeting of friars who denounced Indian slavery.

Oh, it is in America Proper (USA) where human sacrifce (abortion) has been going on unabated, costing millions upon millions of lives for over 34 years. Sacrificed to the Goddesses called Liberty and Free Choice.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Statueofliberty.JPG/288px-Statueofliberty.JPG

 

[Exsilium]

Interesting thing before the settlers came over many pagan vikings did. What they did is sacrifice people over here then go back. They even had a name for this land ameruka(could have been AMARAKA) or something along that line. It meant land of the snakes.

Kinda a scary fact.

Oh and about the goddess liberty…its said to be based on one of two goddesses. Either columbia or libertas(I believe is the correct name).

There is quite alot of paganism going around in america. Like holly wood. Hollywood is the wood pagans use to make wands.

I can go on forever connecting these things.

 

[KarenNC]

I can go on forever connecting these things.

I’m sure you can. Care to substantiate any of them?

 

[Bennie_P]

I’m sure you can. Care to substantiate any of them?

This I would like to hear about too I have never heard of any of it.

Myself I was just making a play on words and with a twist of the evil we call the French Revolution and the goddess of reason(note the statue of liberty)

Under the Convention (1792 to 1795) which proclaimed the Republic, the Revolution became anti-religious. Catholics were persecuted; many priests were slain; at one time 1500 were stabbed or clubbed to death in foul prisons. An altar was raised to the Goddess of Reason in Notre Dame, the goddess a woman of low character. Robespierre attempted to establish a cult in honor of the Supreme Being.

 

[Exsilium]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_(goddess
youtube.com/watch?v=f34fIpTwEyw
northvegr.org/lore/precolumbian/001.php (little thing on the pagans coming over here. Not sure if it goes into the sacrificing.)

The funny thing with the columbia issue is the white house is part of the district of columbia.

The correct word is amaraka for the land of the serpents. just google amaraka land of the serpents. Should find a little on it on the first links. I heard most this a while back. Same with the hollywood thing. Ill look for where I heard it all. Though I can verify one thing.

Bohemian grove is a place where many rich and powerful people go. At it they burn an effigy of a human. This is all fact bush actually goes there. Its all very interesting grove is the word pagans use quite often as a holy place. Where they burn the effigy wich they admit is in front of a horned owl. Very similar to moloch the pagan god that people sacrificed to.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove
prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/02010sacrificeobsession.htm
jonesreport.co
cremationofcare.com/images/bohemian_grove/gallery/bushes.jpgm/articles/011206_bohemian.html
jonesreport.com/articles/270607_cremation_of_care.html
(thats the effigy it was stolen recently and people photoed it.)

Videos inside the place.

During the ritual.
youtube.com/watch?v=sZD3WT3Vqa8
youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ1B38TH6k&mode=related&search=

Full video of people sneaking into it.
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1358319439993514946&q=dark+secrets+inside+bohemian+grove&total=58&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

 

[Exsilium]

libweb.sonoma.edu/regional/faculty/phillips/bohemianindex.html
sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/bohoindx.html
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3297193073974401876&q=david+gergen
sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html

 

[KarenNC]

Thanks, that gives me the proper context in which to view your remarks.

sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html

This final link actually gives a good summation of the information about the Bohemian Grove as it appears to me

“It’s an Elks Club for the rich; a fraternity party in the woods; a boy scout camp for old guys, complete with an initiation ceremony and a totem animal, the owl.”

“In fact, every person who has written seriously on the Bohemian Grove agrees: even though they provide evidence that there is a socially cohesive upper class in the United States, the activities at the Grove are harmless. The Grove encampment is a bunch of guys goofing around, drinking with their buddies, trying to relive their youth, and often acting very silly. These activities do contribute to social cohesion as an unintended consequence – which is why I decided to study the Bohemians in the first place – but the Grove is merely a playground for the powerful and their entertainers that gives us a window into a lifestyle that is far removed from that of average Americans.”

"I asked many questions of the students who were driving the tram buses around the Grove. One said the best way to understand the Grove was to imagine that the fraternity system at UC Berkeley had been moved into redwood camps; "

Its all very interesting grove is the word pagans use quite often as a holy place.

You may also want to note that “grove” is simply a description of a group of trees. Just because one has a “well” in their yard and that some religions believed in some wells were sacred to particular deities does not mean that every time one goes to get water one is practicing actual worship of those deities one may never have even heard of.

The funny thing with the columbia issue is the white house is part of the district of columbia.

shgresources.com/dc/symbols/names/
"DC stands for District of Columbia. It is called District of Columbia, because it was built on land of the Territory of Columbia, a 10 square mile piece of land, that used to be part of Virginia and Maryland. The territory of Columbia was named such after Christopher Columbus.

just google amaraka land of the serpents. Should find a little on it on the first links.

I tried, but seems hard to find anything definitive, though there seems to be a connection with Atlantis??? And something about “serpents from Mu”?

northvegr.org/lore/precolumbian/001.php (little thing on the pagans coming over here. Not sure if it goes into the sacrificing.)

It’s not exactly a secret that the Norse were in North America before the European settlers.
pc.gc.ca/lhn-nhs/nl/meadows/index_E.asp
talks about the recreated settlement L’anse aux meadows. And if they were here, they were likely making sacrifices to their Gods, just as the Native Americans were, and as any religion that incorporated sacrifice did and does wherever they were. In particular, they probably made sacrifices in thanks for surviving the sea voyage. Point? It seems unlikely they would undertake a lengthy and arduous sea voyage simply to do something here then return that they could have done just as easily at home.

There is quite alot of paganism going around in america. Like holly wood. Hollywood is the wood pagans use to make wands.

Which particular pagans would that be?

u-s-history.com/pages/h3871.html on the naming of Hollywood, California.

 

[Exsilium]

Ahh alright. You cleared up quite alot. Though the bohemian grove thing is a bit scary. Same with the columbia thing. Also the amaraka thing I cant seem to find the original source of it all. But its still truly interesting.

 

[Julianna]

America was named after Amerigo Vespucci the explorer…

source: Massachusetts Public School system circa 1963-1976.

 

[KarenNC]

Oh, and the statue on top of the Capitol dome is “Armed Freedom” not Columbia, as was indicated in one of the youtube videos you referenced.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Freedom